Hopeless Clean but miserable

[Poppydog]

I've been clean for 4+ years but im still miserable. I used for close to 15 years. Pot, stimulants, opiods, benzos, psychedelics. I dont even smoke anymore and i dont take any medications. I was never using IV or on crazy high doses, but I was a habitual daily user.
Now im grateful to be clear of some of the b.s which comes with using, but dang it seems like most of the reasons i started using in the first place aint going anywhere. Im still intermittently miserable and overwhelmed by life. Im such a downer on everything and struggle to engage with normal people who are excited about life and have hobbies and dreams and shit like that.

Im at university doing fine, and I jog 3 or 4 times a week, and i have a part-time job and enough money. But dang life is so tedious. Its the little things which are the worst, like keeping the house clean, and updating all my passwords and grocery shopping etc etc dang its just never ending pointless mindless meaningless b.s. Im so over it. Plus im old now, im 35 and going bald and its just all downhill from here.

Sometimes i feel like ive given the clean life a good go, and its just not working for me. I get pretty angry about it actually. Getting clean was hard, and it hasn't delivered any more than doing drugs did. At least with drugs you kinda know what you are getting - short term, unsustainable pleasure in exchange for long term pain.
Heck just writing that reminds me of how shit withdrawal and feeling addicted is. Drugs dont work for me either really

I was googling opiods for depression the other day. Apparently subs for depression is a thing? I wonder if low-dose semi-agonists is a sustainable way to get by in life?
Does anyone else feel me on this? I feel like druggies are some of the sanest people around.

 

[Rebelgal54]

I struggle with these same feelings daily. Addiction is a horrible cycle of finding your dealer or source and getting the money somehow to pay for your drugs... only to experience a few minutes or hours of fleeting euphoria if you’re lucky ...but often the best you’re going to get is the absence of pain... then deal with the comedown and the withdrawal if you don’t complete the cycle all over again...

BUT recovery can be shit too.... going through life on a hamster wheel.. day in day out.. A lot of the time i just think to myself is this all there is? Why aren’t I able to experience happiness like other people? I’ve gone to all sorts of therapy...support groups... NA/AA... some of it helps but not much. I think addicts have the hardest lives to live because we constantly feel everything and nothing at the same time

 

[WitchDr]

What about trying psychedelics instead of opiates?
I mean if you have to do some opiate, subs would probably be the safest an least addicting of the opiates but still addicting.
And doing them everyday pretty much guarantees dependence.
I'm just saying that opiates will get you high an then you'll get a tolerance an life goes back to being shit plus you have an addiction.
I thought low dose of hydrocodone would help me an my life became consumed with opiates within a few years but that's me.

 

[iLoveYouWithaKnife]

Heck just writing that reminds me of how shit withdrawal and feeling addicted is. Drugs dont work for me either really

At least you realized this way, instead of hopping back on the day train.

 

[bongdong]

Hello @Poppydog, congrats on being sober for this extended period of time

Does anyone else feel me on this? I feel like druggies are some of the sanest people around.

I definitely can relate to your situation, ..maybe more than i'd like to admit.

Ad druggies: Surely not always, but i have the impression that behind drug use/misuse is very often a shitload of pain and suffering and misfortune and that taking substances starts out as an atempt to solve a problem, whether one is aware of that or not. Which then frequently creates more or other problems. But dealing with all this, creates opportinities too i think. People who had more than their fair share of suffering not seldom have deep insights into human nature and how things roll in general.

From what you write, your life seems to go normal or acceptable now, you have your 'act together', and you ask yourself why you don't feel accordingly, like "everbody else"? It could be (and probably many people will tell you that when asked), but i'm not so sure if that has something to do with your history or relation to drugs. I'm not out to offend anybody, but some people are just not stupid enough to trap themself in ideology or to maintain the conditioning they received from their culture and to soothe themselfs with superfluous things. Mine wants me e.g. to be a mindless producer and consumer, but i looked though that a long time ago. Sadly, most of my peers still go after that and "seem" perfectly happy. But it's really not different than drug addiction; only their fix is the new iPhone, thier Facebook likes, breeding kids, the fat SUV or whatever; always the next thing.. not realizing that the things they actually got, didn't deliver at all and that their existantial angst and voidness is only covered up, which in turn makes it impossible to address. In that sense, you are perhaps not in bad spot at all?

