Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc: Religion

[rickolasnice]

Demean sarcastically? It was a joke.

And I don't believe he died for me. If he existed, how could he have died for me? I wasn't even born.

So he is in me, yet I'm going to hell?

 

[rickolasnice]

The only reason I see that Jesus gave as "more reason to live for" is to not be tortured.. And I think everyone already knows it's better to live than be tortured to death..

What's the reason you're talking about?

 

[rickolasnice]

^ That's not what Jesus said about his crucifixion?

And I know the human race is fucking itself up? But one of the biggest cancer causing things known to man is, in fact, natural.. Tobacco.

 

[rickolasnice]

Couldn't point me in the direction of those verses, could ya?

 

[rickolasnice]

I don't see what Judas killing himself has anything to do with our current conversation? The guy felt bad he got his mate condemned to death.. yeah..

And I don't see anything about: (or again, what it has to do with anything?)

Then, as Christ was on the cross, he called out the name of the god of those who did crucify him, causing them to come and laugh, point and heckle hearing a sign of his perceived allegiance to their perception of god, causing their physical death by drawing them further into the underworld.

And the reason for people smoking is the way it reacts with the brain. It sensitizes reward pathways which is very addictive. It's got nothing to do with spirituality.

 

[rickolasnice]

Yeah OK so people are the cause of peoples suffering.. What about viruses? Harmful bacteria? Babies born with disabilities? Floods? Hurricanes? Tsunamis? Aids? Cancer?

Addiction: Drug feels good. They do it again. They become addicted. There are PLENTY of religious people that are also / have been / will be addicts.. Your logic makes no sense.

 

[rickolasnice]

And there are many health problems, diseases and viruses that we haven't.. or are we going to ignore them?

We've been digging up ancient viruses now?

Again.. What about the influenza virus? What about HIV? What about measels? Meningitis? MOST viruses are not caused by humans.. They have been evolving alongside us since the dawn of time.

 

[Tromps]

What if Your blessings come through raindrops
What if Your healing comes through tears
What if Trials of this life are Your mercies in disguise?

What if my greatest disappointments,
Or the aching of this life,
Is the revealing of a greater thirst this world can't satisfy.
What if trials of this life,
The rain, the storms, the hardest nights
Are your mercies in disguise?

You should take bad things happening around you as a sign to appreciate the good that You have. For example when I'm really sick, and then when I feel better, I appreciate feeling healthy again more. Sometimes it takes going through hell to make us better people. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Suffering in this life is our mercy in disguise and it's purpose is for purification. It is the burden we must carry as a debt for our 'withdrawal' of power/freewill from God; to reunite us in the end.

When powerful storms destroy our cities and lives, we should look at it as an opportunity to see how we are affecting the planet, people, and how well prepared we are to be protected from disasters. As panic in paradise said, most health problems and cancers are man made caused by ourselves, think of all the chemicals we are digging up and putting into our bodies / atmosphere. STDs you ask? The result of our own sinful behavior due to our own inappropriate sexual behavior.

We are made to grow, build, improve, advance and understand this creation. Mistakes, unintended consequences, bad things, and evil are bound to happen if there is to be a greater ending; for us to learn from. Everything can't be perfect, if everything good were handed to us on a gold plate, we wouldn't truly appreciate it, know it, or be happy for ourselves.

Can you imagine a place where we know so much we can cure any disease, shelter ourselves from any disaster, settle any dispute peacefully, protect any innocence from violence? It's not going to happen on it's own. Bad things are going to have to happen for us to learn and change. In the end, all the hardships & how we react to struggles in this life will determine our fate.

I can't believe what she said
I can't believe what he did
Oh, don't they know it's wrong, yeah?
Don't they know it's wrong?
Maybe there's something I missed
But how could they treat me like this?
It's wearing out my heart
The way they disregard

This is love, this is hate...
We all have a choice to make

Oh, Father won't You forgive them?
They don't know what they've been doin'
Oh, Father, give me grace to forgive them
'Cause I feel like the one losin'

I wonder what life would be like if we had Jesus live through you and me -

 

[rickolasnice]

So God destroys peoples lives (literally.. sometimes even taking peoples lives) so we (or the ones that survive) will appreciate what we HAVE got? lol..

