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Cleanest stims for chronic use?

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LuxEtVeritas

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Wanted to get some opinions on cleanest stim for non-rec chronic use (chronic fatigue, insomniacs, et al)
i guess ultimate criteria is a clean feel for focus, mood, least potential sides, least tolerance, ability to not interfere with sleep et al)

was thinking offhand modafinil and analogues and sulbutiamine
 
sulbutiamine??? What a massive fucking structure.
274px-Sulbutiamine_structure.svg.png


Have you ever tried this? I can't imagine it's much of a stimulant with all that bulk, is it?

I'd say modafinil or low dose amphetamine (5-10mg/day) with weekend or otherwise frequent breaks.
 
I think dextroamphetamine at therapeutic doses (varies by the individual, but low enough that it does not interfere with sleep), methylphenidate SR at therapeutic doses or modafinil 200mg qD. All of these should be taken in the morning, obviously. Once you reach a dose that works, do not go over that dose, otherwise tolerance will probably start to occur. You may also want to try pramiracetam or phenylpiracetam, but both are extraordinarily pricy. Bupropion also has some very mild stimulant properties; just don't ever take more than 450mg per day (seizure risk).

Sulbutiamine is worthless as a real stimulant. It is simply a Vitamin B analogue that was promoted by a "fitness supplement" company as the end-all, be-all eXtreme stimulant--as with 'extreme' products, this turned out to be all advertising with little or no actual evidence.
 
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For maintinance use, I'd personally stick with Tea.

Green tea, that is. And lots of it. Perhaps with the occasional helping of coca tea.

You really do not want anything heavier than that because it seems that the whole definition of stronger catecholamine-dependent stims goes contrary to the definition of safety - as in, you simply cannot be healthy and have a lifetime binge on amphetamines. I'm not even going to talk about effects on sleep.
 
I love the taste of coca tea. I've never noticed anything even as strong as caffeine from it though.
 
I agree with Jamshyd on this one…

chronic stimulant abuse catches up with you quicker than you think
 
^ no doubt

that is why i was wanting to see the opinion on what may be best

i still think i am leaning to a combo of modafinil and sulbutiamine (sulbu does have some reasonable "wakefulness" promoting quaLITIES) and with maybe intermittent use of simple teas
 
You weren't asking about abuse. You were talking about long term non-recreational use. The brains of children-turned-adults on long-term MPH or AMP don't vary a whole lot from their normal counter parts from the images I've seen.

Assuming weekend breaks and low doses, there's no reason it'll interfere with sleep or anything else.

The longest I've ever taken it though was about 6 months straight (10mg daily, sundays off)
 
no, agreed low dose AMPH is certainly also somethng i considered as an option, but i think it still has a somewhat greater degree of undesirable characateristics above say modafinil

but certainly i feel it is a valid opinion that it is not to be wholly dismissed

so you feel you had a highly positive experience with 10mg taken I assume early in the morning fro that period...can you either here or PM give me a bit of detail on this?
 
I can only agree with what you have proposed.

I had problems with EDS and tried dex, but it really did play havoc on my body after a while.

Modafinil on the other hand worked wonders.
 
Yeah, it was a very good experience. I can't think of a negative side effect, although towards the end I had lost more weight than I'd have liked.

Would have been easily avoided, but it was too easy to just not eat.
 
yup, i was also going to mention lower anorexic effect (almost all stims have some anorexic effect) is of interest as well

modafinil is noted to be anorexigenic as well but i think not to the same degree from what i have seen/read (at lower doses)

i guess if anyone has some more insigtful (and obscure) knowledge here it would perhaps be FnB...
 
Modafinil is extremely transparent... I would vote for that as the best stimulant (I've tried) for non-recreational use. Recreationally, it's useless, IMO.
 
Chewing coca leaves or coca tea has been used chronically for hundreds if not thousands of years by the Andean population with relatively minor problems. Unfortunately though, thats not an option for most people.

While maybe not strong enough for everybody, I think neurotransmitter precursors like DLPA and tyrosine are probably the best bet long term, and things like ginseng and kola nut. Betel nut is the fifth most widely used 'drug' on the planet (afiak) yet most people have never heard of it. Its got its share of problems and is not totally benign, but can be a fairly effective stimulant, maybe something to look into. I think going the pharm route will eventually fuck most people, its just a matter of when in my opinion.
 
If you are prescribed dexamph and are properly titrated I believe it's the best stimulant of them all (but i've only tried a few so what..)

If you do a search in the literature the only sitmulant u will find very postive things being said about is dexamph (and believe me I have searched the literature, I wrote a small 10 page research paper on it and used quiet a few sources)


but of course it helps those that have ADHD far more than it helps those who don't have ADHD

(but if ur using drugs in the first place, supposidly there's a higher chance that u might have ADHD)
 
*shrug* When I was prescribed dexamp., I started out at the low Rxed doses. I noticed that the side effects (crash) outweigh whatever other effects the drug had. This caused me to up my doses to cover the crash, which worked, but produced a stronger crash that could only be cured with a new dose. And so on until I almost killed myself with it.

As for modafinil, everything I have read yet about its method of action (GABA antagonism, Glutamate agonism) spells out excitotoxicity and probably long-term emotional disasters.

Just my 2c.
 
Jamshyd,

I think the way both Modafinil and Ampakines from how understand it are not classical excitatory and have the negative ramifications if used responsibly that are associated with agonist of Glutaminergic pathways

also i believe the GABA antagonism certainly is not significant in that it does not to my knowledge promot an anxiogenic response which would then certainly make the drug wholly undesirable as well as unhealthy

inherently substances that feel "clean" I would think would not be modulating these pathways in non-positive ways (??)

anyone else care to comment on that....
 
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