I can't tell if that applies or relates to you, but i found that my ego, my mind will never really be satisfied or lasting happy, and that that is my main source of dis-ease. Nature will do its thing and my body will decay and ache only more as time goes on and i will invariably lose everything i make myself believe i have, be and own. So if it's shit now and won't get any better, why continue..? But if so, in what way? I know this doesn't sound satisfying (at first), but it's only a problem if i make one out of it. And chances are that there will never be an answer to this dilemma, not on an intellectual level. But perhaps there is a felt one, one that can be experienced and lived? Isn't that what matters as long as it doesn't corrupt ones intellectual integrity? But that seems to require a change in perspecitve and priorities on a huge scale. I can write more about that, but i don't know if you are interested and i don't want to rant or give the impression that i have figured it all out, which is clearly not the case.

Someone once wrote:

"The greatest and most important problems of life are all in a certain sense insolvable. They can never be solved, but only outgrown. Some higher interest arises; a widening of view leads to a new level of consciousness in which the insolvable problem loses its urgency. It was not solved logically in its own terms, but fades out when confronted with a new and stronger life-tendency." C. G. Jung

I hope you can draw something from this. In any case, know that you are not alone in this! I have a hard time realizing, or seeing this myself. Have a virtual hug..

Greetings

 

[Vinnie77]

I mean if you have to do some opiate, subs would probably be the safest an least addicting of the opiates but still addicting.

I always did opiates ocassionally, but when i tried subs i got hooked because i loved them and it was my most favorite opiate (never tried hardcore opiates like H, fent or Dilaudid).

 

[Poppydog]

Thanks so much for all the responses. I came out of the hole of misery yesterday arvo. No idea why. Today was much better. I woke up at 5am and couldnt get back to sleep so i went into uni and slept under my desk, then attended a lecture and mostly paid attention, worked on an assignment, then ran 13km (I only stopped because my knee started to hurt) Plus 100 pushups and 100 situps. I even socialized with the norms a tiny bit at uni. Although i kind of wanted to throttle them. So pretty productive day and i feel alright about it.

Re low dose opiates, yeah, its just not do-able to use them as a life strategy. They are just too dang beautiful and scrumptious and the side-effects too severe.

Re the hamster wheel and/or moving from iphone to facebook likes etc etc, Yes a big part of my problem is that i am dissatisfied with life because its inherently dissatisfying and that is a weird kind of raw painful bleeding blessing that I kinda dont really want and would pay to be rid of. I cant live within the 'immanent frame of reference' to steal a phrase from Charles Taylor. And i both pity and am jealous of those who are content to do so.

I should mention how i got clean. I recognized that i was up shit creek without a paddle and that i needed more help than i could find anywhere (including psychs, counselors, psychedelics, meditation, hypnosis, gurus, self-help books, etc etc) So that realization humbled the shit out of me and i started to consider accepting help from absolutely anywhere. I was open to metaphysical/spiritual/new age worldviews when i met a Christian who told me about Jesus and i thought "yeah whatever. Heard it before. Not interesting or sophisticated...." But i was willing to keep an open mind and explore everything, so i asked questions and started to read the bible, and i got a lot more than i bargained for. God showed up and i couldn't deny it. I knew I was a sinner, and that i didnt even keep my own standards let alone God's standards, so I threw myself on his mercy and he saved me. He saved me from hell (the penalty for sin), but the curse of sin remains in my life to some degree or another because he tends not to wave a magic wand and remove the consequences for your actions.

Anyways, thats a totally subjective story which doesn't really prove anything, but its what happened to me and gives me a reason to endure.
If you want proof, humble yourself and seek God yourself and he can change you.
If you want more intellectual, rational proof, look to the resurrection of the man Jesus of Nazareth. If that event is historically demonstrable, then you would be mad to ignore the implications. And it is historically demonstrable. Only an inherently anti-supernatural bias can explain away the evidence. See Josh Mcdowell - "Evidence which demands a verdict" or the classical arguments for theism from William Lane Craig and others. Remember, historical events cannot be proven via repeatable scientific methods, but rather by logical and forensic means. Category errors are rife in this field.
I didnt come here to proselytize but it would be disingenuous and unkind of me to not mention this part of my story.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hi @Poppydog. I had treatment resistant depression after getting clean from years of poly drug abuse (mainly stims but also benzos and psychadelics). I could not take SSRI’s because they made me manic so at the 2 year clean mark when I was still desperately miserable for no apparent reason, my psych sent me off for Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT) which worked wonders for me. I’ve never felt that kind of depression since. It’s not at all like the popular culture makes out and its very safe apart from some impact on your memory for a while. Might be worth a look into?

