Opioids Combining Heroin and Subutex

[jabualj]

It's not so much that I feel the dope right after, but it makes me stop feeling shitty from the subs. I really do think it was a placebo effect. I expected to get sick without dope and therefore I did. I was always afraid I didn't wait long enough after doing dope and read all the horror stories about PW, so I convinced myself it was happening;

It wasn't getting me high, so in answer to your question, yes I want to stop using dope, I just couldn't handle being sick. I have an extremely demanding job - 7 days a week, 10+ hours a day, and essentially run the company answering only to the owners. So I really can't afford to be dope sick

That being said, I think I'm over the hump - yesterday was pretty good, and today was a breeze with 4mg in the morning and another 4mg in the afternoon. I don't want to feel high from the subs or dope anymore - just not miserable

I also picked up all the OTC "miracle" remedies too - Immodium like you said (loperamide), some Thera Flu (DXM), and some sleep aids (diphenhydramine). If I have another panic attack I'll swallow a bunch of that stuff to get through it

Let me know how the loperamide works out for you

 

[jabualj]

JM357 - I don't follow exactly - you'r saying you feel the dope 6 hours after subs if you've been IVing for 3 days while doing the subs or without?

 

[JM357]

I feel dope 6 hours after subs BUT only if I've been IV'ing for at least 3 days (which causes me to have to shoot up every 4-5 hours to not be super sick).

Sorry double post- IV the subs for the 72 hours (if you read the insert and study on bupe injections the average half-life is like 2.2 hours) I know a lot of people disagree but it works that way for me.

 

[Erikmen]

Within an hour - that's why I'm surprised it has any effect

Me too.

 

[jabualj]

Only 2.2 hours for IV bupre? That seems pretty short - normally without the subs, I have to shoot h every 6 hours or so to not start feeling sick

But I'm not IVing the subs - tried it once and got crazy sick! I take them sublingually, then IV the dope. Then continue to feel "normal" well after I know the dope would've worn off. I can do it at 10 in the morning and still feel fine when I wake up the next morning!

I think the subs are finally saturating my system enough now though that I don't need the h. I just get paranoid. Whateveryouwill is right though - this morning I got up, popped half a sub, jumped in the shower and went to the doctor, then work. I was so busy all day I didn't even think about the h and felt fine

Still don't get why the h worked so quickly after taking anywhere from 2- 8 mg of bupre. It's definitely part psychological, but the cold sweats and other symptoms where real enough - felt like I had an IV drip of ice water!! Probably just exacerbated by my anxiety.

 

[DonStatus]

In my experience it really depends on what dose of subs you are taking.

I also have experienced mild withdrawal symptoms about 12 hours after my dose, especially once I got down to 2mg.

If your taking 8mg+ per day it should hold you well into the next day.

The duration of effect for many of us is about 6 hours per 2mg, so it could be your dose isn't high enough.

But yes it is possible to "burn off" the subs faster at a low dose and being to feel mild withdrawal.

That's why when you take your shot it makes you feel good because it hits the vacant receptors.

It may be placebo for some but it sure ain't for everyone.

 

[jabualj]

There were definitely withdrawal symptoms in there, but a lot of it was mental. I feel fine on the subs now - been taking 4mg a day for the last week with no issues

Took 2mg this morning and have felt fine, but that's only because my pharmacy is out until tomorrow and I only had half of an 8mg left

I'm sure I wasted a lot of money on h that I really didn't even feel, but it's a small price to pay, relatively speaking, to get comfortable not using it every day

I really put myself out there too, telling my boss and po, but everyone's been surprisingly supportive - to be fair, my probation is in no way drug related and I've never had a drug related offense in my life (I'm 37)

 

[chocobear]

Sub Switchin' Ramble

You CAN do subs and then do heroin. You CAN'T do heroin and then do subs.

What you did was when you switched to bupe, instead of letting the initial un-comfortableness of quitting heroin subside (the first few days on subs are weird/light WD to me, loose bowels, anxiety, generally not comfortable), you responded to this by doing more heroin. By doing this, you have stopped your remaining mild WD symptoms, but it's fucking with your brain, because instead of taking more bupe and letting it take hold, your body still remained dependent on heroin. I've experienced this myself, I've done a lot of switching between subs and heroin over the years, a lot more frequently then I would have preferred to do. (availability/finance issues)

I can see how doing your sub dose then doing a shot could be able to hold you til the next morning. It's all the opiates still in your head. Full agonist or blocker molecules, whatever, they're still all floating around because you haven't let them deplete. Like if your first day is: sub->H->sub and day 2 is: H->sub->H, you won't really feel sick, because you are keeping your brain constantly fed with opiates and the bupe hasn't fully left your receptors. So you dose with a full agonist, and when you redose the sub, it just adds to your wall of opiates..does that make any sense?

I'm not sure if I'm even making sense or if my words would be appreciated..or even what exactly the question you posed was, but I feel like posting because it's 3:29 AM and it's a subject I can contribute on, so I dunno, hopefully this clears things up.

