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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Coma Therapy To Bypass Withdrawal

90sdance

90sdance

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
401
Apparently this used quite a bit and with a good success rate in Russia. Addicts can check into rehab facilities that will put them into a coma so they can sleep through the withdrawal. It seems like a great idea imo, and i would sign up for such a thing if it existed here to fast track venlafaxine withdrawal. Unfortunately nowhere in Europe seems to do it, and while there was a Doctor in the US who did it he no longer offers the procedure. I contacted him once and i believe he cited external pressure as being one of the reasons he stopped. Why would there be such resistance to a practice like this in Europe and the US ? (lets have a few guesses)

 
I heard bad stuff about Russia regarding drug users and addiction/withdrawal, afaik they don't have any methadone or buprenorphine treatment and people are so left alone that they cook codeine tablets to krokodil with all sorts of nasty ingredients. I know this comes with urban myth vibes but I've seen a documentary which showed the scene. They also have some 'witch doctors' injecting you with a white liquid, which induces a dissociative trip and then afterwards hook you up to a lung machine and inject you with a fentanyl overdose to show you what opioids would do to you from now on (of course not when dosed correctly but they try to deter you).

To withdraw during coma would be a welcome addition I guess. Even when I continue to see dissociatives as the definitive answer to opioid addiction.
They do this in Germany as well, there they anesthetize you and implant you with a naltrexone implant. Wonder what agents they use, propofol maybe? Or even ketamine?
 
Being put in a medical coma so we didn't have to suffer the pain of a physical WD would be great as I'm sure everyone stuck on Fent would agree. But that only takes care of the Biological part and does nothing for the mind. When the person wakes up they are still just as addicted as they ever were.

We can't fully recover until our brain lets us and that can take years. Not only for the biological recovery but the mental recovery. That's why we relapse and that's why we crave. I would rather stay awake for the physical WD and be put in the coma for the mental WD.
 
Nurse Ratched said:
Being put in a medical coma so we didn't have to suffer the pain of a physical WD would be great as I'm sure everyone stuck on Fent would agree. But that only takes care of the Biological part and does nothing for the mind. When the person wakes up they are still just as addicted as they ever were.

We can't fully recover until our brain lets us and that can take years. Not only for the biological recovery but the mental recovery. That's why we relapse and that's why we crave. I would rather stay awake for the physical WD and be put in the coma for the mental WD.
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I think a long lasting dissociative is urgently needed by the medical community. Like methoxetamine. Combine coma withdrawal with some extended release methoxetamine to cover the mind part and post-acute withdrawal symptoms sounds like a good idea to me.

But we even have one long-lasting and very well tolerated dissociative available: memantine. It's off patent so no interest in getting a second approbation next to it's current only one, against Alzheimer's. It's good in aiding with PAWS. No magic but as close to that as technically possible, I personally was amazed by its power to get over morphine withdrawal.
 
plumbus-nine said:
I heard bad stuff about Russia regarding drug users and addiction/withdrawal, afaik they don't have any methadone or buprenorphine treatment and people are so left alone that they cook codeine tablets to krokodil with all sorts of nasty ingredients. I know this comes with urban myth vibes but I've seen a documentary which showed the scene. They also have some 'witch doctors' injecting you with a white liquid, which induces a dissociative trip and then afterwards hook you up to a lung machine and inject you with a fentanyl overdose to show you what opioids would do to you from now on (of course not when dosed correctly but they try to deter you).

To withdraw during coma would be a welcome addition I guess. Even when I continue to see dissociatives as the definitive answer to opioid addiction.
They do this in Germany as well, there they anesthetize you and implant you with a naltrexone implant. Wonder what agents they use, propofol maybe? Or even ketamine?
Click to expand...

Just checked the website, its actually Kazakhstan. Anyway, i like the look of the place. The guy seems to be trying allot of heterodox approaches, but interesting nonetheless. As for Russia doing crazy shit, thats a given (part of the places charm really), but caricaturing it (or anywhere in the old eastern bloc) as inherently backward is inaccurate. The Russians have allot of scientific notoriety historically anyway - and i get the impression that everything there is available for a price (they likely have very advanced stuff on offer if your willing to pay). The consensus in the west would be that their lack of stringent uniformity in all things is necessarily bad, but im not so sure. Its definitely more chaotic territory re lack of enforced standardization, but this also means various alternative approaches are allowed to exist. This has good and bad aspects (even if its mostly bad aspects
 
Yeah, there are some interesting Russian pharms and nootropics like Semax/Selank, or afobazole and a handful others. Once I've ordered some and likened the selank, semax was too stimulating for me. Didn't reorder because they must have a hella lot of profit margin.

Wonder what dissociative(?) they were using for these white shots. Think there's a documentary about from Vice. At least it does sound like a dissociative what the person said about the experience. It can't be ibogaine as this comes with a day-long trip. Maybe even ketamine? But it must be a strong one as the people were free of withdrawal after the trip was over.
 
Anthony Kiedis described such treatment in book Scar Tissue. I dont remember if he was in such once or twice or thrice. Once he woke up in bizarre sedation, barely able to stand, managed to recover his car keys and went to score.
 
Pissed_and_messed said:
Anthony Kiedis described such treatment in book Scar Tissue. I dont remember if he was in such once or twice or thrice. Once he woke up in bizarre sedation, barely able to stand, managed to recover his car keys and went to score.
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He made it ! Awesome book I bet !!
 