 

[Jabberwocky]

There's 2 things you can do when things bother you in life.
Deal with it
Or live with it
But you have to take responsibility for your decisions
The thing I have seen with threads like this is that no fucking internet stranger will help you.
Your current state is your fucking fault.
But you have the power to change it.
That's the magic of life.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The thing I have seen with threads like this is that no fucking internet stranger will help you.
.

We internet strangers might not be prepared to go over to OP’s house and tend to his needs while he works his shit out - but I don’t see the problem in looking for ideas on how to change up your negative view of life from people who have gone through the same shit before you did.

What’s wrong with trying to learn a shortcut from reading other people’s mistakes and successes. Struggling through life all alone abd entirely on your own resources is mighty fucking tough for most people. We are made to be social and to share both our problems and our resources.

But I also agree that hardening the fuck up has some role to play for most people too!

 

[Jabberwocky]

We internet strangers might not be prepared to go over to OP’s house and tend to his needs while he works his shit out - but I don’t see the problem in looking for ideas on how to change up your negative view of life from people who have gone through the same shit before you did.

What’s wrong with trying to learn a shortcut from reading other people’s mistakes and successes. Struggling through life all alone abd entirely on your own resources is mighty fucking tough for most people. We are made to be social and to share both our problems and our resources.

But I also agree that hardening the fuck up has some role to play for most people too!

I learned it from young age to keep your problems as your own knowledge.
Show weakness and it will be used against you in later stages of life, even if you might get temporary help.
Maybe one great things about the anonymity of forums is getting to bitch like this.
I start feeling hatred and rage if I see somebody crying or somebody starts to bitch about their problems too much about me.

 

[Vinnie77]

Do you have wife/girlfriend ?

 

[Jabberwocky]

I learned it from young age to keep your problems as your own knowledge.
Show weakness and it will be used against you in later stages of life, even if you might get temporary help.
Maybe one great things about the anonymity of forums is getting to bitch like this.
I start feeling hatred and rage if I see somebody crying or somebody starts to bitch about their problems too much about me.

Yeah. I hate whiny defeatism and get really triggered by it in some threads. But i’ve got a lot of time for people who can humbly admit their limitations or failings and seem to genuinely want advice they can act on. Helping people makes me feel good - it’s probably quite selfish that I do it to make me feel happier. At least according to Nietzsche...

 

[Vinnie77]

I learned it from young age to keep your problems as your own knowledge.
Show weakness and it will be used against you in later stages of life, even if you might get temporary help.
Maybe one great things about the anonymity of forums is getting to bitch like this.
I start feeling hatred and rage if I see somebody crying or somebody starts to bitch about their problems too much about me.

Most people don't like it and avoid crybabies, because nobody wanna spend their free time listening to same negative shit over and over again. Not even asking for help, just complaining about everything.

 

[Kara Kava]

I feel the same. I can never work in my field because of criminal charges due to drugs and I'm almost 40 starting over. It sucks. People i went to university with have families and homes and I had to sell mine and now renting an apartment. Better then nothing i guess and I have food etc.
But i don't have friends, i dropped them when I stopped drugs and my old friends don't talk to me
Sometimes I do wonder if this is any better than before

 

[bongdong]

@Poppydog
To avoid misunderstandings, i am not in favor of ideology, but i'm not here to argue cause i know that's pointless. I also know that faith "works", but what i'm wondering about it: If i were to go down this road, i would expect or rather demand that my particular gods or gurus or my closed thinking system would take care of my issues. That's the whole point, is it not? Considering that you still feel like shit, is it possible that you dealt yourself a bad hand (in a moment of crisis or diminished logical ability), kind of a lose-lose-situation? It's not like your aren't paying a price for your believe system, you know that right?

I learned it from young age to keep your problems as your own knowledge.
Show weakness and it will be used against you in later stages of life, even if you might get temporary help.

