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Cigarettes minus the damage - E-cigs & harmala alkaloids

DJ_Cosmo

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
25
I've had an idea for some time that I've yet to try. I was wondering if anyone had tried it or had any thoughts on the matter.

Now, it is my theoretical understanding that, the primary reason electronic cigarettes do not provide the effect of smoked tobacco is because e-cigs only vapourise nicotine, whereas tobacco smoke contains MAOIs that synergise with nicotine. I think it's a great shame that e-cigs haven't taken off but my intuition tells me that this is the real reason, no matter what people say. If we have the technology, why should people destroy their bodies when they don't have to. Vapourised nicotine + harmala alkaloids would be far, far less harmful than smoking plant matter, and there is no scientific reason that I know of to say it wouldn't work just as effectively in giving a decent, satisfying hit.

The MAOIs I am talking about are beta-carbolines, specifically harman and harmaline I think. At this point I don't believe that anyone knows the approximate dose of alkaloids that is present in the average puff, nor the particular ratio of different alkaloids (possibly not even what they all actually are). I wouldn't be too surprised if there were other, chemically distinct components with some small activity, but I haven't seen any of these discussed anywhere.

(As an aside, formaldehyde is supposedly present in at least some cigarettes, I wouldn't doubt that it could have some psychoactive properties, but that chemical is really not one you want to be putting in your body. OTOH people plenty of people drink lots of alcohol which is metabolised to acetaldehyde, a related compound)

My idea was to try putting these alkaloids in the same solution as the nicotine at steadily increasing doses, making notes as you go along. I also considered trying out tetrahydroharmine for a novel, possibly quite pleasant effect. By altering the ratio of these four different constituents you could produce unique smokes with different specific effects. I would imagine a THH heavy mix would give a warmer, relaxed hit for an evening at home alone or with friends, whereas a harmine or nicotine dominant mix would probably be a bit closer to a stimulant effect. That said I've never even tried this compounds so it's just conjecture.

I was going to try it out and tell you guys about it, but I never got around to it but I think it's so important that it should be tried.

I don't know if it would be overstepping the mark by suggesting this, but would anyone be willing to try this out and telling us how it goes? I think this could be an extremely fruitful avenue of research and relatively simple to explore.
 
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I can vouch as also being one of those people, "relapsed" due to a shortage of e-liquid, but after I re-up I have no doubt I'll quit and then slowly lower the nicotine content in the fluid to quit altogether.

My personal opinion is it just takes finding the right combination. No mass marketed e-cig will give you the results you need to quit, what you're going for is an experience MORE pleasurable/satisfying than cigs.

That means the e-cig model, the atomizer/cartomizer model and design, the fluid flavor, and fluid nicotine content. Then factor in what you like, stick batteries that feel more like cigs but require constant recharging, blunt sized batteries that last all day but may look goofy to others.

You must be willing to experiment and find what works for you, drop some cash, you WILL make it back in the end even if you fuck up a few times.

And to hell with blu-cig, if you got turned off by trying one of those first or a disposable, then it's your own fault, they're not anything like a high quality e-cig. And if you liked it, then damn, you'd fricken LOVE any other model/make you could find online, and it will be cheaper as well.

/rant
 
I'm going to try this over in Other Drugs.

Homeless --> Other Drugs
 
I agree with the OP. One reason why nicotine replacements don't always work is because they only contain the nicotine and not the MAOI or anything else that is found in cigarettes aside from nicotine. There have actually been some studies that support this.

I disagree that anyone gets "the same effect" from e-cigs as real ("analogue") tobacco cigarettes. It's not the same. BUT many many people have been able to successfully switch to an e-cig/personal vaporizer (PV), you just have to find the right one and know that it takes a little while to adjust, gradually lowering your cigarette intake and raising your e-cig/PV use. E-cigs/PVs certainly work a LOT better than nicotine gum etc. You can trick your brain into thinking you are smoking and it can be a fun enjoyable experience. It is definitely doable and the reasons e-cigs have "not taken off" in the mainstream is a) because the tobacco companies and nicotine replacement companies see them as a threat, and they are very powerful; and b) because there are some crappy e-cigs out there so people try a shitty one and assume all are going to be like that.

As for the idea of adding harmala alkaloids to e-liquid, that is an interesting one but I think it would take some research to know how to go about doing it and whether or not it was even possible. And who knows what an appropriate/safe dose would be.
 
Thankyou, Swimmingdancer. Yes, I can see that some people clearly get something worthwhile out of e-cigs. Maybe, as nik12937 says I would eventually find an e-cig that was right for me, but as far as I can tell, this won't happen for everyone. From my point of view, the model and the vapour flavour don't make a great enough difference to please me, because the psychoactive effect is limited to simply nicotine. I should probably give it another try. I don't have buckets of money to spend pursuing it but it would be worthwhile, I suppose. I certainly agree that for some people it is as good as.

One place to start would be to find the boiling points of the alkaloids. If they are significantly higher or lower than nicotine then there might be some issues with using the simple method I outlined. Personally I'd be inclined to simply go head first but titrate the dose of alkaloids upwards very slowly.

Sometimes I wonder how long we can wait for mainstream institutions to attempt these sorts of things. When you consider that you could be smoking for years from now, I think it's a good idea to look ahead and think, is this really necessary? And then act accordingly. That said, like Captain Heroin said, the best thing to do would be to stop smoking altogether. Only, I don't know how or when that is going to happen.
 
One place to start would be to find the boiling points of the alkaloids. If they are significantly higher or lower than nicotine then there might be some issues with using the simple method I outlined.

I'm not too sure about that. E-cigs also vaporize the glycerol / propylene glycol in the liquid, both of which have much higher boiling points than nicotine. I don't know how to go about finding decomposition temps of organic molecules in air, so I'd just use trail and error on this.
 
This is an old post but since no one provided the answer, try WTA e-juice. It contains the Whole Tobacco Alkaloids that are missing in nicotine-only e-juice. There are only 3 vendors that I've been able to find that carry WTA e-juice:

Aroma Ejuice (www.aromaejuice.com)
WholeCig (www.wholecig.com)
Mothers Milk WTA (www.mothersmilkwta.com)

Aroma Ejuice has the largest selection by far, WholeCig carries only Vegetable Glycerin e-juice (no Propylene Glycol).
Mothers Milk is the only vendor that offers quantity discount.

Enjoy!
Lazarus - 162 days tobacco-free, thanks to WTA e-juice
 
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