STDs were not the only thing i mentioned.. but having sex (and reproducing) is an evolutionary trait that we have.. it's the only reason people are alive today.. Marriages were not around for the vast majority of humans existence.. Was everyone before a "sinner"?

Yes, a lot of things that give us cancer have been man made.. but there are just as many that wasn't (like i said.. tobacco).. red meat has also been linked to cancer.. The sun, also gives us cancer.. I'm not going to bother looking up what other "natural" things cause cancer.. but I'm willing to bet there are a fair few and neither one of you know just how many cancer cases have been caused by natural vs man made.

So, now you are saying, that God throws out these horrible things so that we can learn from them? For one - What about the people it kills? Many many of these people were probably loving do gooders, many of them were probably even Christian as well. Same goes for the people related to the dead.. Christian do gooders a plenty. How are people supposed to learn a lesson without being told why they are being punished? I'm pretty sure you have just thrown out a possible reason for Gods horrible ways without knowing anything about it.. It's just you doing mental gymnastics to make it all fit to YOUR beliefs.

Bad things happen because that is life. Accidents happen, people become sick or injured, some people die, families and friends are affected, sometimes even the environment is affected (volcanoes flood the atmosphere with A LOT of (i think) CO2.. You can't say that is god punishing people so that they learn.. It affects everything oxygen breathing animal.. And so on and so on..

What would life be like if Jesus lived through you and me? I'm pretty sure someone posted an example of Jesus being a complete wanker.. Calling that woman a bitch (or dog, in the new version) who is not worthy of his help. Sounds pretty unloving of all man kind to me. And again - Jesus' story is just a mish mash of stories that someone decided to put together into a book.. Have any of you read any of the scriptures that were never put in the bible / were taken out of the bible??



PS.. May I ask why you don't believe in Allah or Vishnu or Adonis?

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

^ & ^^ "We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses." - Abraham Lincoln

Calling that woman a bitch (or dog, in the new version) who is not worthy of his help.

But he did help her, he was testing her faith (see Matthew 15:21-28). Really that healing (and the one with the Centurion) were prime examples in the old-school (no longer popular/accepted) argument that G-d has turned his back on the Jews for the more worthy Gentiles.

 

[rickolasnice]

-_- So God changed his opinion / fan base?

What about the rest of my post?

 

[Tromps]

So God destroys peoples lives (literally.. sometimes even taking peoples lives) so we (or the ones that survive) will appreciate what we HAVE got? lol..

You misunderstand me, sorry for that. God created eternal souls that cannot be destroyed. God doesn't kill people's lives, people kill people's lives, either directly or indirectly through our own problems we have caused. When WE cause problems that become disasters, WE should learn from it and appreciate what is good in our lives, don't take life for granted.

STDs were not the only thing i mentioned.. but having sex (and reproducing) is an evolutionary trait that we have.. it's the only reason people are alive today.. Marriages were not around for the vast majority of humans existence.. Was everyone before a "sinner"?

Again, mortal sin is only committing acts you know are 'wrong'. During the dawn of civilization you are speaking of where 'traditional marriages' was not around they probably had a very different moral code of right vs wrong, and how they choose to react those choices is how their soul will be judged. Having sex felt great and it brought forth children they saw it as good, then no they would not be grave sinners. That has been explained to you already that sinful behavior is only doing wrong what you know is wrong. As we evolve and as new 'advancements/technologies' emerge into the world, the ethics of what is right vs wrong will evolve as well and the best we are expected to do is keep a good conscience. We will always be presented with new challenges, but it is up to us to improve those ethics.

Yes, a lot of things that give us cancer have been man made.. but there are just as many that wasn't (like i said.. tobacco).. red meat has also been linked to cancer.. The sun, also gives us cancer.. I'm not going to bother looking up what other "natural" things cause cancer.. but I'm willing to bet there are a fair few and neither one of you know just how many cancer cases have been caused by natural vs man made.

You said sex and reproducing are the only reason people are alive today, So I will say again the sun is the only reason people are alive today but you still insist on trying to demonize the sun of all things (lol). Too much exposure to the sun can cause cancer yes, too much exposure to anything can cause cancer, moderation is key and that applies to all aspects of life. Without it we would not have external life, and we have already been over why external life is not perfect because that is what we chose when we wanted our own choices.

