Comparison thread: Anti-cholinergic and GABAergic halluncinogens

[Thorns Have Roses]

To those of you who have experience with both, or only one: what, if any, differences are there between the hallucinogenic effects of anti-cholingeric drugs (dihpenhydramine, datura, etc.) and those of GABAergic hallucinogens (zolpidem, zopliclone, zalelplon, muscimol [A. muscaria], etc.)? Do they both, or one only, cause derious hallucinations, and can these hallucinations be experienced lucidly (i.e. you know you're hallucinating)? Is this phenomenon dose dependent?


In my experience with zaleplon, hallucinations were experienced perfectly lucidly, and included fantastic complete tranformations of objects, and some true hallucinations, as well as tacitile hallucinations and disturbed depth perception. From what I've heard this is not the case with anticholinergic hallucinations, but I have no interest in testing them out myself, and thus need knowledgable persons to clarify.

 

[cryptix420]

Benadryl made me talk to people that weren't there, and see spiders on my tv and walls which would disappear when I got up to try and get them. Makes me feel like I'm floating out of my own body too, but in the most unpleasant way imaginable. When you try and walk you feel like Godzilla, like DOOM - DOOM - DOOM (those are the sounds of the footsteps lol)

Ambiem just makes things....weird....but it's not too intense if you keep the dose low, and actually kinda enjoyable. Like the wall will seem like it's moving up but it's not. Hard to explain. I took an ambien and ended up snorting all my pokeballs the other night, bad idea, ended up roaming around my neighborhood and stealing flowers from 20+ yards around my neighborhood so my gf would have something nice to wake up to. Turns out a lot of the flowers had earwigs & ants inside them.


good times xD

 

[swilow]

No comparison really. I've taken scopolamine in deleriant doses, as well as datura tea several times- on the other hand, I've taken extremely high doses of zolpidem and zopiclone too.

The "Z" drugs are bereft of anxiety; the hallucinations seem to be more closed eye, but because of the extreme amnesiac effects as well as supression of frontal lobe "normal" thought patterns, its hard to tell whether the hallucinations are external or internal. I recall staring at my bedroom floor whilst on zolpidem and discovering an odd city of a type of tin soldier-people. The feeling was not one of reality, more one of goody wtf's.... I'd liken it more to salvia, but minus the terror...

The hallucinations from scopolamine (and datura, though the effects were subtly different) were undeniably real, but with such an awful clarity as to be thoughouly deceiving. The added weight of extreme anxiety (and thus adrenaline, noradrealine, glutamate) and the extreme bodily symptoms (odd heaviness, extreme vertigo, restlessness, painful eyes, inability to satiate thirst, difficultly swallowing) make the experience even more frightening.

The similarity that these types of experiences share are merely the same similarities that many hallucinogenic drugs share. The Z drugs cause a sort of amnesiac hallucinatory state (sure, you can remmember the experience, but if you couldn't, how would you know?), whislt anticholingeric intoxication brings about a true chemical delerium state, almost impossible to distinguish from fever induced delerium. Small doses of deleriant-tropanes are sort of relaxing, and mix well with ayahuasca.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Excellent, that's what I thought, but since some people write off muscimol or the z drugs' hallucinogenic effects as deliriant I wanted independent confirmation that they were indeed completely different (being as they mediated by completely different receptors, that makes sense), and that the GABAergic hallucinogens are therefore a worthwhile class of drugs to look into.

Now the only problem is that it seems some people are more susceptible to hallucinations caused by this class of drugs than others, and that persons not susceptible may have to take so large an amount to experience them (if it is not entirely impossible for them to experience them) that the amnesia and confusion might make it not worth it for them. I'll do some more experimenting with them myself next chance I get, though that may be some months from now.