Coming off 1 year .5 insuffulated Herion addicted. Using subs (HELP PLEASE)

[Bhall99]

First of all. This will by my second time quitting. The last time, I didn't have the hard of a time at all, but I was only dosing 1x per day at night. I was doing about .3-.5g snorting per night. Now my habbit has increased and I have been doing about .5-1g snorting per day, usually splitting it in the morning and then evening. I have got my hands on some subxone 6x 8mg pills, I want to do a short/medium length taper. I also have 6 bags of H left... I was wondering if I should continue to use those and taper it to a bag a day, then jump off and start the suboxone about 24 hrs after last dosage... I was thinking about doing it like this.. Day 1: 3 bags Day 2: 2 bags day 3: 1 bag. Then jump to subxone. Any tips or considerations will greatly appreciated. I will not judge anyone's experiences and everything is appreciated.

That schedule I was thinking to do
Day 1: 8mg
Day 2: 6mg
Day 3: 6mg
Day 4: 4mg
Day 5: 4mg
Day 6: 2mg
Day 7: 2mg
Day 8: 1mg
Day 9: 1mg
Day 10: .75
Day 11. .50
Day 12. .50
Day 13. 25
Day 14 .25 Then completing jump off... What do you think about my thought process and how I should go about taping the suboxone?

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Moving to other drugs.

 

[smackydowners]

i dont think you'll need to start on 8mg sub coming off your habit.

i'd wait until your in withdrawals, then try snorting 4mg bupe and see where that gets you. if youre not better in an hour then try another 2mg and so on. i doubt you'l need more than 4mg though. depending on how strong your H was, of course.

 

[smackydowners]

your plan does look okay though.

BUT, if it's only your second time quitting, you still shouldnt have that bad a time of withdrawing. maybe you could cold turkey if you dont have to work or whatever?? making this taper plan could be the latent addict in you just putting things off

EDIT: just realised you've been using for a year solid! yeah, your plan actually looks great knowing this. you may need to wait longer than 24 hours to do the sub, though. you could try 36 hours to be sure or just wait till youre in full-on, shit-your-pants withdrawals.

 

[Phil.McKeer]

Looks good man. I'm a big proponent of the rapid bupe taper detox and what you have listedlooks a lot like what I'd do. You may not need to use 6 and 4 mg's two days in a row, FYI. Remember that bupe's elimination half-life is looooong so that 8mg you took on day 1 will largely still be active. I think you can safely go 8-6-4-3-2-1 etc.

Also, to concur with Smacky, bupe is a powerful beast. If you have subutex and plan on crushing/snorting, do small amounts at a time (I usually do my first 8mg pill on day 1 in 6-8 lines over an hour or two). You might discover you feel fine after 4mg.

 

[Bhall99]

Why would you snort vs the sublingul route?

 

[streetpharmacist84]

youve got the right idea as far as the taper goes, Im out here in Ca Ive never seen the powder form ever. My self personally after about 1.5 years off and on messing with the tar I decided to knock it off because after a while its the only thing that was working for my pain, but the effects were so short it was plain and simple just not cost effective. I myself am prescibed 4x 30mg IR oxycodones, 4x norco 10mg/325 as needed for pain, and 4x 10mg diazepam daily for pain. I usually use that amount in about 2.5 weeks time. Enough about me, just wanted to share a little background to back up my claim. So like I said, and I agree with the others you plan is pretty solid......only thing I would wanna say (I hesitate some because Ive never used the powder but I doubt its much different that a bunch of blues used via nasal route only you'd need less) is that I would taper the H out more....in my experience on the bupe, yes it is extremely powerful.......however the transition stage is difficult because the effectiveness of it really isnt appreciated until you realize how long it lasts compared to any other opiate, period. Its not super euphoric or very pain relieving, and you may still feel not quite fixed up per se. The reason I say taper the H down more is over 3 days its not even really reducing your tolerance. I would try to stretch it over a week then do your bupe taper, you will get more out of it. Also in my experience you will probably start withdrawing really bad if you dont redose in say 12 hours if my speculation is correct and you can start the bupe then. Also, a little trick I have found is the general concenus is taking regular opiates while suboxone in your system is a waste.........which is totally true if your just looking to get loaded. But if your trying to curb the withdrawls, or you have a pain issue I find overlapping the tapers slightly helps reduce the overall withdrawal intensity. Especially if your on say only 2 to 4 mg of bupe. However I will reiterate Im on the west coast and have not had the luxery of the nice powder form you speak of. So if anyone out there want to correct me please do, I just want to share what works for me. Bupe really is a damn near wonder drug. If I was able to eliminate or reduce my chronic pain the first thing I would do is get rid of the damn opiates........the addiction factor encompasses all people from every walk of life. Good luck man if your gonna do it, do it. Also, why dont you just get a sub doctor? Its really easy if you have insurance and if you dont they have a shitload of coupons to help folks pay for a script of it. Part of getting over your addiction is removing yourself from sitiuations that traditionally would put you at risk for relapse, and getting bupe from a street dealer is putting right in the mix of all the opiophiles fiending for a fix and ready to devour you wallet.