So, now you are saying, that God throws out these horrible things so that we can learn from them? For one - What about the people it kills? Many many of these people were probably loving do gooders, many of them were probably even Christian as well. Same goes for the people related to the dead.. Christian do gooders a plenty. How are people supposed to learn a lesson without being told why they are being punished? I'm pretty sure you have just thrown out a possible reason for Gods horrible ways without knowing anything about it.. It's just you doing mental gymnastics to make it all fit to YOUR beliefs.

You completely misunderstand me. When I said "When powerful storms destroy our cities and lives, WE should look at it as an opportunity to see how WE are affecting the planet" I affirm I meant WE are the ones affecting the world and WE are the one causing our problems. Climate change? How well prepared and protected from disasters, WE should learn from. How much WE are destroying the planet, digging it up, for our OWN desires, comforts, and luxuries. Those are all factors WE have power over. What I was saying is when bad things happen from all of this WE have caused, WE should take a look at what WE are doing that is affecting the planet, directly or indirectly it all connects. Sorry for those all those caps on we but I think that's one piece of common ground we can agree on is it that's us human beings that cause our own problems, if you were misunderstanding. I DON'T believe God kills innocent people - God is there to extend his healing hand for OUR mistakes as a creation - He doesn't dictate anything - He is there to bring comfort, hope, and healing for the sick and those in grief.

And why do you worry so much about the people who have already lost their lives, especially the good people who have died in disasters as you pointed out? Surely they are in Heaven now, blessed are they, I'm sure they would much rather be there, then here, I know I would. And let me just clarify again those who have lost their lives due to misfortune accidents of others or nature, (un)intentional consequences, either directly or indirectly, they have carried their cross of suffering and blessed are they in the Kingdom of Heaven. Again, we as living beings should be worried about what we are doing and outputting in the world.

Bad things happen because that is life. Accidents happen, people become sick or injured, some people die, families and friends are affected, sometimes even the environment is affected (volcanoes flood the atmosphere with A LOT of (i think) CO2.. You can't say that is god punishing people so that they learn.. It affects everything oxygen breathing animal.. And so on and so on..

I agree with you again bad things happen because that is life - we make mistakes and it is NOT God punishing us, but WE are meant to learn from OUR mistakes. We affect everything yes. As you pointed out, sometimes people (family or friends) are affected by bad things, even the most horrible things, but when we persevere through the difficulties our relationships become closer and stronger. Just as if we have faith and persevere through the difficulties and struggles in this life our relationship with God will be stronger in the end, in eternal paradise we will be no closer to God. I trust in God's perfect plan to reunite us - I trust everything happens for a reason - I trust in the promises of eternal life Jesus proclaimed, and to be honest nothing can take that away.

What would life be like if Jesus lived through you and me? I'm pretty sure someone posted an example of Jesus being a complete wanker.. Calling that woman a bitch (or dog, in the new version) who is not worthy of his help. Sounds pretty unloving of all man kind to me. And again - Jesus' story is just a mish mash of stories that someone decided to put together into a book.. Have any of you read any of the scriptures that were never put in the bible / were taken out of the bible??

Not even going to respond because it is disrespectful and offensive. You clearly misunderstand and misinterpret passages in scripture without fully looking into them.

It's just you doing mental gymnastics to make it all fit to YOUR beliefs.

What makes you not doing such a thing? Sounds like you are to me... we can agree to disagree on that. At least we found common ground and agree that is it humans that cause problems for ourselves and other humans.

Starting to sound like a broken record... I might back out of this thread for a while.

Whatever you believe, show love, peace, kindness, common decency, and understanding for your fellow people, no matter how different they are from you. God Bless.

-Sidenote - I'm just curious , although is it appropriate for me to ask for your age, gender, and where you live rickolasnice? I was going to say "asl?" but I'm pretty sure that's a dead term

 

[Tromps]

I was asked today - why would a good God allow evil to exist? Well, for a God of loving forgiveness to exist, It would not destroy the souls or spirits of evil. Compassion and mercy. No soul is predestined to any fate. God doesn't destroy any soul because that would make him evil - they are eternal spirits.

I can feel the grace and serenity that flows through this life force and spirit - God's spirit has a presence upon me that is unavoidable and the euphoria - enlightenment in God's grace is what it's core feels as the driving force in my life, would I be wrong to ignore that?

