Circumcision?
- Thread starter chrissie
- Start date
^^^ Circumcision is, by its very definiton, a form of mutilation...but semantics is neither here nor there.
The biggest problem I have with circumcision is that it is an *irreversable* cosmetic operation that removes a functioning, healthy organ from an individual who does not give consent to have his body modified in such a way.
Why can't you just wait until your child is old enough to understand the full ramifications of circumcision, and allow him to choose what he wants?
At the very least, respect your children enough to allow them to make their own decisions about their own bodies.
The biggest problem I have with circumcision is that it is an *irreversable* cosmetic operation that removes a functioning, healthy organ from an individual who does not give consent to have his body modified in such a way.
Why can't you just wait until your child is old enough to understand the full ramifications of circumcision, and allow him to choose what he wants?
At the very least, respect your children enough to allow them to make their own decisions about their own bodies.
well shit, why don't we let our kids name themselves. i mean your name stays with you for your entire life. you can change it, but that costs a lot of money.
so i think from now on anything that may affect our children later on, well, we should just let them handle it.
if you feel that you want to circumcise your son, then you should do it when they are a baby and it is a relatively minor procedure.
but who wants to do things the easy way?
so i think from now on anything that may affect our children later on, well, we should just let them handle it.
if you feel that you want to circumcise your son, then you should do it when they are a baby and it is a relatively minor procedure.
but who wants to do things the easy way?
circlecircus
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2001
- Messages
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Why can't you just wait until your child is old enough to understand the full ramifications of circumcision, and allow him to choose what he wants?
Well for one thing getting circumcised older is painful as fuck for weeks, not to mention bleeding, bruised and traumatic.
at least when done as a kid it heals faster, the person doesnt remember anything about it as they get older and its cheaper.
Circumcised people from birth only feel jipped because they are constantly told about how much better sex is with a foreskin. Better sensations etc etc. Now if i was told i was missing out on some wonder-sex because of an operation that i had when i was younger i would feel angry to. We all want better sex right?
If only they knew...
After being sexually active both before and after the procedure i underwent the difference in sensation is rather minimal and the only main difference i have found is i last longer circumcised. Even if according to fairnymph the facts are saying that it is not possible well bugger the facts, this is my first hand experience.
Some certain pro-circumcision points that i got from: CircList
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1)Circumcision lowers your son's chances of getting a urinary tract infection (UTI) in the first year of life.
2)Although a rare condition, cancer of the penis is essentially eliminated in circumcised males.
Research shows that males who are circumcised have a lower risk of getting sexually transmitted diseases (STDs).
3)Circumcision eliminates foreskin infections that occur throughout childhood.
4)Circumcision prevents phimosis, a narrow opening that makes it impossible to retract the foreskin at a later age.
5)Genital hygiene is easier after circumcision.
6)Circumcision virtually eliminates the accumulation of smegma.
****************************************
But hey, if you are happy with what you have then thats great.
Now to answer the topic:
how many of you men are circumcised/uncircumcised?
circumcised at age 17. Now age 19
why were you/were you not?
Personal choice (nothing to do with peer pressure or other psychological shite) I preferred the thought of a cleaner, more aesthetic look.
do you wish it was the other way around?
Hell No.
are you happy with ur penis's appearance?
Yes very pleased.
for the cut guys-- do you have less sensation than u think u should in bed?
Slightly. This is a good thing however, sex is still incredible and i last longer.
are there any other positives/negatives to having ur penis cut/intact?
see start of post
-------------
Enjoy.
circlecircus
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2001
- Messages
- 291
okaaaay second round.
Infant vs Adult circumcision
a. Infant.
If circumcision must be done for any reasons then 7-10 days after birth is the ideal time. At this age there is no anaesthetic risk, no separation from parents, no psychological trauma, no stitches, no memory of the event and the wounds heal in a few days without causing any discomfort. Circumcision with a 'Plastibell' is probably the best method and the baby can be bathed normally.
b. Child.
In the child circumcision may be an unpleasant experience causing psychological trouble which persists for some time afterwards. Separation from parents, the anaesthetic, having his 'tail' made sore etc. may all be upsetting. The anaesthetic agent 'Ketalar' and the 'Plastibell' circumcision device have made the operation simpler and safer in young children. Lads in the 2-6 age group are aware of the differences between boys and girls and being unable to appreciate the nature of the operation may fear that their masculinity has been taken away.
c. Adolescent and adult.
