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Coming off Invega/Xeplion (paliperidone) injections v11

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cloudflare said:
Not sure why but the past 2 days have been particularly hard. After the amazing mental clarity window I felt on day 74, it was just constant/very frequent brain fog, cognitive issue, painful nostalgic memories and sleep problems. I keep waking up at night and find it hard to go back to sleep.
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do you still have it?
 
deathbypsychiatry said:
Good to only have had the loading and 1 other dose. Assuming it was sustenna.
If your asking about serum levels, peak levels may have been a week or two after the second shot, and maybe serum levels could be under %50 of peak, likely around 25%.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ed-150-mg-PP1M-and-simulations_fig4_337279543
Mean-Plasma-Paliperidone-PK-Profile-following-Deltoid-Muscle-Administration-of-150-mg.png

Then again if you are asking about the drug being in you body, after a single dose the release of the drug can continue for 126 days. So for another 2 months. Only small amounts though & serum levels will continue to fall. After 2 months it should be completely cleared from the system in under a week.
Most of it is already released and processed. Receptor occupancy should be well below "therapeutic levels".
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does this explain why my symptoms in some worse have gotten worse and I developed new symptoms?
 
twinpeaks123 said:
my anxiety seems to have become worse
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If you can, do acupuncture. I really feel like things started to turn around for me with the acupuncture sessions I did. You can’t just do one or two sessions though… the Chinese guy I went to recommended I do 6-8 sessions so I done 6 and it made such a difference. Best natural remedy for anxiety for sure. Otherwise you can try herbal teas, valerian root is amazing for anxiety just don’t over do it. Passionflower is good too & L-theanine is a good supplement to use if you have anxiety.
 
deathbypsychiatry said:
I find SSRIs to be more of an anxiolytic than an antidepressant, Have you ever used SSRIs? If so what was your experience with them? Did they cause discontinuation syndrome or negative side effects? Some people find them very tolerable but for some people they can be harmful. A safer & more natural option might be supplementing 50-100mg 3x daily 5-HTP to boost serotonin production to alleviate anxiety. You still have to consider seretonin syndrome & medication combinations with 5-HTP but it's not associated with any of the other risks of SSRIs. I don't really know how it works but activation of 5-HT1A receptors may be the ones that are responsible for serotonins anxyolitic effects and invegas occupancy of them should be minimal 0-5%.
Benzos aren't blocked by invega either. No gabagenic is. These aren't really good solutions for anxiety other than short term use even then they can cause a worse rebound anxiety on cessation, you could ask your doctor if they would be willing to perscribe you any though. Maybe you could try L-theanine, Ashwagandha, Valerian (particularly if it occurs at night) or other more natural options.
Low magnesium can cause anxiety and some people find magnesium helps even if you don't have low magnesium.
St johns wort is similar to SSRIs too. I find st johns wort tea to be quite relaxing. It won't help lower invega levels because hyperforin content is non-existent. It's more about the ritual & than the compounds in it. Chamomile would be a stronger anxiolytic but still only mild. Even plain old green tea contains L-theanine only 20-40mg a cup but it's more just finding the experience calming.
You can even trying just identifying and reframing anxious thoughts & developing coping skills. they call it CBT when a therapist does it, I call it gaslighting. It sounds silly but why would i see a therapist for that when i could just gaslight myself instead and not have to leave the house.
I've found that breathing excercises can actually be really helpful, particularly leaning how to use breathing to lower heart rate. again it sounds silly but it really has saved me a couple of times.
Overall it's really worth looking into lifestyle, behavioral & cognitive approaches rather than using medications or even supplements.
excercise is also apparantly good to reduce anxiety, now energy levels can be a big challenge on invega but you could try and see how you go. There's yoga or pilates or even aerobics which may be better suggestions than running or cycling, really its just up to what you want to do, what you would find helpful, worthwhile and maybe even enjoyable, you could start small and set yourself goals to work towards. Some people really get into it. Apparantly "runners high" is just the brain releasing Anandamide & 2-Arachidonoylglycerol which are endocannabinoids. Also even weeding the garden for 30 minutes counts as moderate excercise and is a lot less strenious than most exercise. Yoga increases GABA and would be very good for reducing anxiety without too much energy expenditure. Going for a 30 minute walk every day while it may not have the same benefits as moderate exercise can be really good for mental wellbeing.
So Invega shouldn't negatively impair any of these approaches towards treating anxiety other than excercise because of energy levels

"Serum levels will continue to decline in the mean time & you may have less side effects which may or may not be related to the lower serum levels, some symptoms may resolve before elimination & some may linger after elimination. Some symptoms might not be caused by the drugs, like risperconstas tinnitus. There will better days and worse days. steps toward recovery are possible even while it's still active. Try to be kind to yourself. You don't need to push yourself to be %100 recovered especially while it's still in your system. You just need to get through today. If you look at it like that it might become a little easier to deal with. What symptoms are you finding concering? Are there ways these to address or treat these before elimination? Are there times when they are better or worse?"
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I took ssris but stopped them because they can give you pssd
 
my depot finishes in 5-6 months

i'm planning to cease paliperidone when my CTO finishes.

