Communicating with animals on psychedelics/dissociatives

[Ismene]

^What, people shoot toads? Weird.

No, I believe they insert straws in their bottoms and blow them up.

My theory

I think we should just stick to Occams razor here tho. The simplest explanation is that the toad is behaving just how it normally would but some kid has taken loads of psychedelic drugs has gone into the woods and sat down for the first time in his life and is noticing perfectly normal animal behaviour. Then, because he is high on drugs he starts to tell himself "Dude, that toad is following me around".

 

[S2K]

Actually, I think that humans do have this ability as well. It's just that most people never practice it and/or actively do not believe that it's true. But it can certainly be developed.

That's just all kinds of awesome.

 

[Ximot]

Dogs are attracted to me in general, but far more so when I'm tripping - mescaline or not.

While I was in and out of a K-Hole my parents' dog (I was dog-minding, my parents not there) lay on top of me ... for a long time. This gave me great comfort... he doesn't usually do this and luckily for me he's a small dog

While on AMT, a friend's dog really liked being stroked by folks... he was cnfused by everyone's hilarious behaviour at first, but upon being cuddled he liked the attention so much more than usual. With AMT I could literally feel the healing energy emanating from my hands (I do Reiki - a kind of hands-on healing energy work) and it seemed quite amplified... or should I say amtified

 

[Ismene]

I've noticed pet dogs behaving in a slightly different way when I'm high but I've always concluded it's just confused by you not responding to it in the way you normally do so it's simply seeking reassurance.

 

[swilow]

^No- definitely a fluctutation in your aura.

 

[Xorkoth]

I think we should just stick to Occams razor here tho. The simplest explanation is that the toad is behaving just how it normally would but some kid has taken loads of psychedelic drugs has gone into the woods and sat down for the first time in his life and is noticing perfectly normal animal behaviour. Then, because he is high on drugs he starts to tell himself "Dude, that toad is following me around".

But is it normal toad behavior (or most any wild animal behavior) to actually follow people around? Most animals will stay the fuck away from people, especially if they get close.

Ximot - I also find AMT to give a really good vibe to others, especially animals. I'll bet it's the love pouring from your eyes.

Oops, I'd better think of a scientific way to say that, or better yet, not say it at all. Ismene is in this thread...

 

[Ismene]

^No- definitely a fluctutation in your aura.

Nice one willow

 

[Ismene]

But is it normal toad behavior (or most any wild animal behavior) to actually follow people around? Most animals will stay the fuck away from people, especially if they get close.

Yeah but how seriously are we taking these reports? Would you bet me £100,000 that if someone took mescaline and walked into the woods toads would start following them?

Because I'd take a peice of that action

I'm sure there's plenty of anecdotal stories about it but there's plenty of anecdotal stories about people seeing Elvis working in the local supermarket too. I'm not sure we should take these reports at face value.

 

[Xorkoth]

No, of course not... no one ever said that mescaline turns you into a veritable animal magnet, where one could be sure enough it would happen that they'd bet 100,000 units of currency. But perhaps it increases the likelihood, by whatever means it does so? All I know is that I have had very strange experiences with animals while on psychedelics, especially AMT and mescaline.

Also, sometimes attitude can really determine the experiences you have and the types of vibes you give off to others. If you walk around in cynicism and expect everything to be bullshit, then it may very well be just that.

 

[Ismene]

Well I've noticed it with pet dogs but I don't buy the theory that "The dog knows you're tripping dude". The dog just notices you arn't responding like you usually do and is seeking reassurance that you're ok.

As for the wild animal stories I think we're in the realm of bullshit and heresay. It's like saying "How can all the stories about people seeing Elvis working in the local supermarket be bullshit?". I dunno - people are like that. Telling bullshit stories is really popular among human beings.

And I'm sure they believe it at the time - like they look round, stoned out of their mind, and see a toad and then turn around again 10 minutes later and see a toad and start thinking about it and eventually conclude "That toad is following me dude". But if they were sober they would probably conclude it was just coincidence. I don't believe there's any evolutionary advantage in amphibians being able to detect whether or not human beings are stoned from 10 yards away.

 

[Xorkoth]

I didn't really ever mean to imply that the animals know you're tripping... just that they are attracted for some reason. And the kind of experience that I'm talking about doesn't involve being stoned out of my mind and seeing a toad twice in 10 minutes whenever I decided to pay attention. I'm talking about (for example, the most recent time) a whole group of timid female deer walking right by us as if nothing was going on, one even stopped to walk near and stare at us. Or a chipmunk running up to me and standing on my foot for an extended period of time, staring up at my face.

You know how I know? Because your mom was attracted to me yesterday while I was on mescaline.

 

[Ismene]

Do you ever sit quietly in the woods when you're sober so you can compare what the deer do then?

Do you know if humans were feeing the chipmunks in that area tho? I've had squirrells run up my leg in search of food - nothing to do with whether I'm tripping or not, they simply associate humans with food. The chipmunk was probably thinking "Has this dude got any fucking chocolate chipcake or what?"

Because your mom was attracted to me yesterday while I was on mescaline.

Seeing as she died many years ago I think you must have been imagining that too Xor

 

[Xorkoth]

Oh, sorry...

The chipmunk was probably thinking "Has this dude got any fucking chocolate chipcake or what?"

Actually, I'll bet it wasn't... chipmunks don't understand or think in language. Pssht 8)

 

[Ismene]

LOL!