 

[rickolasnice]

You misunderstand me, sorry for that. God created eternal souls that cannot be destroyed. God doesn't kill people's lives, people kill people's lives, either directly or indirectly through our own problems we have caused. When WE cause problems that become disasters, WE should learn from it and appreciate what is good in our lives, don't take life for granted.

What about the things I keep mentioning? Natural disasters? Babies born with disabilities? Etc..

Again, mortal sin is only committing acts you know are 'wrong'. During the dawn of civilization you are speaking of where 'traditional marriages' was not around they probably had a very different moral code of right vs wrong, and how they choose to react those choices is how their soul will be judged. Having sex felt great and it brought forth children they saw it as good, then no they would not be grave sinners. That has been explained to you already that sinful behavior is only doing wrong what you know is wrong. As we evolve and as new 'advancements/technologies' emerge into the world, the ethics of what is right vs wrong will evolve as well and the best we are expected to do is keep a good conscience. We will always be presented with new challenges, but it is up to us to improve those ethics.

OK.. but I don't know that sex before marriage is wrong.. I don't consider any of my behavioural traits to be wrong.. So I guess I'm free of sin

You said sex and reproducing are the only reason people are alive today, So I will say again the sun is the only reason people are alive today but you still insist on trying to demonize the sun of all things (lol). Too much exposure to the sun can cause cancer yes, too much exposure to anything can cause cancer, moderation is key and that applies to all aspects of life. Without it we would not have external life, and we have already been over why external life is not perfect because that is what we chose when we wanted our own choices.

I am in no way "demonizing" the sun.. I am simply pointing out something that humans have not caused, that still causes bad things to humans. How do we know if we've had enough sun? It's different for everyone.. Some people are susceptible to skin cancer and some aren't. I don't think anyone chooses to spend too long (seeing as it's pretty subjective) in the sun. Nobody tries to get skin cancer from sun exposure.

You completely misunderstand me. When I said "When powerful storms destroy our cities and lives, WE should look at it as an opportunity to see how WE are affecting the planet" I affirm I meant WE are the ones affecting the world and WE are the one causing our problems. Climate change? How well prepared and protected from disasters, WE should learn from. How much WE are destroying the planet, digging it up, for our OWN desires, comforts, and luxuries. Those are all factors WE have power over. What I was saying is when bad things happen from all of this WE have caused, WE should take a look at what WE are doing that is affecting the planet, directly or indirectly it all connects. Sorry for those all those caps on we but I think that's one piece of common ground we can agree on is it that's us human beings that cause our own problems, if you were misunderstanding. I DON'T believe God kills innocent people - God is there to extend his healing hand for OUR mistakes as a creation - He doesn't dictate anything - He is there to bring comfort, hope, and healing for the sick and those in grief.

So all natural disasters a man made? Volcanoes, man made? Forest fires, man made (i know some are, but most aren't) Hurricanes, tsunamis, etc.. Some things you could suggest that humans had some kind of role in the cause / worsening / more frequent natural disasters.. but that's guess work.. and those things were happening all over the planet before humans started interfering.

And why do you worry so much about the people who have already lost their lives, especially the good people who have died in disasters as you pointed out? Surely they are in Heaven now, blessed are they, I'm sure they would much rather be there, then here, I know I would. And let me just clarify again those who have lost their lives due to misfortune accidents of others or nature, (un)intentional consequences, either directly or indirectly, they have carried their cross of suffering and blessed are they in the Kingdom of Heaven. Again, we as living beings should be worried about what we are doing and outputting in the world.

What about the decent muslim boy or the nice athiest? What of the gay man that dedicated his life to helping children in need?

I agree with you again bad things happen because that is life - we make mistakes and it is NOT God punishing us, but WE are meant to learn from OUR mistakes. We affect everything yes. As you pointed out, sometimes people (family or friends) are affected by bad things, even the most horrible things, but when we persevere through the difficulties our relationships become closer and stronger. Just as if we have faith and persevere through the difficulties and struggles in this life our relationship with God will be stronger in the end, in eternal paradise we will be no closer to God. I trust in God's perfect plan to reunite us - I trust everything happens for a reason - I trust in the promises of eternal life Jesus proclaimed, and to be honest nothing can take that away.

