toa$t
Bluelighter
add booze. totally worked.
-
OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | Tryptamino
Opioids Codeine Storage After CWE
- Thread starter puckboy
- Start date
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
vodka would be the preferable(not preferable, easily accessed) alcohol of peoples choice right? obviously a purer product would be most preferred. rather than something like a scotch or whiskey? i just want to get some clarity for people who don't know.
toa$t
Bluelighter
no idea. I used vodka and it worked perfectly. I see no reason why other alcohol wouldn't be just as effective though. might taste a bit grosser.
Is this easily possible?
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
^yes, very easy. if you've got time and patience on your side it's quite a simple technique.
there's quite a few techniques if you check out the CWE thread for evapourating the solution into a powder. though mold and bacteria can be a problem as has been pointed out by Mr Blonde if fillers and binders in them promote the growth of them. check out the ingredients of the tablets you're using to be sure.
there's quite a few techniques if you check out the CWE thread for evapourating the solution into a powder. though mold and bacteria can be a problem as has been pointed out by Mr Blonde if fillers and binders in them promote the growth of them. check out the ingredients of the tablets you're using to be sure.
Mr Blonde
Bluelighter
Not sure if this says anything about the bacteria and mold cultivating possibilities of whatever is in the tablets, but after a few CWEs if I don't wash the shirt I use it very quickly goes all brown and shit and then can spread to other clothes that it's near. Be careful, ya'll.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
^yep, good warning, man. i've heard a few people have that problem. definitely use a clean filter each time!
My chemist advice is...don't do that. Always store your chemicals in a powder form. So let's review what has been said:
Q: Should I store my home made codeine as a solution?
A: NO! Even if your water is ultra pure under 5 ppm, you'll still have chemistry going on in solution that wouldn't occur in a dry powder.
Q: Should I evaporate the liquid and keep the codeine powder?
A: NO! Besides the fact that you won't be able to, unless you have lots of time on your hands or a rotatory vacuum evaporator, you won't know the composition of your powder.
You are basically taking an ultra-pure, industrially dosed powder and turn it into a yellowish gunk of unknown composition. Bad idea.
Q: Can I freeze my codeine solution and keep it in the freezer as an ice cube?
A: Yes...if you freeze it as soon as it's made but then you cannot take it with you anywhere because as soon as it melts you have to take it or throw it away.
The only thing that you could do to save time is to pre-crush the tablets into a fine powder and keep it in the original container and CWE a desired amount of known composition for each use.
It's also a matter of legal issues. If you hold the powder as it is, it's legal. Nobody can prevent you from crushing your tablets lol. As soon as you isolate the codeine, you are in possession of an illegal drug. What's the point of that?
Also, make sure you cool the water slightly above freezing point of 1 or 2 degrees to get as much tylenol/ibuprofen out of the solution. Many people for some reason including erowid mention the 10 degrees celsius temperature. Sorry for the expression but it seems pulled out of the ass...We all have a freezer so...why pick 10 degrees when you can cool down to 1 or 2? Doesn't make sense so use your reasoning before you do as instructed on such sites.
Q: Should I store my home made codeine as a solution?
A: NO! Even if your water is ultra pure under 5 ppm, you'll still have chemistry going on in solution that wouldn't occur in a dry powder.
Q: Should I evaporate the liquid and keep the codeine powder?
A: NO! Besides the fact that you won't be able to, unless you have lots of time on your hands or a rotatory vacuum evaporator, you won't know the composition of your powder.
You are basically taking an ultra-pure, industrially dosed powder and turn it into a yellowish gunk of unknown composition. Bad idea.
Q: Can I freeze my codeine solution and keep it in the freezer as an ice cube?
A: Yes...if you freeze it as soon as it's made but then you cannot take it with you anywhere because as soon as it melts you have to take it or throw it away.
The only thing that you could do to save time is to pre-crush the tablets into a fine powder and keep it in the original container and CWE a desired amount of known composition for each use.
It's also a matter of legal issues. If you hold the powder as it is, it's legal. Nobody can prevent you from crushing your tablets lol. As soon as you isolate the codeine, you are in possession of an illegal drug. What's the point of that?
Also, make sure you cool the water slightly above freezing point of 1 or 2 degrees to get as much tylenol/ibuprofen out of the solution. Many people for some reason including erowid mention the 10 degrees celsius temperature. Sorry for the expression but it seems pulled out of the ass...We all have a freezer so...why pick 10 degrees when you can cool down to 1 or 2? Doesn't make sense so use your reasoning before you do as instructed on such sites.
