CNS depressants+stimulants. The best of both worlds or the worst?

[Biovail]

I'm not talking about speedballing really, but is the result of taking both these types drugs usually a bad? My case:

I can have bad social anxiety in situations with people I'm not well acquainted with. Specifically if this happens when going to a concert, I lock up and it's no fun. Getting drunk (or heavily buzzed) usually fixes this, but then I get all the negative aspects of being drunk at a concert. The only drugs I have access to at the moment that would be helpful are opioids (specifically hydrocodone and oxycodone). These are really a miracle drug when it comes to anxiety disorders and they completely fix me without fucking me up. The problem is that they tend to be fairly sedating, so I can't see them working well at a concert. if I were to drink a few cups of strong coffee (which already induces some opioid-like euphoria and anxiety relief) for a heavy caffeine buzz after taking one of those two listed drugs would the outcome be disastrous? I was hoping that the caffeine would cancel out the drowsiness feeling of the opioids while leaving the anxiolytic effect intact.

Better yet, any personal experiences/anecdotes would be immensely helpful.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

I also get social anxiety sometimes. I find the caffeine in coffee to be one of the very worst things for exarcebating these problems. I feel 100 % calmer and saner and more in control without any strong caffeinated drinks or nicotine in my system. But i still go through phases of being mildly addicted to both.

I know what you mean about depressants maybe being too sedating for nights out. Ive never tried mixing caffeine with strong depressants, as ive always found that coffee before a night out can be a bit of a disaster for me on the anxiety front. A little alcohol helps slightly, but not very much, and too much and i can just become brain dead and withdrawn in social situations that im uncomfotrable in. I have been taking small doses of etizolam occasionaly at home in the evenings for a couple of months now, as a relaxant, sleep aid and to end stimulant binges, this also has the added bonus for me of reducing anxiety on the day after. I dont wish to develop a dependence on these things though, so am usually limiting my usage to 2-3 days a week. I have never taken one for a night out though, as it could mean becoming fucked up far too quickly as alcohol would inevitably be involved.

IME experience i have found that speed can make me feel poised & confident in social situations, but it can also be unpredictable for me as it can also make me feel moody as fuck and depressed. It would be irresponsible of me to suggest this as a way of fixing social problems, as it can definately make your state of mind far worse thatn it was originally for several days after taking it.

I think the best advice would be to see a GP. I have found eliminating coffee and taking prescribed SSRIs like sertraline to be the most helpful things in reducing social anxiety. Exercise can also help. Getting out to the mountains and countryside helps me a lot, i feel totally at home and at ease there and its very calming and restores perspective if you ever start to loose it like i sometimes do. It can be too easy to reach for a pill or drug, but i would say thats not really the best long term solution to problems for most people.

 

[Doug2113]

I personally would suggest taking a mg or 2 of klonipin. These would help me SO much when I did meth without really affecting the energy I had. That would probably help you without making you super sleepy. If you can't get ahold of this, maybe .5mg of xanax (unless you know that knocks you flat on your ass), OR maybe 10mg of hydrocodone/5-7.5mg oxy, OR no more than 2-3 shots of alcohol/a 24-32oz beer. I would avoid the caffeine if you're trying to avoid anxiety, OR I would take 15-20mg of hydrocodone/7.5-10mg oxy paired up with an energy drink, but don't do it with a redline lol. If anything, I would go with one of the starbucks+energy energy drinks (the starbucks drinks you buy in gas stations that are in the 16-oz cans, not the glass bottles). Those have a decent amount of caffeine (I think about 220mg or so as opposed to the 316mg in the 8 oz redlines/355 in the 22oz NOS drinks).

But as the 1st reply said THE BEST thing would be to speak with a doctor about your social anxiety disorder. They would be able to help you the best.

 

[effie]

There is no inherent danger mixing downers and stims - the concern with speedballs etc is that the stim can mask the effects of the other, increasing the risk of going to far with the downers and ODing when the stims wear off. Caffeine and opioids is fine, but make sure you don't take too many opioids as you don't feel as sedated sedated while the caffeine is in your system..

Using opiods regularly for anxiety is asking for trouble too - they do work well in the short term, but tolerance and dependence plus psychological addiction mean they are not a viable long-term choice...

I wouldn't recommend using benzos too much for anxiety either, for the same reasons..

Finally, be careful mixing your downers. Alcohol and opioids, or alcohol and benzos, or opioids and benzos potentiate each other and make it a lot easier to overdo things and it can become a very dangerous mix. I know you didn't mention doing that, but is something to bear in mind if you start taking opioids or benzos when out amd about..

Have you thought about beta-blockers to help with the physical sde effects of anxiety?

More long term - something like CBT can help tackle the anxiety itself rather than just mask the synptoms. Well worth looking into. There are some good online resources out there - google MoodGym and Living Life to the Full

Stay safe!

 

[nAON]

If you're main problem is anxiety, benzos are probably your best bet short term (xanax, valium, etc.). Though as posts above said, long-term you can get serious problems from using them regularly.

Also, what different stimulants have you tried?

 

[DJW]

See a GP. Plain and Simple.