Doesn't the bible say that ALL natural disasters are caused by god? To be honest with you.. I kinda wish I DID believe in an afterlife.. but as far as I can see.. there is NO evidence for it.. There is quite a big pile stacked against it.

Well.. Have you read the scriptures that didn't make it into the published book?

What makes you not doing such a thing? Sounds like you are to me... we can agree to disagree on that. At least we found common ground and agree that is it humans that cause problems for ourselves and other humans.

I could be. But I trust I can look at things objectively. Like I said.. It would be lovely living life believing we are going to live happily and eternally in the clouds.. But I can't believe in it. There is NO reason to believe in it besides WANTING to.

Whatever you believe, show love, peace, kindness, common decency, and understanding for your fellow people, no matter how different they are from you. God Bless.

I do.. unless they lose my respect (rapist, paedophiles, things like that)..

-Sidenote - I'm just curious , although is it appropriate for me to ask for your age, gender, and where you live rickolasnice? I was going to say "asl?" but I'm pretty sure that's a dead term

Guess first

 

[rickolasnice]

^ You say whaaa?

I swear you're not making any sense..

What actions?

What do you mean by "you have encouraged some of your arguments pertaining to our forth&back" ?

 

[casualuser]

I was asked today - why would a good God allow evil to exist? Well, for a God of loving forgiveness to exist, It would not destroy the souls or spirits of evil. Compassion and mercy.

But he must have created "the souls or spirits of evil" for him to be deemed the opposite(good) and allow him to be compassionate and merciful to them. So god allows evil to exist so we may become good but first he created evil so he could be good?

No soul is predestined to any fate.

Mistakes, unintended consequences, bad things, and evil are bound to happen if there is to be a greater ending; for us to learn from.

Those two statements seem contradict one another, if evil is bound to happen how then are there not souls predestined for evil?

God doesn't destroy any soul because that would make him evil - they are eternal spirits.

So destroying a soul is evil, but condemning them to eternal suffering is not?

I can feel the grace and serenity that flows through this life force and spirit - God's spirit has a presence upon me that is unavoidable and the euphoria - enlightenment in God's grace is what it's core feels as the driving force in my life, would I be wrong to ignore that?

I see no error in acknowledging such feelings(or any feelings for that matter). Rather I see error in attributing those feelings to the existence of a god, when it is just as(or arguably more) likely that those feelings merely resulted from your belief in said god, independent of his possible existence. Belief can be a very powerful thing; I have no doubt that those who blow themselves up believing their god awaits them in paradise with 72 virgins have equally(or perhaps stronger) feelings about their beliefs as you have about yours, but does that mean they are now kickin' it in paradise enjoying those virgins? I would think not! (Just to be clear, in no way am I suggesting that you or your beliefs are similar to that of Islamic extremism and suicide bombers, I am only trying to convey the power that belief alone can have on the mind)

Because we have for millenia made moral, aesthetic, religious demands on the world, looked upon it with blind desire, passion or fear, and abandoned ourselves to the bad habits of illogical thinking, this world has gradually become so marvelously variegated, frightful, meaningful, soulful, it has acquired color - but we have been the colorists: it is the human intellect that has made appearances appear and transported its erroneous basic conceptions into things.

 

[rickolasnice]

What worries?

I don't believe in marriage -_-

 

[Ninae]

I think there's just a lot of misunderstanding around this. The idea that a good god could allow evil to flourish is one of the greatest mysteries of life and just can't be simplified in that sense.

I feel the best explanation is probably that God extends his hand to us, but it's up to us to reach out for it, and he doesn't actually take it for us. Make of that metaphor what you will, but if that was the case this world would obviously be an ideal paradise without any troubles.

Either way, I really can't believe any religion is 100% truth and think it has really been used more as a political tool than for our spiritual enlightenment.

And speaking of crazy religious notions, the Muslim guy I've been seeing (while I don't have a problem with Muslims per se any more than I have with Christians), who is otherwise sensible and intelligent, actually believes there are 72 virgins waiting for him in heaven!

Talk about religious ideas that make no sense...I try to explain heaven is not a physical place and therefore there can be no virgins, but no luck.

 

[Ninae]

Oh yeah, I think the reason is also that God wants us to become self-sufficient, or more like gods in our own right. And not like helpless victims who have to ask for help to be rescued out of any trouble or get what we want. I think it's good chance that's the whole point, as hard as the process can be.