Last edited:
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
pure codeine powder? seeing your supposedly you're a pharmacist you know this is near impossible for the every day joe who like to use codeine on the ocassion. not unless you're prescribed the pure codeine tablets.
i'm sorry buy you can store it is as a liquid as long as there is a presertive such as an alcohol in there this will prevent any bacteria growth. it has to be kept in a cool place (fridge) and kept air tight.
there are products such as bacteriostatic water which you cna contain them in as well with added benzyl alcohol preservative.
won't be able to? many people have CWE the codeine and evapourated the solution to form a mostly pure codeine product containing trace amount of apap pr ibuprofen or whatever nsaid it is formulated with. it's not a hard process like you're making out.
lol, ultra pure? i think you just mean pure. codeine is one of the less potent opiates available. and i don't know where you're pulling this yellow gunk from? not unless the tablets had a yellow dye.
I meant Tylenol powder or whatever medicine you crushed. I'm not a pharmacist, pharmacists have limited chemistry knowledge.
I suppose you can do that, but it will last less long than if you leave it in the medicine powder.
Pure? You guys can only isolate 95% of the tylenol at best...yields are better with aspirin and ibuprofen but it won't be pure...and how do you know some of the binding agent doesn't end up in the final product?
You previously stated that the codeine powder you isolate at home was pure...since when a codeine powder containing 5000ppm tylenol/ibuprofen/aspirin contaminant is pure? Put otherwise, if that's pure, than how is the original pharmacy Tylenol product that has less than 50 ppm contaminants?
You do what you want...idc I just wouldn't do that that's all.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
i said mosly pure so don't put words in my mouth. of course there are going to be trace amounts of whatever other ingredients included especially when it's only filtered through something like a t-shirt as the most punters use. even trace amounts of "contaminents" are going to be in there after it's been passed through a micron filter.
can i ask where you pulled this 95% number from as well? a source/citing would be nice.
once again i said near pure.
there are tablets available here in australia, other countries as well, which you needn't perform a CWE on if you're taking larger doses. perhaps thats what you're mixed up with. and yes, those tablets do contain other fillers though not sure what they are off the top of my head
wouldn't do what?
Talking about wiki knowledge. Of course, the result of using that figure to approximate the 2 degrees temp is also wrong. I recalculated my solubility and here's what I get:
Acetaminophen:
Temperature---Solubility in pure water in g/100mL
0°C---0.721
5°C---0.821
10°C---0.944
15°C---1.097
20°C---1.278
25°C---1.49
The Equation to calculate the solubility to any temperature below 25°C is therefore:
y = 0.0006x^2 + 0.0165x + 0.7221
Say you want to know the solubility at 3°C, you do:
y = 0.0006*3^2 + 0.0165*3 + 0.7221
y = 0.78g/100mL
High temperatures may show a deviation from the curve since the experimentation took place in between 0 and 25 degrees Celsius but the formula is 100% accurate between these boundaries.
Now say you are trying to obtain 60mg of codeine through CWE and you dispose of pills containing 8mg of codeine each.
60 / 8 = 7.5 pills
You put 8 pills to cover the small error in the procedure. The less water you use, the less codeine you'll be able to extract but if you use too much water, you'll get a lot of dissolved Tylenol so a balance must be found.
Pill:
500mg Tylenol
8mg Codeine
8x 500 = 4g of Tylenol.
If you use 30mL of water to extract the codeine from the 4g of Tylenol in icy water (0°C), you'll get:
0.721g * 0.3 = 0.2163g of Tylenol in solution. So how much Tylenol you separated?
0.2163(Tylenol in solution) / 4(total Tylenol used) = 94.6%
If you use less than 30mL of icy water to extract the codeine from 4g of Tylenol, the dissolved Tylenol will be reduced proportionally.
However, as I said before, using very few water lowers the codeine amount extracted because there will be a moisture content in the powder that you won't be able to squeeze out so the codeine yield will be:
Yield of codeine in % = 100[1 - (H2O in wet powder)/ (total H2O) - (Undissolved codeine)/(Total codeine)]
I'll explain this, if you understand it, disregard the explanation:
The moisture content of the powder will contain codeine because codeine dissolves very well in water:
High concentration solution, 60mg of codeine in 10mL of water. Moisture content = 1mL. Codeine Loss: 10% through moisture.
Low concentration solution, 60mg of codeine in 100mL of water. Moisture content = 1mL. Codeine Loss: 1% through moisture.
High concentration solution, 60mg of codeine in 10mL of water, Tylenol content = 0.08g
Low concentration solution, 60mg of codeine in 100mL of water, Tylenol content = 0.8g
So not wasting codeine dramatically increases the dissolved Tylenol so it is better to lose 10% codeine and have as few Tylenol as possible. With ibuprofen and aspirin, the solubility is much lower so the contamination is minimal and not worth being calculated. With theese you might push a little and increase the amount of water used.