Circumcision at this age can readily be done under local or general anaesthesia without psychological harm because the patient can understand the reason for the operation. It can be done on an out-patient basis because the wound is not particularly painful and the patient remains up and about. The wound heals completely in about three weeks and sexual intercourse can be resumed in 3-4 weeks. To secure maximum benefit the surgeon should be requested to remove all the foreskin. The main problem is embarrassment in having the genitals handled, explaining absence from school or work, and having to face ribald remarks when news of the operation leaks out. The fear that an erection after the operation will tear the stitches is of course quite unwarranted.
Infant circumcision has benefits over adult circumcision. As an newborn, the procedure can be done using local anesthesia and in most cases without hospitalization. This, and the fact that the operation lasts only a few minutes, means that the medical costs involved are low. The healing process normally only takes around a week, with pain only lasting 12 to maximum 24 hours.
As an adult, the operation is more complicated and therefore also takes longer, and hospitalization is often required with a general anesthesia. As a result, the medical costs are at least a factor of 10 larger ($1500 - $2000). The healing process also takes longer - normally 3-4 weeks. During this time, sexual activity should be avoided to prevent rupturing the stitches. Add to that the embarassment factor and the general lack of funds for a young adult.
Hygene/Smegma
Smegma is the natural lubricant of the foreskin.
Natural oils are secreted by Tyson's Glands under the rim of the glans and from the inner surface of the foreskin. These are necessary to prevent the foreskin from sticking to the glans and to allow it to retract freely. The oils are produced constantly and are thus replaced very quickly after washing.
Smegma consists of surplus oil, dead skin cells, stale urine, stale semen and miscellaneous dirt which have collected under the foreskin. - Lovely. Id rather be without thankyou.
The weak phimosis (and other) alternatives to circumcision
1)A partial circumcision - removing just the constricting tip of the foreskin - is a possibility, but many who have had that done find that the remaining very loose foreskin gets in the way too much during sex. It also has no effect on the production of smegma.
2)A dorsal slit (ie cutting a slit along the top of the foreskin) is sometimes suggested. If the slit is kept short then similar problems to partial circumcision can arise. If the slit is long then the glans is permanently bared and the remnant of foreskin partially retracts leaving the top surface just as if it had been properly circumcised whilst the spare skin bunches underneath leaving a less than fully attractive result.
3)A recently developed technique known as preputioplasty may be effective in some cases of phimosis without balanitis or frenulum breve. This consists of making a short dorsal slit but then re-stitching the edges across the penis instead of along it. A small T-shaped scar remains on the tip of the foreskin and, like all scars, is less elastic than the surrounding skin but the opening in the end of the foreskin is enlarged slightly.
4)Stretching the foreskin may work where there is only very slight phimosis. However if too much stretching is done minute tears are caused and these heal to tiny scars which are even less elastic than the skin around them - thus the phimosis actually gets worse and circumcision is eventually necessary.
5)Creams and ointments can temporarily relieve the itching from balanitis, but cannot remove the underlying cause - indeed they may actually make matters worse by trapping bacteria and fungi that might otherwise have been washed or rubbed away. Only removal of the foreskin to allow permanent exposure of the infected glans to the drying effects of the air will eliminate balanitis.
Other random facts
1)there is no medical evidence that circumcision affects the mother-child bonding in any negative way. It is possible that the infant may be fussy for a day or two after the circumcision, but no long-term effects have been found;
2)there is no scientific evidence that circumcision disrupts the child´s behavioral development. A recent study has shown that infants who were circumcised without anesthesia did show a stronger response to the immunization shots performed at 4-6 months of age than those who were uncircumcised or who had received pain relief during circumcision. It should be noted however (and even the authors admit it) that the conclusions of the study [6] was based on only a small statistical sample. In should also be noted that no credible scientific study has ever shown long-term sensitivity to pain as a result of infant circumcision;
3)circumcision can in no way be described as being a barbaric practice. This statement is an insult to all parents who have made an informed decision, and with the well-being and interest of their child in mind. By the same argument, circumcision also cannot be considered to violate the human rights of the child, since parents have both the legal and moral right to act in the best interest of their child.
----------------------------------------
bring it on fairnymph I dont give in so easily..
[ 17 April 2002: Message edited by: circlecircus ]
Infant vs Adult circumcision
a. Infant.
If circumcision must be done for any reasons then 7-10 days after birth is the ideal time. At this age there is no anaesthetic risk, no separation from parents, no psychological trauma, no stitches, no memory of the event and the wounds heal in a few days without causing any discomfort. Circumcision with a 'Plastibell' is probably the best method and the baby can be bathed normally.
b. Child.