But when you think of it what would you rather be?

 

[Tromps]

OK.. but I don't know that sex before marriage is wrong.. I don't consider any of my behavioural traits to be wrong.. So I guess I'm free of sin

but, by this statement, you have encouraged some of your arguments pertaining to our forth&back. many diseases and situational psychological disturbances are caused by those actions -- even drug abuse after the fact from a decreased level of self-esteem or trauma encountered by practicing such behaviors.

I agree with panic in paradise. Furthermore I want to add, although you may not consider your behaviors wrong, the actions themselves may still be detrimental to yourself, others, or the community. For example, say a 6 year old were stumble upon a gun, he may have seen guns glorified in the media and didn't think guns were bad to use on people, not knowing it was wrong to kill, so he shoots and kills another little kid (its happened before). Now it would be hard to consider him a grave sinner, since he didn't know what he was really doing, but the action/behavior still has a negative impact on society. Even though you may be doing something you do not believe is wrong, the actions and behaviors may still have negative consequences for yourself or others.

But he must have created "the souls or spirits of evil" for him to be deemed the opposite(good) and allow him to be compassionate and merciful to them. So god allows evil to exist so we may become good but first he created evil so he could be good?

Those two statements seem contradict one another, if evil is bound to happen how then are there not souls predestined for evil?

So destroying a soul is evil, but condemning them to eternal suffering is not?

Lets back up, before the universe even existed and we label God "good". Let's just say God Is. Let's not even say "good" or "evil" exist yet.

First, God created angels and spirits with free will and independent powers (I would see that as a good, selfless act. He is creating and giving something that is his to someone else)with trust and faith in sharing his own powers. Now some of those angels with their own power of free will turn against their creator, God, for their own selfish desires and that division from God is what I would call is where 'evil' is derived from. God isn't going to stop or annihilate them, since he has already created them with a free will and eternal soul out of love. The powers of Satan and evil angels are real, they chose their destiny, not God. But With faith and trust, in return, back to God; we are able to wield his shield and no power in hell can stand up to the Lord. It may sound like some souls are predestined for evil since evil exists, but every soul has that choice, and it is our own desires and powers of free will that have caused evil.

Well, since God has given us immense power of our own free will, people are 'free' to be evil if they so choose. It's a hard concept to explain and it raises the question then why do we have good/evil and why doesn't God just have us all in Heaven and make everything good? Well, God doesn't want us to be robots programmed by His Will, or like dogs on a chain. God want's us to learn and come to understand Him for ourselves. That is what makes God Good, that He has given us Everything for us to learn, understand, and be like Him for ourselves someday, it will make us better beings in the end. Instead of forcing every soul to follow his will. Would you want to be a programmed robot? Or a dog on a chain? If someone does not believe in free will, then explain to me in depth how you are typing the keys on your keyboard.

Now we can distinguish between good and evil. God is Good for giving us enormous gifts - God is trusting US and God is having faith IN US that we will use these gifts responsibly for the good of others, to procreate, glorify, and expand His Kingdom. We are the ones who don't always trust in him, or don't have faith in him at times. When we with our power of free will do thing's that hurt others, destroy life, diminish relationships with God, that what I would define as the influence of evil spirits.

So right, God doesn't destroy evil souls, not even living ones, since God is love and compassion, doesn't intrude on our free will, and it would be unforgiving and unmerciful; it would be determining our fate for us. He want's us to chose it for ourselves, even if he already knows our fate. God doesn't condemn anyone to hell, we make our own choices/decisions and in the end we determine our fate.

@rickolasnice, I never said I only believe Christians are in Heaven, if I did quote me on it, but I didn't. I have gay friends/family, a Muslim friend who is a good and honest person. From my beliefs Heaven is a place of pure love, bliss, and peace, I believe trillions of different types of people of all colors and backgrounds are in Heaven. But you cannot bring selfishness or greed into Heaven, you cannot bring hate or unforgiveness into Heaven. You cannot carry any of those things into Heaven which contradicts that. God is the Perfect Judge. God knows what's in your heart. When you (not you specifically, anyone, even I) stand before Him on judgement day, it won't be God who condemns you to hell, but you will have condemned yourself to hell through your own actions.