on average how many months-years does it take to recover 80% from this chemical harness?
 
snri is more effective in conjunction with paliperidone, such as pristiq, i convinced my dr to up my dose to 100mg, better than nothin i say.
 
twinpeaks123 said:
did you take sustenna?
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i was put on a community treatment order by one of my psychiatrists, for a year.

every month i get a shot of 50mg of sustenna.

if they want to put me on another one i am absconding interstate, i need sobriety to get my life in order. srsly.
 
deathbypsychiatry said:
No it doesn't. I was wrong about receptor occupancy & therapeutic levels, I'm researching/modelling on the fly and was trying to give you an answer but got some stuff wrong.
If peak serum was 50-60 ng/ml and serum levels are %25 of peak they would still be 6-7.5 ng/ml and that could be 70% occupancy. "Therapeutic" window is 3.5-50 ng/ml. Which means that it will continue to be at "therapeutic" levels for the next 2 months but after that it should be completely out of your body & blood in a week. I think that is better modelling.

Serum levels will continue to decline in the mean time & you may have less side effects which may or may not be related to the lower serum levels, some symptoms may resolve before elimination & some may linger after elimination. Some symptoms might not be caused by the drugs, like risperconstas tinnitus. There will better days and worse days. steps toward recovery are possible even while it's still active. Try to be kind to yourself. You don't need to push yourself to be %100 recovered especially while it's still in your system. You just need to get through today. If you look at it like that it might become a little easier to deal with. What symptoms are you finding concering? Are there ways these to address or treat these before elimination? Are there times when they are better or worse?

"Typically drug clearance rates are calculated as a 50% reduction in serum levels for each half life for 5 half lives at which point they are considered eliminated. Fortunately this isn't the case for Invega sustenna, as although it is said to have a half life of around 40 days on average and up to 46 days (which would mean 200-230 days until elimination) it is an intramuscular injection that uses a nanocrystal suspension to gradually release paliperidone into the blood stream for up to 126 days after the last injection and the reported half-life is about absorption from the depot and not true elimination. A better way of estimating clearance is to look at studies that chart the serum levels following the last injection, but in doing this we find that even a single loading dose without any follow up doses maintains levels of over 3.5 ng/ml for 126 days which maintains a receptor occupancy of 60% and is within what the manufacturer calls the "therapeutic window" which I would argue is not the right terminology. Realizing this fact we can simply use the formula of 126 days + 5x the half life of paliperidone to calculate clearance. Given the half life of paliperidone is about a day this results in the simple equation of 126+5 = 131 days from last injection to elimination."
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Yeah let’s blame omamua asteroid or the other one 3I Atlas for my tinnitus instead of the neurotoxic poison they inject me with.

We can also blame Nicolas Maduro from Venezuela or the Ayatollah Regime in Iran for my tinnitus if we want.
 
deathbypsychiatry said:
You have a private psychiatrist? How'd they rope you into CTO & Invega shots?
Absconding interstate used to seem like an escape but if you miss appointments on CTO they put you on missing persons.

131 days after the last injection and it should be out of your system. Using it for a year is sketch as though.
This is purely speculative but there's likely to be some functional adaptions, unregulated dopamine receptors with a 30% of dopamine super sensitivity psychosis. So stay away from anything that increases dopamine & keeps you awake for at least 10 months after the last dose, high risk of hospitalization, malicious diagnosis & treatment order with abilify injections. Regardless use will prevent and set back recovery & brain normalization.
Likely 12 months after last dose if you remain drug free you will be fully recovered, maybe 24 months.
That's just speculative, I don't know.
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i stupidly told them i missed some lithium doses, and they framed that as me not being medication compliant to the tribunal

half a year is a good timeline. year + is too much. ta
 
@deathbypsychiatry

private pdoc, is not really in my budget atm, if my gp thinks i need to see a good psychiatrist, i'll splurge with my rents on it.

i receive free psychiatry from junior psychiatrists of the state, this is in australia a semi socialist system.
 
Since they bombed out nervous system with a neurotoxin, blaming neurological-sympthoms to nonsense things outside the poisonous toxin thei gave us, it’s like blaming a hearthquake for the collapsint of the twin towers back in 9/11/2001.
 
deathbypsychiatry said:
Might recover in 6 months. I don't know. 12-24 is the worst case scenario. I was catostrophising. You'll probably be fine as soon as it leaves your system. Sorry for being so pessimistic.

Tribunals are brutal, really nasty. Is it a 3 person jury rigged against you where you are? here it's 2 people in positions of power abusing their power & dunking on you with 1 "community member" that's upper class and doesn't get it.
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i didn't realise i was sposed to hire a lawyer who specialises in mental health disability advocacy

fk me i guess! XD
 
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