I got to learn exactly this in my youth too. And i still have this view/reflex most of the time, although i know now that it hasn't served me well! Do you still feel and behave that way? I know this position is defendable, but how do you roll with this (if so)? You find this a productive or pleasant alley to conduct your affairs? I'm just curious..

My experience is that whining seldom brings something useful for anybody. Nontheless, i do think there is a time/space to tell, and one to listen (and one to do neither). But i'm pretty sure that the ability to ask for help or advice is a major asset, and not a weakness!

 

[Flynnal]

Yeah. I hate whiny defeatism and get really triggered by it in some threads. But i’ve got a lot of time for people who can humbly admit their limitations or failings and seem to genuinely want advice they can act on. Helping people makes me feel good - it’s probably quite selfish that I do it to make me feel happier. At least according to Nietzsche...

I can be the same, but it depends on what people are upset about. If it's anything that was not their fault and could affect them forever, then I would say it is legitimate, but if it's just about general stuff like daily life stressors, then sure, it gets old and annoying pretty fast. I never cry or stress about anything unless it is truly serious or life changing.

But complaining because one used drugs and had to quit and then had to face reality, well, them's the breaks. It is what it is. Abuse drugs and you should expect consequences for doing so. There should be a Bible written about all kinds of drug abuse and the emotional and mental consequences in an elaborate yet easy to understand way, and maybe there actually is, but I know of two ex-addicts and whilst I understand their stories I cannot understand why they keep complaining when they've had a relatively easy life - money from their parents, one of them got free rent and yet still complained, and choosing to not do constructive stuff.

 

[Jabberwocky]

@Poppydog

I got to learn exactly this in my youth too. And i still have this view/reflex most of the time, although i know now that it hasn't served me well! Do you still feel and behave that way? I know this position is defendable, but how do you roll with this (if so)? You find this a productive or pleasant alley to conduct your affairs? I'm just curious..

My experience is that whining seldom brings something useful for anybody. Nontheless, i do think there is a time/space to tell, and one to listen (and one to do neither). But i'm pretty sure that the ability to ask for help or advice is a major asset, and not a weakness!

Well, for me it has worked the way it's intended.
In my relationships I really don't wish to be more open. It's enough. It depends on the person, but there's certain lines I'd never cross..
Yeah, asking advice sucks fucking anus - I hate it and asking for help is even worse.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I can be the same, but it depends on what people are upset about. If it's anything that was not their fault and could affect them forever, then I would say it is legitimate, but if it's just about general stuff like daily life stressors, then sure, it gets old and annoying pretty fast. I never cry or stress about anything unless it is truly serious or life changing.

But complaining because one used drugs and had to quit and then had to face reality, well, them's the breaks. It is what it is. Abuse drugs and you should expect consequences for doing so. There should be a Bible written about all kinds of drug abuse and the emotional and mental consequences in an elaborate yet easy to understand way, and maybe there actually is, but I know of two ex-addicts and whilst I understand their stories I cannot understand why they keep complaining when they've had a relatively easy life - money from their parents, one of them got free rent and yet still complained, and choosing to not do constructive stuff.

Yep. One cannot really complain about the consequences of using drugs. Drugs fucked up my live six ways from Sunday at different times but no one held me down and shoved them in. It was my choice - probably ever since I read Hunter S. Thompson at too young an age and thought it was cool and glamorous and definitely since I found they (temporarily) make you feel a whole lot better about shit - but never as good as just getting your act together and living life.

 

[Ds]

Hey @Poppydog
I'm sure you hear this all the time but it does get better.
I was miserable too when I got sober, and after year 2 I was still miserable. So when I was in treatment they taught us about the PAWS(Post-Acute-Withdrawal-Syndrome), and I would have thought maybe, I might start feeling better by then, but nope.
So after being worried for a bit I decided to see someone in the mental health field because no matter how much I was praying and meditating and working with others I still felt miserable.
After speaking with some professionals they told me the years, and years of drug abuse had an effect on my serotonin levels. Meaning that when people would experience happy things, it wouldn't even phase me.
So they started with medication and therapy, and I actually feel better. I still go to therapy and my shrink and I feel a huge improvement with the way I handle stress and feelings.
Not saying that it might not work for everyone but sometimes we in recovery do need some outside help.