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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Codeine ROA: Best to combat tolerance?

pirat3

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
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the road to discovery
I have an extremely peculiar case of tolerance to codeine(at least i think i do anyways). I first experienced a codeine high when i was prescribed tylenol/codeine after i had my wisdom teeth removed. I managed to go through somewhere around 100 t3's in about 3 weeks, and by the end of it they didnt get me high anymore. after that, i pretty much didnt have any opiods for about four months. When that point came, i tried again with no luck. Another four months later (a total of 9 months since i started) i ended up popping 10 t3's trying to get a good high, and ended up just getting REALLY itchy and puking my brains out convinced that i was od'ing.

my question is, would choosing another ROA other than oral help? and if not, how do i get high off codeine again?
 
Nothing you can do about tolerance. It's inevitable. You should do a CWE on the t3's cause eating a lot of APAP will mess your stomach and liver up. Especially if you are eating them on an empty stomach. NSAIDs will make you feel sick if you don't have some food in your stomach.

Codeine has a ceiling effect, meaning after a certain amount (i believe its around 400mg) the effect does not increase. Remember you need to have Codeine metabolized into Morphine so bypassing the liver isn't an option really (rectal).
 
You may have built a semi-permanent tolerance to codeine. You could try a cold water extraction to ease the shock of acetaminophen to your system. Drinking grapefruit juice works with codeine to increase bioavailability, so that is another option. You could try rectal administration of the cwe solution, which is reported to ease side effects and also slightly boost bioavailability. Either way, you are never going to get as high off the same dose as you once did when you were completely opiate naive. You may have to either abstain, or find a stronger medicine, because the side effects of high doses of codeine can be unpleasant.
 
You dont want to inhibit the metabolization of Codeine with GF juice.. You need an inducer not inhibitor to hurry the Codeine into Morphine
 
This is from the opiate potentiation thread, originally posted by laceyk (I believe her word on opiates, and from my own experience with codeine, I have to concur):

laceyk said:
CODEINE
-Grapefruit juice (fresh works best, do not use sweetened grapefruit drinks you need the straight juice)
-Diphenhydramine (Benadryl)
-Promethazine (Phenergan) - Take after administering codeine, high will be shortened if taken before
-Orphenadrine
-Cyclobenzaprine
-Doxylamine Succinate (Active ingredient in NyQuil)
 
The conversion of codeine to morphine occurs in the liver and is catalysed by the cytochrome P450 enzyme CYP2D6. CYP3A4 produces norcodeine and UGT2B7 conjugates codeine, norcodeine, and morphine to the corresponding 3- and 6- glucuronides.

Grapefruit juice, and grapefruit in general, is a potent inhibitor of the intestinal cytochrome P450 enzyme CYP3A4.

It reduces the amount of codeine converted by CYP3A4 into norcodeine thus increasing the amount metabolised into morphine. Morphine itself, however, is not affected by grapefruit juice, as it is not metabolised by the cytochrome P450 system.

O-demethylation of codeine into morphine by CYP2D6 represents a minor pathway of codeine metabolism (accounting for less than 10 percent of codeine clearance) but is essential for its opioid activity. N-demethylation of codeine into norcodeine by CYP3A4 and the glucuronidation of codeine are the main pathways (accounting for more than 80 percent of codeine clearance) for converting the molecule into inactive compounds.


Some helpful info
 
^From what you just posted:

It reduces the amount of codeine converted by CYP3A4 into norcodeine thus increasing the amount metabolised into morphine.
 
I can say that Grapefruit Juice does work as a potentiator having done it myself with Tylenol 4. To the OP, if you hadn't gotten high off of opiates in 9 months, why are you popping 10 pills at once? Damn! I know Tylenol 3s are weak but shit dude. If it were me I would take 2-3 and crack one in half and also drink 16-32oz of GFJ. Then from there you can wait 20 mins and stack more pills on.

Watch it with Codeine though, it's a tricky one to dose sometimes, and I agree that Codeine especially seems to have a ceiling effect. Like 10 years ago I was at a concert with my annoying g/f and didn't have any pot or booze (boooo!) but did have a pocket full of T3s. I remember feeling PRETTY good by the 4th pill I greedily stuffed into my face, but I wanted more. I ate like 4-5 more over the next two hours and was PISSED. It seemed like there was no stage beyond numb with Codeine.
 
