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Mental Health Coming Off Vraylar (cariprazine), Rexulti (brexpiprazole), or Abilify (aripiprazole)

plumbus-nine said:
Because the doc liked it, I guess :( I have neither of said disorders either and wasn't just on one but oh almost all of the antipsychotics. Edit: Yeah, add-in treatment resistant and it makes sense.
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Doc prolly got a nice kickback for it, i'm sure. lol

I'm weary of when doctors come at me about new 'brand name' meds out that they want me to try.

I've refused AP's and don't really respond to SSRI's.


I don't hear or see things, I don't have delusions (usually) and never have any mania (I wish I did, I could use the energy!), but I imagine people who don't truly need these meds get thrown on them all the time. Especially those who are uneducated about what they really are or how they work.
 
That said, cariprazine was one of the least worse out of all, it "just" did cause brain fog but no dyskinesia or related stuff. The partial agonists are a step into the right direction but they should abandon dopamine altogether, as I read recently there's now a TAAR agonist in the pipeline. We need dopamine to feel good.

Antipysychotics are just toxic shit and the SSRIs, well, I am hooked on them for a two digit number of years now and see no hope. I switched back and forth but just can't quit without severe depression.
 
I hate that they think they're going to "cure" everyone of their depression with a single pill. It's impossible.

And with some of the intellectual and mental/emotionally flattening side effects of these drugs, I'm not sure which is worse. But I think I'd almost rather be depressed than feel that way all the time.

I get good depression relief from opioids, cannabis and mild stimulants, which all cause less gross side effects than all these psychiatric drugs.
 
Oh, hypomania is actually nice. If you're lucky you get it from some arylcyclohexylamine dissociative.

It's not just the docs but approval guidelines tell them they need to have a one pill fits all sort of thingy. Opioids work until they wreck up your hormones, been there, done that and stims are somehow similar in that they don't tend to last but I don't get who abandoned stims for psychiatry, they work better than what we have now.
 
plumbus-nine said:
Oh, hypomania is actually nice. If you're lucky you get it from some arylcyclohexylamine dissociative.

It's not just the docs but approval guidelines tell them they need to have a one pill fits all sort of thingy. Opioids work until they wreck up your hormones, been there, done that and stims are somehow similar in that they don't tend to last but I don't get who abandoned stims for psychiatry, they work better than what we have now.
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I've surprisingly been on bupe about 5 years & have normal testosterone. Although bupe is it's own beast and loses effectiveness, plus can make things worse with it's long ass half life.

I think i've been manic once in my life. After a breakup. I went pretty crazy. Stopped eating & sleeping really and just partied like crazy. But it died down after awhile. Doctors seem to think I must be 'bipolar' if that happened, but I'd say 1 episode of acute mania (within 30+ years) is hardly enough IMO to label some one "bipolar". It's only natural to go crazy after something like that after all anyway. ;)

I have plenty experience with all kinds of drugs & it's amazing to me that I know what works, but society would rather have me on gunk like vraylar than deal with the possibility that I might have the side effect of "feelings of well being" from my meds. Can't have that. They want joy-less, obedient factory drones.
 
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DeathIndustrial88 said:
think i've been manic once in my life. After a breakup. I went pretty crazy. Stopped eating & sleeping really and just partied like crazy. But it died down after awhile. Doctors seem to think I must be 'bipolar' if that happened, but I'd say 1 episode of acute mania is not enough IMO to label some one "bipolar". It's only natural to go crazy after something like that after all anyway. ;)
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Similar here!! I thought it had to be some weird RC interaction which made me truly manic but it might as well just have been the breakup. Sometimes these things don't work as expected. Oh and I was on memantine, that shrink decided not being able to continue prescription for it and put me on sodium valproate, with which the diagnosis was set in stone.

Partial agonist opioids seem to be less harsh on testosterone but also the reference levels are said to be too low. Technically I'm not below them but my body, and libido, are fucked up ever since bupe and then morphine.
 
plumbus-nine said:
Similar here!! I thought it had to be some weird RC interaction which made me truly manic but it might as well just have been the breakup. Sometimes these things don't work as expected. Oh and I was on memantine, that shrink decided not being able to continue prescription for it and put me on sodium valproate, with which the diagnosis was set in stone.
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I was doing lots of DXM around this period too and had some really life-changing experiences.

