Benzos Clobromazolam / Phenazolam Megathread

[pcplease]

i would recommend 1mg/ml due to convenience/ease of measuring out 0.25mg. 30-50ml glass dropper bottles are very cheap.

there is no black and white answer to how much phenazolam one might need to equate to 10mg alpraz. it is so much shorter lasting, a weaker muscle relaxer etc. theres gonna be a mental hurdle/habit to break as well, since people constantly redose alprazolam through the day. If someone can avoid scratching the itch that "I could be feeling it just a little bit more", esp after the main 8-12hr peak, they will probably do fine on 1mg/day but maybe as little as 0.5mg without the constant up/down of the rapid nature of alprazolam. again there's just no way to tell. given that it is so much stronger and longer lasting, someone could easily wind up with worse habit than 10mg/alpraz (which is bad)

 

[deficiT]

I've gone through and merged all of the main threads about clobromazolam and created a megathread here for anyone looking for info about this substance

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

i would recommend 1mg/ml due to convenience/ease of measuring out 0.25mg. 30-50ml glass dropper bottles are very cheap.

there is no black and white answer to how much phenazolam one might need to equate to 10mg alpraz. it is so much shorter lasting, a weaker muscle relaxer etc. theres gonna be a mental hurdle/habit to break as well, since people constantly redose alprazolam through the day. If someone can avoid scratching the itch that "I could be feeling it just a little bit more", esp after the main 8-12hr peak, they will probably do fine on 1mg/day but maybe as little as 0.5mg without the constant up/down of the rapid nature of alprazolam. again there's just no way to tell. given that it is so much stronger and longer lasting, someone could easily wind up with worse habit than 10mg/alpraz (which is bad)

I agree with this as a rough guide. I assume it is plenty soluble to go as far as you want --- I went up to 300 per 30ml which was obviously too much and in the middle of a long run (and c-lam no phenazolam) but it was a constant concern as I used 151 as a solvent and have dumb friends -- well marked bottle do not consume, jolly rogers.

.5 sounds about right on the low side 1 sounds about right if you wanna be comfortable but the halflife is much longer so dose less of course. I would think you could go from like 3mg Xanax daily to 1 phenazolam as it stays in your system all day but these are all educated estimates. Everyone is different everyone's context is different.

 

[pcplease]

0.25mg is equivalent to 1-2mg clonazepam or phenazepam. Its an incredibly potent chem, and a lot more reliable dosed volumetrically than a press which you may literally never "feel" hit.

0.25mg should be considered moderate and above that heavy as with clonazolam.. It is approximately 6-8x potency of alprazolam.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

6 x 8 potency of alprazolam --- I'd say 4x tops from personal experience... But it has a euphoria you will never find in a phenazepam or a Clonazepam.c
I am very very aware of that one in particular and I think it gets a bad rap as the boogey man of benzo's. IMO it just has the highest euphoria value and ppl are gunna chase that (I certainly did). In 5 days it will be legal stateside again! (not that there is still a supply of it---STILL)

Phenazepam was alot harder to control responsibly due to the long ass onset time, it building up every day etc. Probably be a perfect benzo to use to permaquit though -- little euphoria and long halflife.

 

[4DQSAR]

I still suggest that whoever is producing this seeminly endless stream of 1,4-benzodiazepine derivatives must have limited understand of HOW the class of drug works.

Because in many ways, the 1,5 benzodiazpines have far more to offer. You can add a triazolo ring and add 3-methyl moieties (vastly increases affinity) just like the 1,4 benzodiazepines.

As diazepam is to clobazam,
So Alprazolam is to clobazolam

As nitrazepam is to nitrazam (the active metabolite of CP-1414S) - also the N-methyl derivative twice as potent)
So nitrazolam is to nipazolam (the triazolo derivative of the CP-1414S metabolite)

Yes, all 1,5 benzodiazepines appear to be ½ as potent as their 1,4 counterparts, BUT they bind at different receptor subtypes so do not demonstrate cross tolerance. But if it were me, I would be producing tablets that contained a 1:2 ratio of those last two compounds. Because when you mix a 1,4 benzodiazepine with a 1,5 benzodiazepine, that hugely increases the psychoactive effects. From the limited research we carried out (the 1,5 counterparts of pyrazolam, pynazolam and pyeyzolam) we found it took 25-30mg of pyeyzolam (the alcohol mimic) the 1:2 ratios of the 1,4 to 1,5 wasn't additive, it multiplied the effect thus the pyeyzolam/pyeyzam mixture was active at 40mg. The KEY improvement being that pyeyzolam only emulates 'drunk' where as the mixture allowed intoxication from the 'single glass of wine' at 5mg to the 'falling down drunk'* at 40mg.