In the child circumcision may be an unpleasant experience causing psychological trouble which persists for some time afterwards. Separation from parents, the anaesthetic, having his 'tail' made sore etc. may all be upsetting. The anaesthetic agent 'Ketalar' and the 'Plastibell' circumcision device have made the operation simpler and safer in young children. Lads in the 2-6 age group are aware of the differences between boys and girls and being unable to appreciate the nature of the operation may fear that their masculinity has been taken away.
c. Adolescent and adult.
Circumcision at this age can readily be done under local or general anaesthesia without psychological harm because the patient can understand the reason for the operation. It can be done on an out-patient basis because the wound is not particularly painful and the patient remains up and about. The wound heals completely in about three weeks and sexual intercourse can be resumed in 3-4 weeks. To secure maximum benefit the surgeon should be requested to remove all the foreskin. The main problem is embarrassment in having the genitals handled, explaining absence from school or work, and having to face ribald remarks when news of the operation leaks out. The fear that an erection after the operation will tear the stitches is of course quite unwarranted.
Infant circumcision has benefits over adult circumcision. As an newborn, the procedure can be done using local anesthesia and in most cases without hospitalization. This, and the fact that the operation lasts only a few minutes, means that the medical costs involved are low. The healing process normally only takes around a week, with pain only lasting 12 to maximum 24 hours.
As an adult, the operation is more complicated and therefore also takes longer, and hospitalization is often required with a general anesthesia. As a result, the medical costs are at least a factor of 10 larger ($1500 - $2000). The healing process also takes longer - normally 3-4 weeks. During this time, sexual activity should be avoided to prevent rupturing the stitches. Add to that the embarassment factor and the general lack of funds for a young adult.
Hygene/Smegma
Smegma is the natural lubricant of the foreskin.
Natural oils are secreted by Tyson's Glands under the rim of the glans and from the inner surface of the foreskin. These are necessary to prevent the foreskin from sticking to the glans and to allow it to retract freely. The oils are produced constantly and are thus replaced very quickly after washing.
Smegma consists of surplus oil, dead skin cells, stale urine, stale semen and miscellaneous dirt which have collected under the foreskin. - Lovely. Id rather be without thankyou.
The weak phimosis (and other) alternatives to circumcision
1)A partial circumcision - removing just the constricting tip of the foreskin - is a possibility, but many who have had that done find that the remaining very loose foreskin gets in the way too much during sex. It also has no effect on the production of smegma.
2)A dorsal slit (ie cutting a slit along the top of the foreskin) is sometimes suggested. If the slit is kept short then similar problems to partial circumcision can arise. If the slit is long then the glans is permanently bared and the remnant of foreskin partially retracts leaving the top surface just as if it had been properly circumcised whilst the spare skin bunches underneath leaving a less than fully attractive result.
3)A recently developed technique known as preputioplasty may be effective in some cases of phimosis without balanitis or frenulum breve. This consists of making a short dorsal slit but then re-stitching the edges across the penis instead of along it. A small T-shaped scar remains on the tip of the foreskin and, like all scars, is less elastic than the surrounding skin but the opening in the end of the foreskin is enlarged slightly.
4)Stretching the foreskin may work where there is only very slight phimosis. However if too much stretching is done minute tears are caused and these heal to tiny scars which are even less elastic than the skin around them - thus the phimosis actually gets worse and circumcision is eventually necessary.
5)Creams and ointments can temporarily relieve the itching from balanitis, but cannot remove the underlying cause - indeed they may actually make matters worse by trapping bacteria and fungi that might otherwise have been washed or rubbed away. Only removal of the foreskin to allow permanent exposure of the infected glans to the drying effects of the air will eliminate balanitis.
Other random facts
1)there is no medical evidence that circumcision affects the mother-child bonding in any negative way. It is possible that the infant may be fussy for a day or two after the circumcision, but no long-term effects have been found;
2)there is no scientific evidence that circumcision disrupts the child´s behavioral development. A recent study has shown that infants who were circumcised without anesthesia did show a stronger response to the immunization shots performed at 4-6 months of age than those who were uncircumcised or who had received pain relief during circumcision. It should be noted however (and even the authors admit it) that the conclusions of the study [6] was based on only a small statistical sample. In should also be noted that no credible scientific study has ever shown long-term sensitivity to pain as a result of infant circumcision;
3)circumcision can in no way be described as being a barbaric practice. This statement is an insult to all parents who have made an informed decision, and with the well-being and interest of their child in mind. By the same argument, circumcision also cannot be considered to violate the human rights of the child, since parents have both the legal and moral right to act in the best interest of their child.
----------------------------------------
bring it on fairnymph I dont give in so easily..