 

[Phil.McKeer]

Why would you snort vs the sublingul route?

Snorting subutex is known to deliver the drug faster with a more pronounced onset. Its my preferred ROA unless I have the suboxone strips.

Looking now, I see OP reports having suboxone strips, so nevermind.

 

[Mad Dash]

Snorting subutex is known to deliver the drug faster with a more pronounced onset. Its my preferred ROA unless I have the suboxone strips.

Looking now, I see OP reports having suboxone strips, so nevermind.

ditto.

But I am not as much a fan of the rapid detox because it doesn't allow you to build vital life skills and structure while not being high. But this looks like a case of I got XYZ off the street and need to detox in a hurry. The reason so many people are on bupe for years is because it takes years do get to where I was in terms of my addiction, it is going to take at least half as long to get back out of it.

 

[Bhall99]

I appreciate all the feedback. I agree with most of you. Street Pharm I appreciate all that. To update, my bupe is subsolv.. its a suboxone form that disolves under the tongue. Its equiv to the 8/2 suboxone pills/strips its 5.7/2.3 Pill... I have not started my plan yet, and have been trying to lower my tolerance. I have been doing .3 the past 4 days where befoer my habbit was about 1g a day. I've been suprised that .3 is keeping withdraws at bay, as long as I spread throughout the day. Any other things you guys recoomend me doing before jumping off and starting bupe to help with withrdaw process? ALso with going to a suboxone doctor.. is it compeltely private? I don't want my work knowing or anyone figuring out I have this problem.. Which is most of the time not effective.. I understand that. But I want to give myself a shot to quit before telling anyone. I have no had a prbloem that long and I want to belive in myself before I give into others and reach out for help.. if you understand that. Thanks everyone.

 

[Bhall99]

Update as well... I purchased 12 more bags of H.. Told dealer I was done and deleted his number. WHat would you guys reccomend by cycling what I have left to be most effective....

 

[adder]

My piece of advice is don't switch between heroin and buprenorphine, you're just going to lose your Zubsolv that way and get angry not getting high off heroin. There are plenty of threads here on BL with people switching between heroin and buprenorphine for a few days or weeks, and ending up taking more heroin than they did in the first place.

 

[smackydowners]

yeah, dont cycle your use. use your smack up, wait 36 hours, then do your bupe plan. you could try starting with 4mg though and see where that gets you first.

 

[Phil.McKeer]

Oh OK...the zubsolvs have some kind of minty flavor. Never tried snorting those, seems like they'd burn. I'm sure someone has tried it and reported back.

Yeah definitely try to taper down your H gradually if possible, but it's ok to go with a big hurrah too. Just don't try to switch back and forth like everyone has been warning. Especially while you have high bupe levels in you, you'll be wasting dope, not to mention mentally messing up your attempt to quit.

And remember to wait as long as possible into withdrawal to dose your subs! You'll waste the bupe and put yourself in more agony if you go too soon - some people judge it in hours, I say wait until you are in full blown, highly painful withdrawal. This can be anywhere between 12-36 hours for different people. You'll know. Just wait. Maybe find some benzos to help you relax.

