Comedown after large dose - worried

[First Bad Comedown]

Heed his words, but don't let his exhaustive (and exhausting presentation of) detail confound you.

Perhaps the best post ever to remind me that I go just a little bit too far.
I do recognize the value of brevity, yet somehow I convince myself that writing the equivalent of a 3 page college homework assignment is actually desired by drug users on BL. Or those in recovery...

Honestly I laughed when I read your post, because I knew before I finished writing everything that I am indeed exhaustive. I always have been on BL - never satisfied with a simple post.
You will find the majority of my posts to be quite long...no one liners for this writer.

But I find your writing style to be most effective.
Your words on stress, self-forgiveness, the temporary nature of the self....well done.
I normally find such advice to be lacking in detail, highly subjective, and offered without thought.
You have risen above the tide in this regard.

I think too many recovered MDMA users offer advice about lowering stress and moving on with life, failing to recognize just how long it took themselves to reach such a conclusion.
They preach to those just beginning the journey as if they somehow gained such wisdom automatically.
Intense suffering is a critical part of the journey, and without it ultimate recovery (and meaningful understanding) cannot be reached.

Imagine how pleased I was to immediately read your next post, indicating how long it took you to reach your current mature understanding. It was like you were reading my analytical and exhausting mind.
You have ranked highly in my book, rebinator.

You are not the only BL member to claim, at 24 months recovery, that much of the process is subjective and life does indeed go on.

I am intrigued by your words on antiracetam, particularly the 'permanent' effects you have suggested.
I have doubts about this, as the effects of Piracetam take at least one month and up to 3 to fully recede.
If you have any other advice on this matter, please share.

Marq - thanks for backing me up on 5-HTP and serotonin syndrome.
Too many MDMA users think they can simply increase serotonin production post roll to eliminate the negative effects. They lack the understanding that if true serotonin toxicity has occurred, increasing serotonin supply can be dangerous.

To greenback - please keep us updated.
It is important for threads like these to include follow-up.

 

[Kommienezuspadt]

FBC,

Thanks for your amazing posts.

I am a 23 year old who partakes in a healthy lifestyle (I do not drink, smoke, do drugs etc...), and weighs 64kg.

However, I have rolled 3 times in my life: 1 pill on Dec 06; 1 pill + 1 re-dose pill (taken 1-2 hours after coming up from the first pill) on Dec 07; and 1 pill on Dec 08.

The second time I rolled (when I re-dosed) I had severe emotional reactions for the next month and I consistently felt like I was about to collapse.

These symptoms did subside, and stupidly I chose to forget about my reaction, so I tried rolling again a year later.

After my third role strange changes have persisted in my head from around Jan 09-now!

I studied a Mathematics degree from Sept 08-June 11, but the final 2 years of my degree were severely hindered by the changes in my head.

My speed of processing information has significantly slowed down and for my important final exams I felt no nerves or any emotion. Just numb and slow. My brain seemsto be refusing to go through any emotional experiences, and as a result I can not seem to feel motivated or feel any adrenaline.

Even before, during and after job interviews, I feel as if I have not gone through any experience. My brain remains in the same flat unresponsive state throughout.

At times I feel like smacking my head to try and kick start some sort of reaction. It currently feels as though my brain is like a broken down car that needs a jump
start.

Coffee makes me feel a bit better for 10 minutes or so but then I revert back to regular slow, dead state.

Additionally, I would describe the sensation as my brain being squeezed, stopping my brain from flowing properly.

My main concern about this condition is the lack of uptake of experience (my brain seems to have stopped itself from going through the motions of experiencing) and
the impaired the speed of my cognitive functioning, which destroyed my academic career; and could yet destroy my
professional career, before it has even started!!

 

[Kommienezuspadt]

Any advice?

 

[greenback]

Thank you all very much for your input.

FBC - thanks for the sleep advice, I'm limiting the amount of light exposure in the evening, and just in the last few days I've been getting better sleep.