[ 17 April 2002: Message edited by: circlecircus ]
plazma
Bluelighter
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- Jul 24, 2001
- Messages
- 4,992
I'm amazed at how many people can rehash the same goddamn arguments over and over again.
Some people are circumcised and like it, others are circumcised and don't like it. Some people are intact and like it, other people are intact and don't like it.
Unless you're a total slob who has a bath once a year and unsafe sex regularly, the difference is absolutely fuck-all!
I'm intact and given that I've not really been any other way I can't really comment on how much better it is.
Anyway it's my cock, I like it, no girls I know have complained. WHAT'S THE FUCKING FUSS ABOUT?
-plaz out-
Some people are circumcised and like it, others are circumcised and don't like it. Some people are intact and like it, other people are intact and don't like it.
Unless you're a total slob who has a bath once a year and unsafe sex regularly, the difference is absolutely fuck-all!
I'm intact and given that I've not really been any other way I can't really comment on how much better it is.
Anyway it's my cock, I like it, no girls I know have complained. WHAT'S THE FUCKING FUSS ABOUT?
-plaz out-
Old Roller
Bluelighter
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- Dec 20, 2001
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- 268
For what it's worth, I have a 12-year-old and chose not to have him circumcised because the procedure seemed like a mean thing to do to my sweet, innocent infant. He's all good with the situation, and at least two of his buddies are also intact. His dad is circumcised, but two grandfathers (having been born at home) are intact. There is a big difference generationally in this country. Those people born around and before WWII are much more likely to have been born at home, and therefore are intact. It's only in the 50s on up when women started to go to hospitals to deliver that we have a big upsurge in circumcision. Seems to me that maybe the medical community had something to do with it (generation of extra medical fees, perhaps?). Having been with both intact and circumcised men, I don't see a big difference and really have no preference. Every penis is different for lotsa reasons, this is just one more.
i liken circumcision to those little grrl infants with their ears pierced.
many men don't ever get upset about being circumsized, but why not leave that decidion up to that person?!
i'm very curious to know what it would be like to be with someone who WASN'T circumsized. i think it'd be neat. look, now you guys sound like guinea pigs and shit. :D
if i ever had a little boi, he would not be circumsized. and if i ever had a little grrl, she would not ever have anything pierced before she was able to talk. yuck.
many men don't ever get upset about being circumsized, but why not leave that decidion up to that person?!
i'm very curious to know what it would be like to be with someone who WASN'T circumsized. i think it'd be neat. look, now you guys sound like guinea pigs and shit. :D
if i ever had a little boi, he would not be circumsized. and if i ever had a little grrl, she would not ever have anything pierced before she was able to talk. yuck.
fizzygirl
Bluelighter
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- Jul 21, 2000
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This isn't to refute the whole argument...I'm actually on that side of it, but the Nuremberg code refers to experimentation on humans. It is the basis of much of what I have to go through in order to have participants for the studies that I run. It doesn't refer to surgery, as parents are left the decision for those that are under 18, and those that are over that age, but mentally incompetent have guardians that make the medical decisions.
Terracidal
Bluelighter
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- Feb 17, 2001
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I am cut and I have been since I was a little kid, and every single girl I have been with has never complained or said anything, and many people don't exactly have the option of choosing whether or not this happens, which in essence is like recieving a name like "Fuckface" and not being able to change it until you are older. I am 17 and had sex many times, and I mean if a girl ever said that she would prefer if I wasn't cut or that she doesn't like it, I would tell her fuck off then. I don't complain when a girl has wierd inverted nipples or strange shaped tits, so why complain about my dick. Its not small or anything, so what the hell is the problem. Variety is the spice of life anyway...
fairnymph
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2000
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^^^
I'm not complaining about men who are already circumcized. There is nothing that you can do about that and I don't think complaining is constructive (or meaningful). I have been with many men with circumcized penises and would never reject a man on that basis. I'm in no way trying to make your or any circumcized man feel bad about the state of their penis. I am simply trying to get people to think about this issue in depth so that hopefully people will stop circumcizing their sons. There is nothing that can be done about the past, but we CAN make the future what we want it to be.
I'm not complaining about men who are already circumcized. There is nothing that you can do about that and I don't think complaining is constructive (or meaningful). I have been with many men with circumcized penises and would never reject a man on that basis. I'm in no way trying to make your or any circumcized man feel bad about the state of their penis. I am simply trying to get people to think about this issue in depth so that hopefully people will stop circumcizing their sons. There is nothing that can be done about the past, but we CAN make the future what we want it to be.