From what I gathered from your postings, you have successfully switched over to subs fully now, which I congratulate you for. Whenever you feel a little uncomfortable or get a craving, just take more bupe to satisfy your fiendbrain. Keep your doses small and remember, suboxone will never feel like heroin, and once you accept this, hopefully you can find some peace mentally and begin to feel more comfortable in your skin. %)

Peace
CB

 

[jabualj]

Ha, it actually makes perfect sense man. Maybe because I'm also up at 3:30am, drifting in and out of sleep and only semi coherent, but I think this is exactly the answer I've been looking for! You seem to be the first person who really does understand what I'm asking

And I was thinking it was probably something along those lines. More just tricking my brain in order to avoid any withdrawal whatsoever. And yes, probably an absolute and utter waste of money and heroin, but I pretty much knew that. I just felt like everyone was saying it was impossible and it seemed to be working just fine

I'm not going to say I don't still get cravings for h, but I'm definitely comfortable on the subs alone without any withdrawals - real or imagined. The anxiety was just fuckiong with me badly as I hadn't ever been through it before and I needed the security blanket. And was hoping someone else on here would understand and tell me why it was working. So thank you for response CB

 

[Product]

Ok, so I'm a new member and this is my first post, so I hope I have this in the right section. I've been reading for a couple weeks, but haven't seen the exact situation I'm in, though I realize I may just have missed it;

I've been using IV heroin for about three months now, about 1 - 1.5 grams/day. About two weeks ago I started suboxone treatment with the 8mg sublingual subutex pills. I did plenty of research and have tried waiting 12, 18, or 24 hours after my last dose to take the Subutex. But every time I get sick! I recognize a big part of it is probably anxiety - I'm a big baby and don't want to feel sick for one minute!

What I've discovered is once I feel sick from the Subutex, if I take a shot of H I instantly feel better. Not high, neccesarily, just "normal." So what I've started doing is taking 2-4 mg of Subutex in the morning (I've taken as much as 8 ), then doing a shot afterwards. It's been about two days and I'm trying to build the amount of subutex in my system and do less and less heroin. The weird thing is, when I do this, the h lasts much longer - I'll feel fine up to about 24 hours later

My question is, has anyone else done this or had this experience? Does it even make sense with the opioid blocking effects of buprenorphine or is it some kind of placebo effect based on my fear that it won't work on it's own? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated - I really can't afford inpatient care as I'd probably lose my job or not be able to afford rent! I really want to make the full transition, I just can't handle being sick!

I knew someone once that had your exact problem. It didn't end well. Please dig into your most inner strength and try to substitute your addiction of heroin and do NOT use subs. The person I knew and was not very fond of used the subs for barely a week and ended up selling them for more heroin. I would say rehab and will power is your only option. I have used this saying for about a year now. "We gain strength from the temptations we resist." Dig deep as you can man. It's a world wide epidemic and it's horrifying. I hope it works out for you. From : Product.

 

[jabualj]

Huh, interesting. I appreciate the support, but at this point I've switched completely over to the subs. I'm not sure what happened with the other person you're talking about, but everyone's different. I never traded my subs for heroin, I just didn't have the confidence in their ability to be effective at first. But I've somehow gotten past that using the heroin to transition

It's possible the person you're talking about really just didn't want to stop using the heroin. I'd go so far as to say most addicts I've known haven't had it end well because most of them don't genuinely want to stop. But again, thank you for the concern and support

 

[Newtoblue16]

I'm honestly surprised and a little disappointed I've gotten so little response to this - I figured their were a lot of people on here with experience with opiate withdrawal who could try to explain based on their own experience or lend some support. I don't have any family or close friends where I live and this is my first experience with withdrawal, which scares the shit out of me. I've looked into medical detox, but I really want the subs to work so I can continue living my life

The main thing is I want to know if doing h right after suboxone can be negative in any way - aside from wasting the high of course! I can deal with it being a placebo effect if it helps me transition from h to suboxone with minimal suffering

I really appreciate the support. I actually woke up this morning feeling better than I've felt in months! I took 2mg and a very small shot (.1-.2) after I got out of the shower and I feel completely "normal" right now. I'm not even sure if the PW would have hit, but like I said I'm a big baby. Plus I have an extremely demanding job - I basically run the staffing company I work for and essentially never have a day off! So I can't afford to take a chance

I'm going to wait until I go to the new doctor tomorrow, so it'll be over 24 hours, and see what happens. It'll be the first time I take the subs under medical supervision, and as good as I feel this morning I'm hopeful everything will go smoothly and I can finally ditch the h!

I'm going to put this very clearly because from the responses I've seen, the advice is wrong. You CAN do a sub, then H after. That's not when you will go into PWs, the only thing is you won't feel the high/rush you usually would from H because bupe attaches itself to your opiode receptors and binds so tightly that an opiate can not break through. BUT if you do the opposite and do H then a sub, you WILL go into PWs if you have not waited long enough. You need to be WD to take a sub safely, and EVERYONES body process' differently. From what I've read and/or experienced it's 24-72 hours. So your just wasting the dope you're doing, and the reason you probably felt sick when taking the sub was because you didn't wait long enough from your last shot of H. I'm really surprised that the responses on here are so inaccurate when you can clearly find threads with the exact info I just gave. Do more research. Google it, and you will find the exact info I just gave. Good luck.

 

[DonStatus]

Yes, you can do subs then H.

Yes, you can do H then Subs (Providing your already on subs)

I've done both and had success with both, no intense precipitated withdrawals.

But as the others have mentioned it's stupid, because it's best to stick to one or the other.

If your not ready to quit stick with the H until you decide that it's time to make the switch to subs.

By doing H on top of your sub doses you'll gonna never be fully comfortable on the subs and always crave something extra.

But don't beat yourself up about it, I've done the same thing many times.

I'm just giving you my advice, which comes from experience.

Good luck