I think it was the break up + dxm combo that maybe did it. But mostly the break up. lol I had a good time though and met lots of people. Wish I could bring myself to that again. I was also in my 20's at the time, so who knows.

Never had a chance to try memantine.
 
Fuck that's a lot of similarities here! I was doing too many dissociatives anyways, methoxetamine back then but DXM too, and they certainly turned me from a socially awkward person into somebody actually enjoying interaction. Was in my early 20s as well.
 
plumbus-nine said:
Fuck that's a lot of similarities here! I was doing too many dissociatives anyways, methoxetamine back then but DXM too, and they certainly turned me from a socially awkward person into somebody actually enjoying interaction. Was in my early 20s as well.
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How would you compare DXM to other dissos? I've never had a chance to try ketamine or any of the research chems/dark net type of dissos & have always wondered.

DXM seemed like it had all kinds of different types of trips depending on your dosage, what you ate that day, etc..

There were a handful of times I reached a "state" out of hundreds and hundreds of times I've used DXM and in these handful of times, it felt like I left my body.
It felt like all my organs were shutting down and all I could feel was a weird sensation deep down in the bottom of my stomach, almost by my spine. Almost like my "soul" was watching myself from a distance and I was watching my life "come to an end" like a movie. All I could do was sit on my couch the first time it happened and have my mom remind me over & over again that I wasn't dying.

It tended to only happen when I'd mix high-dose dxm with a bunch of cannabis, but the trip would change from a fun euphoric, confused & trippy to full blown what felt like "near death experiences". It's so subjective that it's hard to explain. I've "died" and "come back" on DXM so many times and in so many different ways. Always wondered what it was about the DXM/Cannabis interaction that completely changed the trip into something else. And have always wondered what other dissos must be like in comparison.


Maybe Im just a nutcase as well, but I found DXM had "paranormal" properties. Strange things would happen on it. Even had a shared hallucination with my mom once (who was not a DXM user, other than for it's intended purpose lol) and even seemed to be able to change my reality at the time (became very popular, wasn't sure why, people were always looking for me, wanting to party with me, etc... I miss those days). It was very 'enlightening'. I still revisit DXM once in awhile for some of this "enlightenment", it's different now and life is different now, but it's still a very interesting chemical.

Cheers plumbus! :)
 
DeathIndustrial88 said:
How would you compare DXM to other dissos? I've never had a chance to try ketamine or any of the research chems/dark net type of dissos & have always wondered.
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Difficult to say because dissociatives (NMDA antagonists) as such already are a broad spectrum. Probably you'll have heard of the plateaus of DXM and that they are attributed to different receptors/systems but I and some people found this to be not the complete truth; all dissociatives exhibit all the plateaus, just to varying degrees. The clearest distinction maybe is that DXM is also a powerful SNRI, while some of the other dissos are NDRI/triple reuptake inhibitors but that also doesn't cut it. I found DXM to possess very weird psychotomimetic (psychosis mimic) features which also were attributed to NMDA - we have this theory of NMDAr hypofunction being responsible for schizophrenia, and while there might be a possibility that some of this is true, for me it doesn't fit because DXM and DXM alone induced so-called positive symptoms in me (hearing voices to be specific) while more potent, PCP-based dissociatives didn't do that. A friend suspect it might have to do with receptor sigma (subtype 1 or 2) but that one's weird, we have agonists and antagonists under approved drugs which aren't psychotomimetic and the selective agonists noscapine and pentoxyverine did nothing at all for me in severe overdose.

DXM is dirty. Dirty as in that it his many receptors, but also dirty as in dirty feeling. Every now and then sombody brings this topic up, the most recent occurance was "sinister dextromethorphan" about the sinister vibes which come with this molecule and some speculate that, according to the NMDAr hypofunction stuff, this is an inherent property of dissociatives but I doubt it. Also, the only reason we see K used as an antidepressant nowadays isn't because it would be super good at it but because the approval work was already done, and it's the only dissociative currently approved at all (besides memantine, this is a weird one too, its almost world wide only approbation is for Alzheimer's, where it is of questionable efficacy while the effect against opioid/stim tolerance is well established but seldomly used).