Rebinator - thanks for the l-theanine tip, I'm thinking of giving that a go. I'm keeping the exercise up (I cycle to work every day, 8-mile round trip with a couple of big hills) and planning to join a gym near work so I can get some weights in during lunchbreaks or after work. The gym also offer head massage, meditation and yoga classes, so will look into these as well.

darksidedsam - my sleep has recently improved a little, so I'm going to stick with what I'm doing for the moment, but will increase the valerian to 900mg if it gets worse again. I have read that taking it for many weeks is inadvisable, so I'll probably phase it out in a month or so.

A general update is that sleep is definitely improving - for the last few days I haven't had any trouble falling asleep, and have usually slept for 5 hours straight before waking up. I've also been sleeping deeply and having dreams (normal ones) that I remember. Normally when I wake up I feel tired and sometimes fall asleep again, although it's usually restless for the last couple of hours. I also have a very good appetite, no change from normal.

One thing I forgot to mention is the brain zaps. I had my first one over 2 weeks ago as I was falling asleep - like someone putting a voltage across my head for a couple of seconds! It was frightening but I'd already heard of them so knew not to panic. I had another one week later, and a third about 4 nights ago, again as I was falling asleep. In the days since then my sleep has improved, both in quality and duration.

I'm still experiencing the dp/dr, I think it has improved slightly since I've been sleeping better, but it still inteferes with nearly every conversation - most of the time I'm thinking how odd my voice sounds instead of what I'm actually saying. I have a job that requires a lot of concentration, and I'm finding that the brain fog and short term memory problems are getting in the way, but I'm still able to get things done, and when I'm busy I can ignore it to some extent.

I played football tonight and for some of it felt like I was an observer rather than involved in the game - there is still a feeling of disconnection from my surroundings. I tried to ignore this feeling by concentrating on the game, but it's much easier said than done, especially with constant visual reminders such as the enhanced colour and light sensitivity that I'm experiencing.

Fortunately during the last few days I haven't experienced any anxiety at all - a few times I've felt a bit low\nostalgic, but nothing I can't deal with. One other thing is that memories, even fairly recent ones, feel like they are from a long time ago or even another life. I was thinking about last summer when everything was great, and how I'm feeling now, and it feels like it could have been years ago! I long to feel back to normal again, to feel excitement and look forward to things like I used to - the "anhedonia" has left me semi zombie-like, although I don't think I have a bad case of it as I still have a sense of humour and enjoy the stuff I used to, just not as much.

One symptom that is still bothering me is the feeling of slight motion sickness. This has improved since the beginning, but is most noticeable when I'm at my desk at work and looking straight ahead. It's a bit like the slight dizziness you'd get from knocking back a stiff drink and then lying back and looking at the ceiling. The head pressure has also eased up a little, but it's not gone away.

I'm hopeful that these symptoms will clear up as I get more sleep, but at the current rate it's going to be a long, slow climb. What worries me a little is that some people report HPPD and dp/dr never going away! I'm trying not to think about that, but it's not easy.

I'll check back in soon when I've got some news.

Thanks again for all your help and support.

 

[Darksidesam]

Glad to hear what it sounds to be your on the mend.

 

[ProducedRaw]

Just wanted to chime in and add some weight to the proposed solutions. The last few times I did MDMA I took high doses (500mg) and on the last one, stupidly, pre-loaded with and took high doses of 5-HTP during the roll. I had also damaged my serotonin system with repeated high doses (~800mg) of Tramadol during a three month period almost two years ago. Occasional, mild brain zaps were present for a prolonged period and were persistently brought back by cannabis, though at a lower amplitude.