 

[Violenza666]

If 5-10mg of Hydrocodone or Oxycodone sedates you then get some expresso. I find 3 expresso plus my usual dose of my DOC which is Oxymorphone will keep me up and anxiety free... also a nice buzz to boot! My tolerance is way higher than yours though so if you low dose and use caffeine anxiety should not be a problem at all. I also take Valium and Klonopin for anxiety problems, but I am in no way suggesting you should mix opiates and benzos. Good luck!

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

Lots of good posts.

As effie mentioned, the true danger in mixing uppers and downers is that people tend to push one too far, because their judgement is clouded by the effects of the combination, or they don't feel the true side effects of one of the drugs because the other one is counter-acting them.

A good example would be mixing stimulants with benzodiazepines, or mixing stimulants with opioids and benzodiazepines. Alcohol fits in here too. Both benzos and alcohol inhibit judgement and reason with even lower doses, so you're more likely to take more of the other drugs than you normally would.

Caffeine is an interesting drug, tolerance to it will grow extremely quick, same with amphetamines. Be careful if you're chugging energy drinks or coffee with your opiates. Caffeine withdrawal is very real and isn't very fun at all. The last thing you want is to be withdrawaling from two drugs at the same time instead of one...

Good luck!

 

[phatass]

if you're going to take oxy or hydro at the concert, do you have access to stims, like amphetamines (aderall, Ritalin, dexedrine etc.) or stim RC's like mephedrone, 2-FA, or maybe a combo with some good xtc or cocaine

 

[Biovail]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I read through this the other night but didn't have a chance to reply before going out.

This is basically what I had thought was the case about combing the two, but wanted to be safe. The only stims I've tried are caffeine, all the crap they put in energy drinks, and adderall. I'm not a fan of benzos either. Plus, if I'm going to fuck up my memory I'd rather get drunk and make it more fun On the note of my anxiety condition itself, it seems like there's more than just anxiety at play. I do have social anxiety that many people feel, but I also have this "brain dead" or "zoned/dazed" feeling constantly (or quite often) that prevents me from following conversations or having responses to what people say. I fairly sure this is just a symptom of ADHD, and I suppose I should talk to my doc about it, but stims (and opioids too strangely) are the only things that fix this. Weed does nothing to help this, and neither does alcohol. I assume benzos wouldn't either.

Anyway, I ended up going to see a different friend's band play a show (I know this group of friends much better), so I didn't think I'd need anything aside from the coffee to keep me awake, and knew I'd end up smoking weed anyway. Well, the band ended up playing at a massive party with around a hundred people packed into a tiny yard. Not the environment I expected. Ended up drinking about 2.5 cups of coffee and a massive amount of weed. I was definitely more social, but my anxiety was still off the charts. I became extremely conscious of my physical self, the anxiety I was feeling and how it made me act. I had fun dancing (it seems confidence and anxiety can coexist somehow, occupying different parts of the mind, at least when I'm really stoned) but the anxiety was definitely there and really detracted form the night. I've come to the conclusion that weed isn't the "everything drug" people around here seem to treat it as. It has it's uses (mainly chilling with friend's at their houses or wherever, doing stupid stuff that's normally not fun), but those uses are limited.

I have been looking into beta blockers though. I'm hoping that those, combined with therapeutic doses of adderall (which I should be prescribed for ADHD) might provide what I need to reduce both my mental and physical anxiety. Adderall generally isn't considered too "fun" or party-oriented, so I'm now looking for something I can take once a week or so for a friday or saturday night out. I'm thinking possibly a MDxx substitute but the toxicity of taking something like that on a weekly basis worries me. Are all drugs used at parties going to have negative effects at least as bad as MDMA? I would never take E on a weekly basis... I'm not necessarily looking for something with the "magic" of MDMA. I just want something to give me the energy to get up and dance, hopefully reducing mental anxiety at the same time, that I can take at least once a week without the permanent nerotoxicity I'd get with MDMA/MDA.

Or is that what everybody around here wants?...

 

[mrflippy]

I have the same problem you do, Anxiety making almost every living minute just slightly too uncomfortable, and the beeeest way to live, coming from a man with ADHD, GAD(Generalized anxiety disorder), and SA, a daily dose of 4-FA with either A beta blocker or clonazepam.. best days. when the anxiety is gone, drugs become recreational again

 

[effie]

^ just bear in mind that a daily dose of a stimulant will lead to your tolerance increasing, and likely an increase in your dose, not to mention possible psychological addiction. I can appreciate how good it must be when all your anxiety is gone, but if you are also getting something recreational from the 4-FA I'd be very concerned about becoming addictied.. also, 4-FA is a fairly new drug and there isn't a lot of data about it's safety long-term.

Sorry to sound so pessimistic, if it works for you and you can keep your doses down then great! Posts like that just make me worry

 

[Biovail]

I don't think he was talking about recreational value from the 4-FA. Rather I think he was saying recreational drugs tend to lose their fun when you still feel overwhelmed by anxiety while on them. Many drugs (ie LSD) are 5HT agonists and actually increase anxiety while on them. For most people this isn't an issue. But when anxiety makes day to day life uncomfortable in the first place, that 5HT antagonism is sometimes enough to make your LSD trip somewhere you don't want to be. Same goes more or less for most other drugs, even weed. Thanks for the concern though

And mrflippy, have you tried adderall before? And if you have, how would you say it compares to 4-FA? I haven't read much on the latter but it always seemed like a more recreational form of straight amphetamine to me. What's your dosage like for therapeutic purposes?