Pissed_and_messed said:
Anthony Kiedis described such treatment in book Scar Tissue. I dont remember if he was in such once or twice or thrice. Once he woke up in bizarre sedation, barely able to stand, managed to recover his car keys and went to score.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this is what I suspect about coma withdrawal. That you wake up, restless and anhedonic, constantly thinking about the next fix. The bad thing about withdrawal isn't the physical but mental symptoms. If one would feel happy or even depressed while withdrawing it would be much easier to just wait until it's over. But we have the mental component, and dreading post acute withdrawal possibly lasting for months. This is why in some places they implant you with naloxone, to make you not feel a thing from any opioid besides heavy fent dosages (I assume). As my accidental exposure to naloxone (from snorting a tilidine/naloxone pill, stupidly assuming the naloxone would be only active when injected) was heavily dysphoric even when I wasn't tolerant to opioids at that time, I wonder how much of dysphoria naltrexone gives you. It has the same inverse agonistic mechanism as naloxone.

But this is why I can't stop to recommend dissociatives as an answer to opioid addiction. They are able to cover the mental symptoms to a great deal so it's both easier and less likely to relapse.
 
He had a horrible infection. He has a lot of scar tissue. I guess dissociatives can't hurt that much.
 
The long-term outcomes of this approach isn't great. Requires indefinite naltrexone use for it to really work.
 
plumbus-nine said:
Yeah, this is what I suspect about coma withdrawal. That you wake up, restless and anhedonic, constantly thinking about the next fix. The bad thing about withdrawal isn't the physical but mental symptoms. If one would feel happy or even depressed while withdrawing it would be much easier to just wait until it's over. But we have the mental component, and dreading post acute withdrawal possibly lasting for months. This is why in some places they implant you with naloxone, to make you not feel a thing from any opioid besides heavy fent dosages (I assume). As my accidental exposure to naloxone (from snorting a tilidine/naloxone pill, stupidly assuming the naloxone would be only active when injected) was heavily dysphoric even when I wasn't tolerant to opioids at that time, I wonder how much of dysphoria naltrexone gives you. It has the same inverse agonistic mechanism as naloxone.

But this is why I can't stop to recommend dissociatives as an answer to opioid addiction. They are able to cover the mental symptoms to a great deal so it's both easier and less likely to relapse.
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I dont really get what your saying. You would be over the most unbearable painful part, the rest could be managed with other drugs, like CBD or GABA for anxiety (i know Benzos are used but have allot of risks). I can never seem to understand the aversion to this system whenever its brought up tho. The main reason people stay on any drug is to avoid the comedown ? make the comedown a soothe enough landing and the problem is solved ? I have seen some of your posts and you have a good knowledge of supplements and compounds that can avert the PAWS (finding other ways of increasing dopamine), however i fail to see how being knocked out during the intense comedown is not the best option. Also i wonder is something like scopolamine would be of use in helping withdrawal as so much is based in the memory ? Or what about electro-convulsive therapy ?
 
plumbus-nine said:
I wonder how much of dysphoria naltrexone gives you. It has the same inverse agonistic mechanism as naloxone.

But this is why I can't stop to recommend dissociatives as an answer to opioid addiction. They are able to cover the mental symptoms to a great deal so it's both easier and less likely to relapse.
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If you are a musician, prolonged therapy with common doses of naltrexone may have a unacceptable price tag:

www.nature.com

Anhedonia to music and mu-opioids: Evidence from the administration of naltrexone - Scientific Reports

Music’s universality and its ability to deeply affect emotions suggest an evolutionary origin. Previous investigators have found that naltrexone (NTX), a μ-opioid antagonist, may induce reversible anhedonia, attenuating both positive and negative emotions. The neurochemical basis of musical...
www.nature.com www.nature.com

As far as dissociatives for opioid addiction, I never found them much help. Perhaps that's because I don't much like how dissociatives feel (I'm pretty naturally dissociated as it is, which was worsened by years of unusually heavy benzo use which seemed to result in permanent decreased sensitivity of my GABA receptors to the effects of endogenous GABA).
 
Its definitely possible. I don't recommend it but I slept through the worst of fentanyl withdrawal once. My girlfriend flushed all my dope, and meant to flush my xanax too but accidentally flushed by suboxone. So all of a sudden, after being on fent for months, I had none left, and no suboxone either.. all I had was xanax. So I took 10 and fell asleep. Woke up 5 days later to find out that 100 xanax was missing. So I guess I took 100. I had really messed up sleep paralysis and I shit the bed a little bit, but when I woke up I was okay.. the withdrawal was mostly gone.
 
Well, the looming reality that you still have to deal with what brought you to a place of needing to get put into a coma due to a drug habit that got that bad to begin with. I will begin to follow some of the data related to relapse rates, prognoses, etc. So yeah...avoiding WDs is good, but of course it is just the beginning if you are to going to decrease the likelihood that you'd ever find yourself in such a situation again. I will say that even though going through WDs from Morphine, Fentanyl, etc. was a complete nightmare, I never forget that brand of misery and it is one very powerful reason why I don't touch those compounds at all since.
 
*Shivers*

I wouldn't be so afraid of benzos, had I just been in coma for two months.
 
If you won't stop using going through withdrawal the hard way, what is the point of coma therapy?
Ez come ez go IMHO. Stupid idea
 
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