*I use the term idiomatically. While high doses would have people a little unsteady on their feet, they could walk (to bed) if they wanted. What was so loverly was the day after consuming pyeyzolam and/or pyeyzam, you feel fine. I mean well rested, no hangover and what I think is the important bit - no rebound anxiety so no compulsion to take it night after night after night.

But the problem we faced was that the entire alcohol industry would make it their mission to prevent any alcohol mimic ever being retailed anywhere in the world.

I suggested right away that gaining a GSL so classifying the mixture as a medicine to treat alcoholics and only then moving towards making it an OTC was the only way to do it. But that wouldn't 'optimize the yield of shareholder dividents in the short to medium term' i.e. they were reluctant to even fully test the stuff which, I suggest, you really need to do be it a medicine, food supplement, food or other.

The magic is finding a single compound that will act on all the sites 1,4-benzodiazepine do and all the sites a 1,5-benzodiazpine do. We managed that, eventually.

 

[NeedleJuice369]

I agree with this as a rough guide. I assume it is plenty soluble to go as far as you want --- I went up to 300 per 30ml which was obviously too much and in the middle of a long run (and c-lam no phenazolam) but it was a constant concern as I used 151 as a solvent and have dumb friends -- well marked bottle do not consume, jolly rogers.
.
.5 sounds about right on the low side 1 sounds about right if you wanna be comfortable but the halflife is much longer so dose l ecc freess of course. I would think you could go from like 3mg XRd fanax daily to 1 phenazolam as it stays in your system all day but these are all educated estimates. Everyone is different everyone's context is different.

I have the same exact mixture. 100 mg in 10 ml with Proplyne glycol being heated to 140 degrees a few times until it has broken all the way down.

What works best with solubility? Food grade ethanol is what I read a vendor was using on something called di-clobromazolam at 74°. I quickly realized he meant Celsius as he was from New Zealand. But food grade PG at the same temperature

Also this dose is for LITERAL DROPS. as I believe it is .5mg a drop. Meaning I want it on paper, perforated.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Mine was C-lam in 151 or 153 (store brand) ethanol. I had to make it myself and would lose 5-15 mg every time I made a bottle so I tried to make em as few as possible -- when I tapered I just lowered the concentration slowly over a great period of time **which was frustrating as I had less I was losing more (Ratio wise of waste to product in solution at least) to making bottles up** . (Stirring things into solution is my level of chemistry lol)

Does ethanol (?) you lost me there -- but I heard long-term ethanol is less damaging than propylene glycol for consumption. Obviously neither are vitamins lol

 

[NeedleJuice369]

Mine was C-lam in 151 or 153 (store brand) ethanol. I had to make it myself and would lose 5-15 mg every time I made a bottle so I tried to make em as few as possible -- when I tapered I just lowered the concentration slowly over a great period of time **which was frustrating as I had less I was losing more (Ratio wise of waste to product in solution at least) to making bottles up** . (Stirring things into solution is my level of chemistry lol)

Does ethanol (?) you lost me there -- but I heard long-term ethanol is less damaging than propylene glycol for consumption. Obviously neither are vitamins lol

Read my edited version

 

[deficiT]

I agree with this as a rough guide. I assume it is plenty soluble to go as far as you want --- I went up to 300 per 30ml which was obviously too much and in the middle of a long run (and c-lam no phenazolam) but it was a constant concern as I used 151 as a solvent and have dumb friends -- well marked bottle do not consume, jolly rogers.

.5 sounds about right on the low side 1 sounds about right if you wanna be comfortable but the halflife is much longer so dose less of course. I would think you could go from like 3mg Xanax daily to 1 phenazolam as it stays in your system all day but these are all educated estimates. Everyone is different everyone's context is different.