I started using a stack of L-Tryptophan, L-Tyrosine, Rhodiola Rosea, Vitamins B6, B12 & D, Magnesium, Zinc, Lecithin, Calcium, Spirulina, Creatine, Ashwagandha, high dose Flax Seed Oil and a strong sativa as well as regular weight lifting and meditation with occasional further supplementation of L-Dopa and 5-HTP. This improved things considerably. I recently added Piracetam and Aniracetam into the mix, replaced the strong sativa with a weak indica, started drinking Green Tea, replaced weight lifting with jogging, have been using small amounts of DMT sporadically and I finally feel 100% again. It's been a few months since the last MDMA dose. This is a drug to be avoided - the safety profile is terrible and the potential damage takes far too long to heal.

As a side note, the Racetams are nothing less than a gold mine.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Kommienezuspadt -
There is a small discrepancy with your dates.
But it does appear that it has been at least 3 years since your last use.

This makes two very unusual facts in your story.
First there is your limited exposure to the drug.
Then there is the long period of abstinence since your last use.

Even those that describe very long recovery periods from MDMA tend to make significant statements about quality of life returning within 1-2 years.
And the ones that I have encountered that go past this tend to be poly-drug users, like acid or mushrooms.

It is very uncommon for MDMA to cause such a severe reaction, but not impossible.
Your initial pattern of use is certainly a binge - and MDMA is well-known as the least binge-worthy drug.
Many animal studies suggest that dosing on consecutive days causes the most damage.

Describing a lack of emotion during typically stressful events such as exams or interviews, suggests HPA dysfunction.
The hypothalamus pituitary adrenal axis is the key to the magical effects of MDMA, and arguably most drugs.
It is also critical to normal function in life.

During the initial months of recovery, I imagine you had a heightened startle response.
Now you lack even a minor one.

Your HPA no longer controls adrenaline and cortisol like it used to.
And dopamine is being suppressed by damaged serotonin transmission.

My advice?

Exercise, daily.

It releases dopamine, supports adrenal function by lowering cortisol, and releases a serotonin growth factor.
What more could you ask for a 'jump start'?

The only other option is to practice forcing yourself to become angry.
At the late state of recovery that you reside in, this may be impossible to do on your own.
So I would suggest finding someone close to you that knows about your past, to force you into an angry state.
What would actually manage to get your blood boiling?
Or simmering...

Anything that gets you upset may be worthwhile.
Regardless of the dopamine suppression in the frontal lobes, the limbic system is quite capable of functioning.
Put your fucking amygdala to use.
It is there for a REASON.

You are SUPPOSED to be pissed off at what has happened to you.
I imagine you were at some point.
Time to stoke those flames again.

You may not feel apprehension or reward like you used to, but if the right buttons are pushed - anger is still within your grasp. Even if you don't believe me, you need to force it to happen.
Anger has caused the greatest alterations in my brain, both positive and negative, than anything this last year. Many people with brain damage or tumors find themselves lashing out in anger for no reason.
Plenty of stories exist to support the notion that anger is a healing emotion.

Exercise and rage...the best ways to reshape the brain.

Greenback -

Your early brain zaps may be a very good sign.
In my experience those who develop them in the first few months tend to be younger and recover quicker.
I did not have hardly any 'zaps' at all, maybe a half dozen in 14 months.
But major 'head-pressure' started in the first two months and persisted through month 8.

Your description of being dizzy or slightly drunk is exactly as I would have described it.
This is likely caused by altered blood flow in your brain.

But the 'zap' phenomena sounds like major changes in blood flow, not minor ones.
While this may be scary for you, I consider it a sign of more efficient brain adaptation.
Remember that serotonin has a powerful effect on small blood vessels in the brain.
If you move enough capillaries, the larger vessels and arteries are bound to respond.
Luckily for us, the brain is designed to provide blood from a number of different directions.
Aside from hemorrhaging or clots, there is little concern.
Let the zaps happen.

Produced Raw - quite a lineup you got there.
I agree the Racetams are fucking incredible - but I doubt they are a cure.
Until you have spent months off of them you cannot know.

The rest of your supplements appear pretty safe, although tryosine can cause severe mania in some people.
And the long list itself serves as evidence that you are seeking a cure for a very real change that has occurred.

It takes a lot more than a few months to truly recover.
Good luck.