Nice one Xor

 

[fastandbulbous]

Do you know if humans were feeing the chipmunks in that area tho? I've had squirrells run up my leg in search of food - nothing to do with whether I'm tripping or not, they simply associate humans with food.

We know that you train small mammals to run up your legs for the sexual thrill, so don't deny it

 

[Ismene]

I'm afraid I had to move onto this form of pleasure-seeking after being arrested for having mirrors on my boots to see up ladies skirts

 

[egor]

Do you ever sit quietly in the woods when you're sober so you can compare what the deer do then?
[/ QUOTE]

I have had many an odd deer or (herd of!!) elk encounter while fly-fishing sober. It takes great (almost medititave) concentration and the ability to be exceedingly quiet and still yo be able to catch the skittish wild brown, cutthroat, and rainbow trout in my area, and this must seem a very odd behavior to any animals in the area. Still though, mescaline increases the odds of me having a random animal encounter 100x.

 

[swilow]

Ismeme, if you wanna start talking about evolutionary advantages- well whats the advantage of males having nipples? That I must know...

I find it a bit sad that you have little sense of the fantastic Ismeme; as Xorkoth said, if you believe these things, the likelihood of them happening increase. We know simple observation changes the nature of sub-atomic particles/waves/quantum. Whats to say that on a macrospcopic scale altered 'observers' could change behaviour in thusly altered subjects? And vice versa--- reductionism is useless, because it infers that what we don't know-ISN'T.

In a sense in the heightened state of Onesness attained through mescaline- these animals are you- why wouldn't they follow you; your shadow always does right? (and who knows, maybe you were following the animals). In a holographic sense they are you also, but 'viewed' from a different perspective. We know SO little about how reality truly functions that I'm inclined to think that the aspect we call tripping is more accurate, as it reveals the IMPLICATE ORDER behind things. There are laws governing the universe that are deeperthen we currently know, or maybe can- until EVERY single quirk in reality, evry ghost, psychic, yogi, Bermuda Triangle etc. can be explained, reductionism is faulty as it simply HAS to dismiss those things as untrue. Rather, they may be more true then the idea of time and space.

 

[e1evene1even]

^What, people shoot toads? Weird.

My theory- mescaline enables lower, more ancient brain functioing to increase, and that in turn causes the human to emitt a 'dormant' pheromone that is attractive to particualr animals. In fact this property coudl be shared by a lot of psychedlics. It seems that felines, canines and reptiles are the most prominent things to feature in these animal magnetisms (or at least in the visions- some report transfroming into such creatures- that could explain the enabling of a theorised and proabaly bullshit dormant pheremone emission theory)- so maybe it has to do with the active human evolved mind tapping into the older basic segments to the extent of activating them.

Or yeah, you guys could just be doing that tripping thing where everything feelis like partt of a hologram/pattern/the same. However, its interesting to note that those people who claim to be able to manipulate chakras/auras and the Like insist that deep belief in the phenonmenom is required to unveil the inherent flaws/or more truly perceptions of a hologrpahic universe- such as synchronicities, ESP, clairvoyance, precognition, remte viewing of objects through other objects- and it could be that the power of mescalin-ergic human conciousness, or rather conciousness charged mescaline, allowed you to inadvertently create a partial unravelling by altering "learned" frequency patterns of the worl; the effect was the phenomeneon of multitudes of animals bizarrely following you. The reason that such a random event could occur is because it isn't atually random, but are pieces of the enitire pattern that are more linked then others. It just appears random, or limited to animals, probably because of the substrate-mescaline..

Ismene, have a crack at that

Interesting. The chances of us ever knowing for sure one way or the other is slim, but that's a very "psychedelic" hypothesis

I wonder if any research has been done that correlates brain activity with pheromone production? I would think a monk (St. Francis Assisi for example) would project a different vibe to animals, then your regular alpha male type (more androstenone than androstenol etc.). The pheromone hypothesis makes the most sense to me. Its much more likely that animal behavior is modulated by exo-hormones (pheromones), than than some "Psi" mechanism. If they can smell fear, I'm sure they can smell love too.

When people are "in love" their brains are producing higher levels of Phenethylamine (mescaline being a substituted phenethylamine). I scanned page (from a pheromone book) discussing the relationship between PEA and the feeling of love. . The whole section is interesting, perhaps when I get time I'll OCR it and post it in the Endogenous Psychedelics thread...




(phenethylamine = phenylethylamine btw)

 

[Ismene]

Ismeme, if you wanna start talking about evolutionary advantages- well whats the advantage of males having nipples? That I must know...

I find it a bit sad that you have little sense of the fantastic Ismeme; as Xorkoth said, if you believe these things, the likelihood of them happening increase. We know simple observation changes the nature of sub-atomic particles/waves/quantum. Whats to say that on a macrospcopic scale altered 'observers' could change behaviour in thusly altered subjects? And vice versa--- reductionism is useless, because it infers that what we don't know-ISN'T.

.

I thought men had nipples because a baby initially starts with characteristics of both sex's before changing to one or the other later in the pregnancy? Isn't that why women have the clitoris?

I have a sense of the fantastic but I think just sitting the woods quietly and seeing various animals going about their buisness is fantastic enough. I think the reason these people are claiming to see lots of animals is that the only time city kids go into the woods and sit down is when they are tripping. If they went and sat quietly for hours on end while they were stone cold sober I think they'd have just as many cases of animal contact.