I would usually just make all my solutions as .5 - 1ml is a dose or two tops.

In 30ml bottles I would just put 30mg of bromazolam, but I think eventually I went up to 60mg for 2mg/ml, mixed with propylene glycol. Let it set before going in.

I'm wary of making super concentrated solutions tbh, I don't see the value in it, at least for personal use. Unless you're like, low on solvent? I think it's very easy to misgauge how much substance you are imbibing when you have a super concentrated solution.

 

[deficiT]

I made clonazolam .5mg/ml, putting 15mg into 30ml. If people have concerns about the potency or dilution of this one, making a weaker solution can help.

I'm not sure that this is as strong as clonazolam in general though or by mg. I am taking presses though, but to me, .5mg of clobromazolam feels fairly comparable to basically .5mg -1mg Clonazepam, somewhere in the middle there. I feel it shares some similarities with that one, hard to put a finger on, whereas bromazolam is more akin to alprazolam or lorazepam.

 

[Esperighanto]

I'm wary of making super concentrated solutions tbh, I don't see the value in it, at least for personal use. Unless you're like, low on solvent? I think it's very easy to misgauge how much substance you are imbibing when you have a super concentrated solution.

In my experience the only time this is necessary is laying blotter, you want as much material in just the right amount of solvent, and usually that right amount is very tiny. Outside of that niche application though, especially in the context of volumetric liquid dosing, a dose per half mL is as far as I trust most peoples' hands with a dropper, personally. I've used etizolam, MDMB-4en-PINACA, LSD, 2C-B, and a few others as dropwise solutions and that shit was always HIGHLY irregular to work with.

 

[pcplease]

They do generally have little to no understanding of QSAR, and continue to prove it.

 

[pcplease]

6 x 8 potency of alprazolam --- I'd say 4x tops from personal experience... But it has a euphoria you will never find in a phenazepam or a Clonazepam.c
I am very very aware of that one in particular and I think it gets a bad rap as the boogey man of benzo's. IMO it just has the highest euphoria value and ppl are gunna chase that (I certainly did). In 5 days it will be legal stateside again! (not that there is still a supply of it---STILL)

Phenazepam was alot harder to control responsibly due to the long ass onset time, it building up every day etc. Probably be a perfect benzo to use to permaquit though -- little euphoria and long halflife.

I tried phenazolam after over a year break from benzos, at 0.25mg sublingually., noticable physical effects of bzd (slowed heart rate) began within 15min, and about 90min the euphoria hit and was stumbling. It is just more subtle IMO. tested again a few weeks later and didnt notice anything til around 90min, and was noticably high and happy all day, still feeling its muscle relaxation and physical weakness well into work the next day, no euphoria at that poin, though.

 

[4DQSAR]

They do generally have little to no understanding of QSAR, and continue to prove it.

Yeah - I think the greatest indictment is that they don't see the 'bigger picture'.

Just mixing a 1,4 benzodiazepine with it's 1.5 counterpart makes the resulting mixture way more potent. OK, I've only tried this with three combinations (pyrazolamyrazam, pyeyezolamyeyzam and pynazolamynazam) but in each case we saw an increase of around x5 in each case (compared to the 1,4-benzodiazepine alone).

If anyone doubts me, try 20mg of diazepam with 10mg of clobazam (both are available I'm given to understand). But be careful - it's incompatible with simple things like standing up.

 

[pcplease]

I am smart enough realize i should virtually never doubt you about this stuff.

Fingers crossed Pynazolam has indeed been produced in CN. As unlikely as it is that a CN source, with a history of multiple seizures of huge quantities of benzos, which happened to many CN vendors that she could have simply been dropshipping from.. As many chinese vendors are at small markups. I contacted Kykeon to confirm they would be able to identify it.. not sure shes ever offered a truly new to market benzo or chemical... My hopes are not high to say the least.

 

[4DQSAR]

Yeah - it took US 11 tries. The problem was that as the reaction proceded, at a certain point a side-product would appear. We tried multiple solvents (including mixtures), we tried changing other reaction conditions and in the end we had to say 'f**k it, preparative chromatogrpahy here we come'. Nobody likes to admit defeat. Moderate yield but with side-products that are easy to remove are fine. I THINK we eventually managed 76% but as I say - preparative chromatography was how we ended up solving it.