There were a handful of times I reached a "state" out of hundreds and hundreds of times I've used DXM and in these handful of times, it felt like I left my body.
It felt like all my organs were shutting down and all I could feel was a weird sensation deep down in the bottom of my stomach, almost by my spine.
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Remarkable. I never ever managed to catch a true "hole" type experience off any dissociative, while some people seem to be able to get it readily. There's definitely the need for more research (as in real, scientific research as well as research done by us research chemical users). I left my body, at least the sensation of it, quite some times but I never went though hole type paranormal stuff and mostly I would just pass out, going from "plateau 2:" to full anesthesia without any transition. This led me to thinking that I could have over-active NMDA receptors but it's a plain guess. At least the anesthetic effects of ketamine seem not to be dissociative based while dissociation certainly is anesthetic and analgesic - etc.

Some times I would drift away from my body though, and sometimes this was a pretty wild ride and stuff which doctors would certainly count as out of body experiences, but to me there was the real "heck-I-just-forgot-my-body" lacking. It always was conscious.

I was always interested in out of body experiences and paranormal stuff, and the possibility to experience such things with next to no physical danger on dissociatives appealed to me but I can't get there readily. Some people get a full out of body experience the first time they try K. But then we have to question what is a real out of body experience - is it losing sense, touch, control, remembrance of/with your body? But remarkable that you associate the remaining .. point.. of body with this position down the bottom of stomach and not, as one could imagine, the brain/eyes etc. I had some similar experiences but they remain too far and non-specific to really grasp them. Maybe I should have used more THC, this indeed seems to greatly potentiate psychedelic as well as dissociative experiences but to me THC alone is very dysphoric so I stood clear of it.

Dissociative + DMT (which seems to be dissociative on its own) is on my list though, pretty high on top if I could find the right people and substances. Also strangely has been shown to mitigate excitotoxicity. DMT containing trees are abundant here so that's not the problem.

Did you read the full DXM FAQ by W. White? He wrote a full chapter about paranormal experiences on DXM, and some of them are linked to temporal lobe abnormalities. Which answers next to nothing of course. Somehow I love the thought that not everything of psychedelic/paranormal/spiritual experiences can be explained purely by a neurochemical model because this leaves room for some weird trippy sci-fi fantasy stuff but I also like to know what's possible and going on.. we definitely need more research.
 
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plumbus-nine said:
Difficult to say because dissociatives (NMDA antagonists) as such already are a broad spectrum. Probably you'll have heard of the plateaus of DXM and that they are attributed to different receptors/systems but I and some people found this to be not the complete truth; all dissociatives exhibit all the plateaus, just to varying degrees. The clearest distinction maybe is that DXM is also a powerful SNRI, while some of the other dissos are NDRI/triple reuptake inhibitors but that also doesn't cut it. I found DXM to possess very weird psychotomimetic (psychosis mimic) features which also were attributed to NMDA - we have this theory of NMDAr hypofunction being responsible for schizophrenia, and while there might be a possibility that some of this is true, for me it doesn't fit because DXM and DXM alone induced so-called positive symptoms in me (hearing voices to be specific) while more potent, PCP-based dissociatives didn't do that. A friend suspect it might have to do with receptor sigma (subtype 1 or 2) but that one's weird, we have agonists and antagonists under approved drugs which aren't psychotomimetic and the selective agonists noscapine and pentoxyverine did nothing at all for me in severe overdose.

DXM is dirty. Dirty as in that it his many receptors, but also dirty as in dirty feeling. Every now and then sombody brings this topic up, the most recent occurance was "sinister dextromethorphan" about the sinister vibes which come with this molecule and some speculate that, according to the NMDAr hypofunction stuff, this is an inherent property of dissociatives but I doubt it. Also, the only reason we see K used as an antidepressant nowadays isn't because it would be super good at it but because the approval work was already done, and it's the only dissociative currently approved at all (besides memantine, this is a weird one too, its almost world wide only approbation is for Alzheimer's, where it is of questionable efficacy while the effect against opioid/stim tolerance is well established but seldomly used).


Remarkable. I never ever managed to catch a true "hole" type experience off any dissociative, while some people seem to be able to get it readily. There's definitely the need for more research (as in real, scientific research as well as research done by us research chemical users). I left my body, at least the sensation of it, quite some times but I never went though hole type paranormal stuff and mostly I would just pass out, going from "plateau 2:" to full anesthesia without any transition. This led me to thinking that I could have over-active NMDA receptors but it's a plain guess. At least the anesthetic effects of ketamine seem not to be dissociative based while dissociation certainly is anesthetic and analgesic - etc.