I/we should clarify that it's WHITE grapefruit juice we're talking about here. The Ruby Red version offers little to no benefit. White GFJ incidentally is actally kind of hard to find FYI. I went to 5 stores before I found any. Best to go straight to the supermarket if you're hoping to find some staight away.
 
I have an extremely peculiar case of tolerance to codeine(at least i think i do anyways). I first experienced a codeine high when i was prescribed tylenol/codeine after i had my wisdom teeth removed. I managed to go through somewhere around 100 t3's in about 3 weeks, and by the end of it they didnt get me high anymore. after that, i pretty much didnt have any opiods for about four months. When that point came, i tried again with no luck. Another four months later (a total of 9 months since i started) i ended up popping 10 t3's trying to get a good high, and ended up just getting REALLY itchy and puking my brains out convinced that i was od'ing.

my question is, would choosing another ROA other than oral help? and if not, how do i get high off codeine again?


its not worth administering codeine via any other route , it can be damn right dangerous. Intravenous administration will be incredibly painful and potentially deadly . the guys here have mentioned some stuff about potentiation , but to stick to your original question - you might find it better to switch to a stronger opiate. Codeine is fairly week - although some people (including myself) love it.

The people are right about high ammounts of apap (paracetamol) it is NOT a good idea to take 10 T3's! cold water extraction would be better (i have tried it - its ok i guess - i didnt die) , but best of all is try and get ur Doc to prescribe either

a) PURE codeine phosphate (30mg) try 5 of these on a fairly empty stomach.
b) PURE dihydrocodeine tartrate (30mg) (stronger) try 4 of these on a fairly empty stomach -
c) im not sure whether to suggest anything stronger.. i dont want you ODing on me

i cant give u advice on doctor shopping . its not allowed. try and be genuine and honest...

please remember mate that opiates are dangerous and can kill. Try and use them responsibly . use the net to learn and educate yourself before you go dabling. also acetaminophen (paracetamol) is hepatoxic (it destroys ur liver) - u need your liver.

have fun -

peace out

F M
 
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oh, I've done my research on stuff, and i didn't take then all at once. kind of like a six, and then another 4 and hour and a half later kind of thing. and thank you for your advice, but i've done my research on acetaminophen and seemed to be fine. This is the way that i look at it, my max dosage that they give you on the bottle is 1000 mg at a time. 4000 max allowed daily. 10 x 300 = 3000 mg, which is 3x the standard single dose. not really that high. i know that i'll probably get jumped all over for saying this, but I didnt die or have to go to the hospital with liver damage.

In short a guess, i know it was stupid but i would never go over that. I did my reseach and calculated the risk factor. But for future reference, did i puke my brains out because of the APAP or the codeine? I've read that that much codeine can be a bad time (300 is supposedly toxic according to a medical facts sheet that i read)
 
Remember you need to have Codeine metabolized into Morphine so bypassing the liver isn't an option really (rectal).

It doesn't matter, as long as the codeine is absorbed into the bloodstream your liver will metabolize it, oral, rectal, IM, it doesn't matter, your liver will metabolize it.
 
i'm really wishing that i had taken biology in school but i was pretty sure that rectal was still an option. I've heard conflicting views on APAP taken recrally, one saying it doesn't really absorb that way and that it would just kind of chill there until you took care of your business the next time, the other said that it was really dangerous. Thoughts, or citations perhaps?
 
Do NOT put any APAP up there, just to be on the safe side IMO. The only time I'd plug codeine is from a CWE or pure codeine tablets crushed and mixed with water (never encountered tablets only containing codeine however), it hits harder and faster in liquid form rather then a solid tablet too.
 
Do NOT put any APAP up there, just to be on the safe side IMO. The only time I'd plug codeine is from a CWE or pure codeine tablets crushed and mixed with water (never encountered tablets only containing codeine however), it hits harder and faster in liquid form rather then a solid tablet too.

Despite how it may seem, APAP is actually fine to plug. I mean I would always CWE it anyway, but they make APAP suppositories and its well-tolerated.
 
I recommend using promethazine (over the counter) or some other anti-histamine. It kills the nausea/vomiting (to 100% in my experience), you feel more of a nod and less itchy. Promethazine is a must-have drug for an opiate naive person. 25 mg will do. Promethazine should be taken after codeine has been metabolized into morphine (which means when you start feeling the drug), otherwise, less codeine will turn into morphine.

