Comments on N,N-DMT

[mecha0man]

Having had a reliable and steady source of n,n-dmt for the past few months has allowed me to explore this remarkable substance in depth, something I have been wanting to do for a very long time. To date I have ingested DMT about 20-30 times. For the most part my experiences have been pretty typical, as defined by the majority of the literature available on the subject, i.e. classic tryptamine OEV's, intense CEV's, also some experiences where I seemed to make contact with the entities so commonly described. Out of those 20-30 trips only about 5 have been truly intense and I've only broken through completely twice. I would like to talk about those two experiences.

The first time I broke through I smoked a good amount of DMT at the peak of an LSD+mescaline trip. I was tripping with a very close and trusted friend and the set and setting could not have been more perfect. I've heard some people say that LSD reduces the anxiety that usually strikes someone before they smoke DMT and I found this to be true. The LSD and mescaline seemed to remove my pre-flight jitters, I took three very large hits without hesitation. The experience was super intense, but not scary, not at all. In fact, it was quite the opposite. I can't imagine I will ever be able to put that experience into words but I can tell you that it did re-enforce my beliefs in a benevolent, intelligent creator. It was an amazing experience, one I wouldn't trade for anything.

Now, here is where things get really confusing. Last night I decided would be an ideal time to take a DMT trip. Right now I have two different batches of DMT. One is older, and the last time I smoked from this batch I perceived a slight loss in potency. I decided to smoke from this batch again, and having THOUGHT my product had degraded a bit, I loaded up a tad more than usual.

Like I said before, I've had experiences where I've been in the presence of the so-called DMT entities and they have never been anything but wise and loving. The entity I encountered last night was wise but definitely not loving. As I was coming up I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary, usual strong DMT experience when out of nowhere I am suddenly aware of a demonic figure sitting on my head. I could feel it sitting on my head and out of my peripheral vision I can see its aura, an ugly dark gray color. My thoughts are infested with horrible imagery; death, weapons, skulls, things of that nature and I am scared, very scared. Even more scary is the fact that this evil entity seems to be deriving a huge amount of pleasure from my discomfort. The more my thoughts spiral into carnage, the worse they become, the more scared I become. Also, I would like to note that I am not prone at all to bad trips. I've had difficult moments on psychedelics but those have always given way to a beautiful experience. I'm thinking horrible thoughts, my mind state right now is the complete anti-thesis to my ideal psychedelic mind state. All of my ideas I have formed about the universe and life, all of my spiritual ideals and beliefs are being uprooted and challenged and splattered against my skull. Everything I have worked to attain through the responsible use of psychedelics is being undone at an inconceivable speed. And all the while this entity is having FUN! It is having a blast defiling my mind. So I'm sitting there in my chair, completely at the mercy of this entity when my phone starts vibrating, I got a text from my little brother. Instantly the trip turns for the better. I remember I have a brother and a fiance and a family that loves me and the positive vibes that wash over me are a welcome feeling.

Basically my question to you is, do we experience valid universal truths when we take psychedelics, namely DMT. Or do we just experience the effects of a chemical? The complete polarity of the two DMT experiences I described above have lead my to believe that we just experience the effects of a chemical. I know some of you believe otherwise and I would love to hear any and all comments or ideas. Or maybe it's like Dennis McKenna said, "We don't know shit."

 

[Ismene]

I think the DMT brings 50% to the experience and you bring the other 50%. If you were having a bad day perhaps your mind conjoured up the demon as an expression of your feelings.

And I've never seen any elves on DMT. I usually take it orally with moclobemide.

 

[RhythmSpring]

I don't think a benevolent universe and the existence of demons are mutually exclusive.

 

[Survived Abortion]

Agreed. Don't let an unsettling, traumatic, or even hellish experience shake your faith, man. Hold on to your divine spark. Don't let a confrontation dissuade you from the Holy light.