Some times I would drift away from my body though, and sometimes this was a pretty wild ride and stuff which doctors would certainly count as out of body experiences, but to me there was the real "heck-I-just-forgot-my-body" lacking. It always was conscious.

I was always interested in out of body experiences and paranormal stuff, and the possibility to experience such things with next to no physical danger on dissociatives appealed to me but I can't get there readily. Some people get a full out of body experience the first time they try K. But then we have to question what is a real out of body experience - is it losing sense, touch, control, remembrance of/with your body? But remarkable that you associate the remaining .. point.. of body with this position down the bottom of stomach and not, as one could imagine, the brain/eyes etc. I had some similar experiences but they remain too far and non-specific to really grasp them. Maybe I should have used more THC, this indeed seems to greatly potentiate psychedelic as well as dissociative experiences but to me THC alone is very dysphoric so I stood clear of it.

Dissociative + DMT (which seems to be dissociative on its own) is on my list though, pretty high on top if I could find the right people and substances. Also strangely has been shown to mitigate excitotoxicity. DMT containing trees are abundant here so that's not the problem.

Did you read the full DXM FAQ by W. White? He wrote a full chapter about paranormal experiences on DXM, and some of them are linked to temporal lobe abnormalities. Which answers next to nothing of course. Somehow I love the thought that not everything of psychedelic/paranormal/spiritual experiences can be explained purely by a neurochemical model because this leaves room for some weird trippy sci-fi fantasy stuff but I also like to know what's possible and going on.. we definitely need more research.
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Oh wow! You are definitely a very experienced and knowledgeable person!! Great speaking with you!

I could absolutely see DXM triggering psychosis and the like. Pretty sure it made me quite delusional on it, but I almost enjoyed the delusional feeling, as it was unique compared to every day boring 'adult' life. lol

DXM is absolutely a dirty feeling though. That SNRI-like effect can change the whole trip from a bugged out stimulating experience, to a dysphoric and sedated experience. DXM's "high" has so many variables. So you never quite know what you're gonna get.


I was curious because I had heard of "K-holes" before and they sounded very similar to these strange "trips" I occasionally got on high dose-DXM & cannabis. It was like I became completely disconnected from my body entirely. It was such a strange experience that I still have very few words on how to explain or describe the sensations, thoughts & everything that was happening.

Most of my DXM trips were just like being thrown into an electric blender and having all my thoughts completely disorganized. Some times had CEV's. And music was intense and very colorful. But those "out of body" experiences were totally something else. I got pretty scared when they happened because I was scared I was gonna get stuck like that forever (or that I was actually dying and needed to go to the hospital). But every single time, I'd eventually come down and go "back to normal" and I would feel so refreshed. Like a life changing event. Knowing I experienced that and came out the other side to still talk about it was a very uplifting experience in and of itself. :)

THC seems to potentiate everything for me. I've been smoking cannabis or some form of thc for 20 years. It does trigger my anxiety some times, but I've been smoking so long that I've learned how to handle it and just go with it. THC can turn a boring lackluster opioid into a decent painkiller and euphoriant.

I have read the DXM FAQ's!! :) It's a very interesting read.
One time me and my mom went out around midnight on a dark dreary night to get cigarettes. And on the way back home, I was gazing out the window and enjoying my trip when I thought I saw a giant boulder just sitting in the middle of one of the side streets in town. I thought I was just seeing shit until my mom said "did you see that?" and I said "what" and she said "it looked like there was a boulder in the middle of the road!"... I was like no fucking way!!! lol So we actually turned around and drove back passed the road and there was absolutely nothing there.

My mom had COPD and smoked cigarettes like crazy & often would take DXM to stop her cough. I wonder if somehow we "connected" that night. I was on a high dose and I think she had taken a small dose for her cough.

I've had other experiences with friends who weren't on DXM but would hang out with me while I was on it and weird & strange things would happen. lol It got to the point where when anything out of the ordinary would happen, my friend would ask me if I had been doing DXM. haha

It is certainly an interesting molecule and needs more research.
I'm not sure about other dissociatives but DXM gives me a "dark" feeling. Stuff like shrooms & LSD always gave me a bright colorful feeling. So I tend to think of psychedelics as showing you the light where as dissassociatives show you death & the darkness. I wish I would have been able to experience other disso's like K or PCP growing up, but never had the chance. Not sure how well I'd handle them now that I'm older. lol But I still get nostalgic for DXM trips I had. Especially when I'd hang out with my mom (she recently passed away back on Mothers day this year unexpectedly).
 