I wrote up a whole detox diary a few weeks ago when I was doing the same thing. It might help.

 

[streetpharmacist84]

I don't agree with doing one last hoorah. All that will do is make you need more bupe at first which will trash your plan altogether.........Im not even saying I would have the will power to do one last hoorah, so I understand the point but from a harm reduction stand point your gonna need the will power if you really truely want anyways.......so its better if you wing down as slow as possible from the h and bupe. youll be loads more comfortable

 

[Bhall99]

I went about 18 hrs which is lognest I've gone in awhile without dosing with H.. I woke up in withdraw and only did 1 1/2 bags again. Its been 5 hours and still okay. Any other reccomendations?

 

[Bhall99]

Here I go day 1 of Subxoone.. going to dose around 6pm tonight.. that will be 24s hours... Any last words?!

 

[RTrain]

I don't see the point of using the Subs here. Maybe you take 1 Sub, just 1 full Sub at the 24 hour mark, I could see that strategy working for someone with your habit size. But a 2 week taper seems pointless. If you are gonna do a rapid taper I would do it much more rapid. Like 4, 2, 2, 1, .5 and done. If you are going to go 2 weeks I would then think you are gonna have a rough time following the Sub taper, you'll let yourself get too dependent on Subs at that point and probably have a 7-10 day w/d that will be about 50-60% as miserable as a cold turkey would've been, but a cold turkey you just suck it up and its over in about 5 days. Here you gotta go thru the day of sickness for the induction on subs, you have to deal with that first day where the subs only hold you at about 50% of w/ds. Then when you drop from 2 to 1 mg you'll notice it and feel crappy for about half the day if your dosing once a day, by the time you get stabilized again at a small dose you then are jumping off and you'll be hooked on the subs too much, so it will be a lengthy w/d.

Basically - A rapid sub taper should be no longer than the duration of the w/d form the drug you are currently dependent on. In this case dope, so about 5 days. And your doses should not be so large for a rapid taper. The lower the better. A rapid taper for .5 g of dope a day should probably need no more than an 8 mg pill. Like I said, wait until its unbearable and pop the 8 mg and ride it out from there or use the lower dose, shorter taper.

EDIT: Oh, and if you don't like the idea of a 5-7 day taper or the single Sub dose, then I would suggest enlongating the taper for about another week or 2 and dropping the dose to at least .1 mg at a more gradual pace. To achieve that, best bet is to first start at a lower dose, don't start at more than 6 mg a day. What I would do is erase days 1 & 2, start at your day 3 dose and drop as you have written there. But when you get to 2 mg, drop like this:

1.75 day 1
1.75
1.5
1.5
1.25 day 5
1.25
1
1
.75
.75 day 10
.5
.5
.35
.35
.25 day 15
.25
.2
.2
.15
.15 day 20
.1
.05 (at this point you can maybe do 2 days at .1, or 2 days at .05,
but might as well just jump because its not gonna make a huge diff at this point)

This should be about 4 weeks total for you, you'll find it much easier to do a slow taper if you go 2 or more weeks than to go so rapidly. Of course you need to look up the 'liquid dosing procedure for suboxone taper' to help measure these doses. Its pretty simple with a 1 CC and a 3 CC syringe and any mathematic ability whtsoever.

 

[Bhall99]

Well I slipped and dosed suboxone at 18 hurs.. Took 4mg... at first and abotu 15 mins later I started to feel worse, got a wierd buzz dizzy feeling, and got cold. I layed down very uncomfortable for about an hour and it got a little better then I took the other half 4mg.. I still don't feel good, no where near 1 bag of H would of held me off feeling. Do you think I'm not high enough dosed? or what should I do?

 

[Bhall99]

Well Train.. I've already taken 8mg today. Not much relief at all... I'm debating on what I want to do now.. Just take the 1 like u said and be done.. or maybe just ride it out as long as I can. then do .4 then ride it out.. .2 etc... hmmm