Psychedelics are not, as many folk would attribute, instant enlightenment. It takes a lifetime of devotion, and then some, to come anywhere near close to true humility and insight. Psychedelics are no different than meditation, and the two go together like peaches and cream. Tantra, audio driving, yoga, are all lifetime pursuits in the mysteries - full-time I might add. Entheogens are no shortcut, neither fake or wrong compared to natural methods; what could be more natural than our symbiotic relationship with the spirit of Mother Nature through plants. Every time we eat, we ingest their chemicals, and they speak to us. We are undergoing a "psychedelic" experience from birth to death. We are literally constantly manifesting with our mind.

The awe of sharing this life, experiencing and transmuting ideas through a fascinating array of neurochemicals finely regulated to keep our soul-body interface (mind) in concert with the Gaian (Sophian) mind to further her biological creativity and raise the Love ever higher; so that our brains may quantize the unknowable Holy Light to further our creation and our play, so we can walk our own dharma and find unconditional love in Sophia's majestic arms.

​

There are really an unknowable amount of conscious entities in the Biosphere; rather it is all one consciousness. The mindstream gets compartmentalized, and the entity forgets who it was, where it came from. And of course, just like there are some humans with malevolent ideas, so there are malevolent entities created in the mindstream. Thoughtforms, (or Tulpas in Buddhism) are manifestations of thought, made up of the substrate of the mindstream, what they call the Five Pure Lights. However, LOVE (unconditional) is one of the highest vibrational states we can be in, and nothing can touch that. Recognizing low vibrational thoughtforms is essential; you can then be aware of them, process them with the wonderful gift you have been given, and transmute them into higher vibrations of love and bliss. You will know when this is happening because you can see it through all your senses: everything looks wonderful again and your are flying on clouds.


The sudden rejection of inner knowing, of the faith that lights up your whole world inside and out, is a disease endemic to humanity via our oversized and imbalanced egos. An impatience, and ignorance toward the temporal life cycle of the biosphere. 'Devout' religious people turn atheist because there is an earthquake or tsunami, or they get cancer. It happens all the time. Why? Because if something unpleasant happens in their life, the blame goes to the creator. The "anger with god(dess)" is prevalant worldwide, and only serves to illuminate the complete over-bloated arrogance of the anthropos.


Gnostics called the creator the 'demiurge' (from Plato), and taught that he was fundamentally flawed, or blind, and so everything 'he' created was flawed. The original mythos tells us that the divine Aeon Sophia emanted her creativity without having syzergy (divine sex) with the Aeon Christos, and in so doing accidently gave birth to an evil 'demiurge' in an explosive act of abortion which created the universe as we know it. We are supposed to believe that she was ashamed of this and that the 'evil' demiurge received from his mother a throne on which he could then shape and form the Earth (a paradise already created/emanated by Sophia). And in the books: He led man astray. Eve ate from the tree of wisdom, man was born in to sin, the (d)evil always in his ear, and so on. The virgin birth of Jesus Christ by Holy Mary, an incarnation of Sophia. The Messiah incarnated in human form as Jesus Christ to bring forth righteousness, and so the story goes. Jesus' consort Mary Magdalene was labelled as a whore, and the Divine Feminine was exiled from the human conscious awareness for millenia.

Except that this is ridiculous, since the writings come from people who are flawed enough in the first place to blame their problems on a deranged god with an ego. Even worse, to relegate the Divine Feminine to the status of a shameful sinner. The divine is not flawed with narcissism and arrogance. The 'demiurge' described for millenia as the creator of our world is clearly not such. The 'demiurge' is a concept that does not describe a deity, it describes the insane attributes of humanity: our imbalanced over-bloated ego, an organic emergence from innocence in to a crooked system of memetic soundbites. Sophia is the Holy Light of wisdom and unconditional love, and she shines on forever.​

If you are familiar with sacred geometry, you will know that the perfect sphere is the divine feminine from which all other shapes and forms are given birth. The vesica pisces is the womb from which everything springs into existence, and back to where it returns. DMT, or any other psychotropic for that matter, are not simply molecules which you take and "experience the effects of the chemical". At any level, how ever far you zoom in or out, sideways, backwards, and interdimentionally, you are part of something absolutely wonderful.