Vraylar does some weird things to the energy body.

Sometimes I'll be out walking and my body is obviously just going with the motions of walking but Vraylar can make my energy body feel like it's doing cartwheels and falling over and getting hit by cars and rolling under buses, all while I'm just trying to mind myself and where I'm going.
 
iridescentblack said:
Vraylar does some weird things to the energy body.

Sometimes I'll be out walking and my body is obviously just going with the motions of walking but Vraylar can make my energy body feel like it's doing cartwheels and falling over and getting hit by cars and rolling under buses, all while I'm just trying to mind myself and where I'm going.
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My coordination was very difficult on it. What you describe sounds like a familiar sensation I had. It was almost like vertigo, but different. I felt like I was all over the place in terms of my physical & spiritual body.

I started having spasms in my right eye area / eyelid while on it and they still persist to this day even after being off of it now for almost 2 weeks. It's not a huge bother at the moment, but considering I already have myoclonic jerks of unknown origin, I'd say it's almost like the poisons these institutions throw at us are just messing me up more and creating more "problems" for them to "fix"..
 
DeathIndustrial88 said:
I'd say it's almost like the poisons these institutions throw at us are just messing me up more and creating more "problems" for them to "fix"..
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I often feel similar and I know that not all psychiatrists want to act in this fashion. I consider myself rather fortunate, or proud, in that I am able to go above and beyond despite these hardships.

At times I wanted vengeance, but I was also not myself at the time. Coming off vraylar has made me see that a lot of my strong opinions of people I had prior to being on such medications were actually (though validated by my own intuition) pretty sound considering. My biggest issue with these drugs is and always has been that they have robbed me of the intuition to know better.

But the argument that pharmacies take away pscyhic powers has been going on for decades and isn't holding ground. Though the struggle is a bit of a double-bind, we're left to work through things in our own way.

One of my best friends - who I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact I may never see again - I always felt was way better off meds, but because of the stigma (he's also a felon), he's forced to comply with things or risk being homeless. Sadly he eventually chose the former. But I respect that choice, because that's always who he was, independent, strong, and able-bodied.
 
Today marks my biggest stride in my recovery from Vraylar.

A large amount of pressure, built up on my right side, suddenly released while I was out driving and the result was phenomenal, considering. My energy now moves normally. No more of that "twisting rebar" feeling in my back.

Ever since about 6 months or so off vraylar, my thoughts have been pretty bizarre, up to the point I even began hearing voices (which I've never experienced before including off drugs). It seems that every thought I would think would consequence me severely, even it if was positive. I fucking hate this drug, but at least that part of me is almost fixed.
 
iridescentblack said:
Today marks my biggest stride in my recovery from Vraylar.

A large amount of pressure, built up on my right side, suddenly released while I was out driving and the result was phenomenal, considering. My energy now moves normally. No more of that "twisting rebar" feeling in my back.

Ever since about 6 months or so off vraylar, my thoughts have been pretty bizarre, up to the point I even began hearing voices (which I've never experienced before including off drugs). It seems that every thought I would think would consequence me severely, even it if was positive. I fucking hate this drug, but at least that part of me is almost fixed.
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Thank you for the update mate. It's great to hear you're improving, and I hope it continues that way <3
 
Finally, it seems I can think even streams of thought without the proverbial negative consequences.

Next step seems to align my energy body with my physical one again. I really hope it works out.
 
I don't suppose this thread will get much attention soon.

My daydreams have been severely reduced.

Starting as soon as I was finally starting to come off Invega Sustenna, my daydreams became a major part of my life, severely impacting me in every way. I never figured out what the correlation was between coming off AP's and daydreaming, or if there was any. Vraylar effectively just served as a sepulcher to continue what daydreaming neurons and synapses that were still available for the process... which I absolutely was not a fan of at all. The worse my daydreams got, the more enthralled I became about other people having them at the same time as me. As weird as it sounds. I embarrassed myself a few times believing this.

Not that any doctor would think light of the matter. I so far haven't met one. This will almost conclude my journey in coming off AP's altogether. Since my latest psychiatrist, like all the rest, have decided to kick me to the curb (all of them for varying reasons), I am somewhat anxious but not fearful about a life without AP's.
 
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