As to the ROA, oral administration is good (parachuting or just eating the pills), do NOT sniff/IV codeine, plugging (rectal administration) can be considered but I'm not a plugging expert.

As it has been reminded, T3 contains APAP, so do a CWE or you'll regret it. I find 150-200mg to be a good dose for a first-timer.
 
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oh, I've done my research on stuff, and i didn't take then all at once. kind of like a six, and then another 4 and hour and a half later kind of thing. and thank you for your advice, but i've done my research on acetaminophen and seemed to be fine. This is the way that i look at it, my max dosage that they give you on the bottle is 1000 mg at a time. 4000 max allowed daily. 10 x 300 = 3000 mg, which is 3x the standard single dose. not really that high. i know that i'll probably get jumped all over for saying this, but I didnt die or have to go to the hospital with liver damage.

In short a guess, i know it was stupid but i would never go over that. I did my reseach and calculated the risk factor. But for future reference, did i puke my brains out because of the APAP or the codeine? I've read that that much codeine can be a bad time (300 is supposedly toxic according to a medical facts sheet that i read)

you probably puked cause of the codeine man 300mg is too much unless u have a really high tolerance even then - its very high i think the lethal death rate for 50% of the population (LD50) is around the 400mg mark (prob slightly higher) . your getting close to that.

i dont mean to patronize u only to educate. And im certainly not gonna judge you - it may seem like i think i know best but trust bruv i dont.

I would still be careful tho - it really isnt safe to take 10 of them - please trust me on this. u will damage ur liver - a little bit - everytime u take this much . get the pure stuff (it exists - i promise)

maybe u should take a potentiator. rectal admin - is not worth it. the guys are right as long as it enters ur bloodstream ur liver will metabolize it into morphine. it could be that u are a poor metabolizer of codeine - about 7% of the white population dont really metabolize codeine that well due to a deficiency in cyp 2d6 (the enzyme in the liver which converts it into morphine.)

If this is the case then codeine wont be for u. u will get the bad effects (nausea - vomitting - itching) - without much of the high - no fun.

can u get hold of anything stronger? if u can u need to be more conservative with ur doses. Please come back to me for further advice if your gonna try anything else. Whilst im the first to admit i am not omniscient, i do know a fair bit about psychoactive meds. (ive studied them for about a decade.)

peace

F M
 
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i'm really wishing that i had taken biology in school but i was pretty sure that rectal was still an option. I've heard conflicting views on APAP taken recrally, one saying it doesn't really absorb that way and that it would just kind of chill there until you took care of your business the next time, the other said that it was really dangerous. Thoughts, or citations perhaps?

Rectal absorption of codeine phosphate from various dosage forms was studied in man. The rectal dosage forms included aqueous solutions and fatty suppositories. A comparison was made with an orally administered solution. The plasma concentrations of codeine were measured by means of HPLC analysis after a single dose of 60 mg codeine phosphate in a cross-over study in 7 volunteers. Compared with oral dosing rectal absorption from an aqueous solution or a fatty suppository produced an almost identical plasma concentration profile with similar interindividual variations. Comparing the absorption rate characteristics it appeared that rectal absorption from an alkaline solution containing codeine phosphate proceeded significantly (P less than 0.05) more rapid than after oral dosing. No essential difference in bioavailability was observed between the various rectal and oral dosage forms.
 
^Actually the LD50 of codeine is 800mg.

Last time I did a cwe on codeine, I dosed with 600mg. I got very high, and very ill.
 
I recommend using promethazine (over the counter) or some other anti-histamine. It kills the nausea/vomiting (to 100% in my experience), you feel more of a nod and less itchy. Promethazine is a must-have drug for an opiate naive person. 25 mg will do. Promethazine should be taken after codeine has been metabolized into morphine (which means when you start feeling the drug), otherwise, less codeine will turn into morphine.

As to the ROA, oral administration is good (parachuting or just eating the pills), do NOT sniff/IV codeine, plugging (rectal administration) can be considered but I'm not a plugging expert.

As it has been reminded, T3 contains APAP, so do a CWE or you'll regret it. I find 150-200mg to be a good dose for a first-timer.

good advice here.
 
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