FYI the one we never made was tentatively known as 'trisizolam' which had a trimethyl silyl moiety at the 8 position. But I am wary of silicon in medicines. I know even quite famous medicinal chemists such as Derek Lowe have worked with silanes but for one reason or another, they always seem to have 'issues' and I felt 'well, an ethynyl is in LOTS of medicines' which I admit, is hardly a scientific explaination... but you would be amazed at just how important serendipity is to drug discovery.

Pyrophenidone was accidentally discovered while we were working on diphenidine, as an example.

 

[pcplease]

How high did anyone test Pynazolam??? Just curious. I know Pyrazolam was up to 100mg, but Pynaz being a nitro... I forgot to ask you about it the other day. Also, presumably less pure than 76%.. do you know how toxic those might be? and what should I look into when presumably needing to purifying it??

Yeah - it took US 11 tries. The problem was that as the reaction proceded, at a certain point a side-product would appear. We tried multiple solvents (including mixtures), we tried changing other reaction conditions and in the end we had to say 'f**k it, preparative chromatogrpahy here we come'. Nobody likes to admit defeat. Moderate yield but with side-products that are easy to remove are fine. I THINK we eventually managed 76% but as I say - preparative chromatography was how we ended up solving it.

FYI the one we never made was tentatively known as 'trisizolam' which had a trimethyl silyl moiety at the 8 position. But I am wary of silicon in medicines. I know even quite famous medicinal chemists such as Derek Lowe have worked with silanes but for one reason or another, they always seem to have 'issues' and I felt 'well, an ethynyl is in LOTS of medicines' which I admit, is hardly a scientific explaination... but you would be amazed at just how important serendipity is to drug discovery.

Pyrophenidone was accidentally discovered while we were working on diphenidine, as an example.

 

[4DQSAR]

How high did anyone test Pynazolam??? Just curious. I know Pyrazolam was up to 100mg, but Pynaz being a nitro... I forgot to ask you about it the other day. Also, presumably less pure than 76%.. do you know how toxic those might be? and what should I look into when presumably needing to purifying it??

Good question - and one I do not have an answer for. Being a nitrobenzodiazepine we were naturally a lot more cautious, Even for the cohort stufy (87) we produced 5mg capsules so that people knew just how much they were consuming, I believe more people took 10mg and decided that was sufficient 'how much bliss does one perso need?' but persoanlly I pushed it to 35mg and had someone collect plasma and urine samples (I just lay on my bed, grinning) and was gratified to discover that unlike all the other nitrobenzodiazepines, that nitro is NOT reduced (so no toxic metabolites). Almost all of the pynazolam was excreted unchanged.

I suggest that the toxicity of pynazolam is mediated by it's potential ability to produce serotonin syndrome.

It has no a1 affinity (the site nitrobenzodiazepines and Z-drugs hit to produce the hypnotic effect most are used for). It's termed a 'frustrated a1 ligand) but it still had a2/a3 affinity (but not a5). So the best description I have even been able to give it 'a benzodiazepine with MDMA-like mood alterations).

In essence VERY euphoric. We envisioned it being for 2-4 weeks in depressed pateints, the dose being 5mg once at bedtime so it bridged the gap between presentation and typical antidepressants acting. Only later did we get the reports that pynazolam was predictably euproic.

I wager it's more toxic than pyezolam but less toxic than nitrazepam BUT has the unique contraindication - not to be prescribed in patients who have recieved MAOIs in the previous 28 days.

We thought about it a lot. I've alreadly listed out priorities and with pynazolam, I would never suggest anyone consume more than 10mg nor mix it with any drug with MAOI activity.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

a benzo with MDMA like effects sounds like the holy grail. serotonin so no MAOI's (Same as MDMA).

very interesting/promising about the most excited ive been about a substance since I heard oxymorphone was going to hit the market (but before I knew they'd ruin it thoroughly in pill form).

I don't think I ever noticed the damn n and thought you were talking about pyrazolam the whole time and kept thinking 'there was nothin special bout that one' (To me at least)