 

[mecha0man]

Rhythm Spring and Abortion, you both make very good points. I am familiar with the idea of a demiurge, and that is what this entity felt like. Very much so. It's just so hard to process DMT experiences. So much is happening in such a short amount of time, and it's so intense. Abortion, that was a great post and definitely something to chew on. Thank you for your feedback. It was foolish of me to draw the conclusion that I did, that we only experience the effects of a chemical when we take a psychedelic drug. I knew better than to think that.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

What is reality? I'm not going to type an answer but all 'reality' is a chemical experience. Analogues of mescaline, DMT such as Adrenalin and serotonin control all of our perception, emotions, reactions, and a whole lot of autonomic effects.

Why is DMT 'reality' any different. DMT is an endogenous chemical in the brain and plays a couple of known roles (sigma-1, etc) in the brain. It has some role in consciousness. (speculative)

PS.

I finally IMed DMT.

I can see why in New Mexico this route was not chosen, as it does not produce an experience anything like smoking (at least at the dosage I took). What can I say except that like you, I have had access to a large supply of very pure DMT base, some of which I converted to the fumurate salt.

I smoke the base often in small dosages (20-30mg). It is 5 minutes of very intense amazing amusement and 30 minutes of pleasant afterglow, with an antidepressant effect the next day.

But IMed, at 40mg of the fum. salt with another 40mg about 20 minutes later; the experience felt like a different drug! There was much more emotion and significance. I knew all was going to be ok, I just fear change. I was listening to music and was brought to tears at the beauty of it (Beatles, LOVE) and felt the connection to the universe that is nearly always absent when I smoke it.

It has taken nearly 10 years for me to finally see DMT as a true entheogen, and not short-acting novelty. I felt no fear, in fact it washed me with warmth and love. It makes me much more calm at putting my toes in the water of ayahuasca. Before I try the real deal, I will start with isolated alkaloids.

Sorry to go OT.

 

[Ismene]

Is using the plants anymore real deal than using the isolated compounds? Apart from choking down a lot more horrendous tasting gunk and probably vomiting more painfully would there be any real difference other than placebo?

 

[Mitchi]

With Ayahuasca, one has to use a MAOi. That will alter the experience

MGS: How long was the experience?

 

[Morninggloryseed]

With Ayahuasca, one has to use a MAOi. That will alter the experience

MGS: How long was the experience?

I wasn't really looking at the clock. The LOVE album is about an hour, and I started about 15 minutes into it. I'd say about 40 minutes of full effects, but remember I took it in two spaced-apart shots. It seems that IM gives about a 20 minute peak that can be lengthened (not intensified) by taking the same dose again when the peak begins to fall.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Is using the plants anymore real deal than using the isolated compounds? Apart from choking down a lot more horrendous tasting gunk and probably vomiting more painfully would there be any real difference other than placebo?

Yes, using Caapi vine with psychotria viridis would provide a different experience than eating pure harmine then eating pure DMT. No, this is not just due to placebo. The plant compounds will change absorption/pharmacokinetics and there are going to be multiple alkaloids present that are not DMT or harmine.

Using the above-mentioned plants, purging shouldn't be too big of an issue I am also convinced that filtering well makes a big difference. If you watch ayahuasca videos, they just scoop right off the rolling boil of the pot. Were I to make ayahuasca, I would go through additional measures to clarify the brew. But why ask me, I'm one of those nuts who believes in spirits and energy, even plant spirits. I even am a registered Republican, so my answers are to be taken with a grain or two of salt.

 

[Enter Galactic]

The entities are just fucking with you. You don't have to listen to them. Also I would think LSD and mescaline might produce a very benevolent entity as opposed to just DMT.

 

[malakaix]

All of my ideas I have formed about the universe and life, all of my spiritual ideals and beliefs are being uprooted and challenged and splattered against my skull. Everything I have worked to attain through the responsible use of psychedelics is being undone at an inconceivable speed.