This should help you figure out much more precisely what codeine amount you have in your extract in case you want to do like you said...extract, add alcohol and fridge your solution. I still don't like the idea of storing it as a liquid, I would extract it each time if I were you, just my opinion. Also make sure you store it in a GLASS bottle and not anything else because plastics leak small amounts of chemicals in solution on the long run and metals tend to be reactive.
The solubility figures on erowid's page are wrong:
http://www.erowid.org/pharms/codeine/codeine_faq.shtml
As well as on Wikipedia on Tuesday July 27 2010, corrected on July 28 2010:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol
Note also that the 2 wrong figures (1g/150mL and 14mg/mL) from the 2 sources don't even match!
______________________________________________________________________________
Source for the data from which I derived the polynomial formula:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/je990124v
Acetaminophen:
Temperature---Solubility in pure water in g/100mL
0°C---0.721
5°C---0.821
10°C---0.944
15°C---1.097
20°C---1.278
25°C---1.49
The Equation to calculate the solubility to any temperature below 25°C is therefore:
y = 0.0006x^2 + 0.0165x + 0.7221
Say you want to know the solubility at 3°C, you do:
y = 0.0006*3^2 + 0.0165*3 + 0.7221
y = 0.78g/100mL
High temperatures may show a deviation from the curve since the experimentation took place in between 0 and 25 degrees Celsius but the formula is 100% accurate between these boundaries.
Now say you are trying to obtain 60mg of codeine through CWE and you dispose of pills containing 8mg of codeine each.
60 / 8 = 7.5 pills
You put 8 pills to cover the small error in the procedure. The less water you use, the less codeine you'll be able to extract but if you use too much water, you'll get a lot of dissolved Tylenol so a balance must be found.
Pill:
500mg Tylenol
8mg Codeine
8x 500 = 4g of Tylenol.
If you use 30mL of water to extract the codeine from the 4g of Tylenol in icy water (0°C), you'll get:
0.721g * 0.3 = 0.2163g of Tylenol in solution. So how much Tylenol you separated?
0.2163(Tylenol in solution) / 4(total Tylenol used) = 94.6%
If you use less than 30mL of icy water to extract the codeine from 4g of Tylenol, the dissolved Tylenol will be reduced proportionally.
However, as I said before, using very few water lowers the codeine amount extracted because there will be a moisture content in the powder that you won't be able to squeeze out so the codeine yield will be:
Yield of codeine in % = 100[1 - (H2O in wet powder)/ (total H2O) - (Undissolved codeine)/(Total codeine)]
I'll explain this, if you understand it, disregard the explanation:
The moisture content of the powder will contain codeine because codeine dissolves very well in water:
High concentration solution, 60mg of codeine in 10mL of water. Moisture content = 1mL. Codeine Loss: 10% through moisture.
Low concentration solution, 60mg of codeine in 100mL of water. Moisture content = 1mL. Codeine Loss: 1% through moisture.
High concentration solution, 60mg of codeine in 10mL of water, Tylenol content = 0.08g
Low concentration solution, 60mg of codeine in 100mL of water, Tylenol content = 0.8g
So not wasting codeine dramatically increases the dissolved Tylenol so it is better to lose 10% codeine and have as few Tylenol as possible. With ibuprofen and aspirin, the solubility is much lower so the contamination is minimal and not worth being calculated. With theese you might push a little and increase the amount of water used.
This should help you figure out much more precisely what codeine amount you have in your extract in case you want to do like you said...extract, add alcohol and fridge your solution. I still don't like the idea of storing it as a liquid, I would extract it each time if I were you, just my opinion. Also make sure you store it in a GLASS bottle and not anything else because plastics leak small amounts of chemicals in solution on the long run and metals tend to be reactive.
The solubility figures on erowid's page are wrong:
http://www.erowid.org/pharms/codeine/codeine_faq.shtml
As well as on Wikipedia on Tuesday July 27 2010, corrected on July 28 2010:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol
Note also that the 2 wrong figures (1g/150mL and 14mg/mL) from the 2 sources don't even match!
______________________________________________________________________________
Source for the data from which I derived the polynomial formula:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/je990124v
Last edited:
geomantric
Bluelighter
When I used to take CWE I would freeze it, it lasted months. Usually in Ice cube tray so i had measured amount just pop a few cubes out in my drink when I wanted a relaxing arvo.. Cheers
Mr Blonde
Bluelighter
^ That's a damn good idea. I might do that. :D