You were never any of this to begin with.. it's a slippery slope (especially) when the self has become identified with it's own understanding of spirituality, because it can then seem as though the divine is actually been stripped away from you, when really it's only the illusion of identification.

You are the silence within, that without thought or emotion.

Basically my question to you is, do we experience valid universal truths when we take psychedelics, namely DMT. Or do we just experience the effects of a chemical? The complete polarity of the two DMT experiences I described above have lead my to believe that we just experience the effects of a chemical. I know some of you believe otherwise and I would love to hear any and all comments or ideas. Or maybe it's like Dennis McKenna said, "We don't know shit."

Yes and No

I think DMT can confuse the realization of 'being' because it allows for such dramatic manifestations from thought and emotion, neither of which are you. But at the same time it can open up someone to the grand paradoxical nature of duality and into the presence of the infinite divine that resonates throughout all existence. The more you seek, the less you will find, it's only when you stop seeking, that all is revealed, everything's a paradox.. which is why it can be so tricky.

It's just so hard to process DMT experiences. So much is happening in such a short amount of time, and it's so intense.

It sure is, when i experienced my first break-through it took a good 6-8 months for me to integrate all of what happened; i would recommend reading into Buddhism and Integral Spirituality, i would also suggest practicing meditation and taking a break from DMT. All of this helped me to understand the experience from a more refined and trans-rational view..

 

[vegan]

And I've never seen any elves on DMT. I usually take it orally with moclobemide.

i also only see patterns on ayahuasca, but i got the "elves" on smoked dmt

if you wish to see some, try some more smoking maybe

 

[Morninggloryseed]

The more I read, the more and more convinced I am that smoked DMT is just a cosmic joke, amusement. But the DMT molecule is the spiritual molecule. I have no experience with IV but when IMed at it comes on slowly, it is a very healing psychedelic that washes over you like a wave from the ocean.

I've never felt ANYTHING like this from smoking it. Ironically the exact opposite is with 5-MeO-DMT....smoking is the only way to go to get the most...insufflation and IMing it are not useful (to me).

 

[ColtDan]

i haven't done DMT for ages, cant get hold of anymore and got loads of people interested in trying it... argh. its so fucking beautiful, i need to get some more

 

[Ismene]

i also only see patterns on ayahuasca, but i got the "elves" on smoked dmt

if you wish to see some, try some more smoking maybe

I find that if I let my mind wander with my eyes closed then I can conjour up elves. But if I think "Are these really elves or am I just imagining it cos I read terence mckenna? They quickly vanish.

 

[Ismene]

Yes, using Caapi vine with psychotria viridis would provide a different experience than eating pure harmine then eating pure DMT. No, this is not just due to placebo.

How sure can you be tho?

The plant compounds will change absorption/pharmacokinetics and there are going to be multiple alkaloids present that are not DMT or harmine.

Are any of the multiple alkaloids either powerful enough, or active enough, in the human body to overwhelm the effects of DMT? DMT is a pretty powerful psychedelic - I can't think of many other alkaloids so powerful that the human brain would notice them while being battered by DMT.

To be honest I'm struggling to think of any drug known to man that is so powerful it would overwhelm the effects of DMT. I'm not convinced 100% pure heroin or cocaine would have that much of a chance at overwhelming DMT. Never mind some trace alkaloid in a plant.

 

[Addam]

I wasn't really looking at the clock. The LOVE album is about an hour, and I started about 15 minutes into it. I'd say about 40 minutes of full effects, but remember I took it in two spaced-apart shots. It seems that IM gives about a 20 minute peak that can be lengthened (not intensified) by taking the same dose again when the peak begins to fall.

Just a couple weeks ago I IM'ed 100mg of DMT fumarate. Absolute bliss and euphoria. I laughed hysterically through the duration of it, about an hour and a half. But it did put me in a breakthrough state for a period of time (I can't even say how long). Perhaps I'll have to post about it in more depth in its respective thread as there was next to no info on that ROA regarding dosage and expected effects.