Chloral Hydrate Interactions

[Snowy]

Hi!

I am interested in interactions of chloral hydrate (C) with ethanol (E) and stimulants (S).

With alcohol there is a synergism between C and E:
E promotes the C metabolism to trichloroethanol (TCE), which is active in opposite to trichloroacetic acid - to which a considerable part is usually metabolised to.
TCE inhibits the oxidation of E.

But what is a practical dose and ratio of C and E?
Has anyone experience with it? (... Mickey Finn)

In theory a dagerous interaction of C and S should exist (that's at least what i think), since C make some heart muscles more sensitive for catecholamines,
thus leading to arrhythmia or more. I was referring to releasing agents, by which only some S are meant.
Does someone know more about this?

Thanks in advance, Snowy

 

[sekio]

Chloral & its derivatives would be expected to sensitize the heart similar to other chloroalkanes. I don't know if "sudden sniffer's death" is a thing with chloral though, like it is with chloro/fluoroethanes.

What I do know is chloral produces chloroform, trichloroacetate, phosgene, etc, in addition to being a reactive species itself. This tends to make chloral hangovers rather mean, compared to ethanol.
Mixing ethanol in would probably have a synergistic effect because it will slow the metabolism of both compounds. But do recall that both ethanol and chloral are GABAergic sedatives so you run the risk of pulling a Jimi Hendrix (pass out and aspirate vomit) whenever you mix the two.

I don't think it's possible to come up with a "safe dose" of chloral plus ethanol. Mickey Finns weren't made for the pleasure of the drinker. But what I can tell you is the dose of one compound should be stupendoucsly low, and you should titrate carefully.

Personally, I would treat chloral as a novelty - do it once or twice, on its own, and then leave it be. It's too much toxicity risk for a crappy drunken high. Other comparable drugs: ether, chloroform.

 

[Hammilton]

I don't doubt you about the heart sensitization, but what are you basing that on? Structural similarity or is there research I haven't seen?

Well, maybe I do doubt it. propane and butane also sensitize, but not ethanol, propanol or butanol.

 

[Deleted member 170540]

Here's an article from the 70s that claims that chloral induces cardiac arrhythmias by sensitizing the heart to cathecholamines, much like chlorofluorocarbons and other inhalants do:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1631766/pdf/brmedj00485-0026a.pdf

Here's a recent paper that describes arrhythmias caused by chloral on rhesus monkeys:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21318465

 

[HCandKROD]

I was prescribed Chloral Hydrate back in the 80's. I was taking it for sleep. It is horrible on the gastrointestinal system. I can't imagine drinking on it. I would imagine a terrible hangover.

 

[Sturnam]

From personal experience - very low. Chloral on its own is easy to overdo and wind up pissing yourself in your bed with no memory.

For combinations with alcohol, I started with maybe 200 mg mixed into one beer. Never exceeded ~500 mg chloral and 3 beers, within a 2-3 hour time span. I felt at though it enhanced to myorelaxant effects of alcohol. Definitely not something to do if you want to get 'drunk', as the above mentioned (pissing your bed with no memory) becomes a lot easier.

 

[Snowy]

Answers and Questions...

@sekio:
It was believed to be metabolised into chloroform but it is not, TCE is the active metabolite.
I read somewhere that some ethnic group in asia (not sure...?) used it to get a greater "high" with ethanol andalso because alcohol was more expensive than the mix.

@Hammilton:
polymath came up with the references, but other similar sedative organochlorides have these side effects and sensitize the heart (e.g. chloroethanol, trichloroethylene, chloroform(?) if i remember correctly).

@polymath:
Thanks for comming up with the references!

@HCandKROD:
This side effect can be prevented (at least in (my) theory) or at least reduced, if the chloral hydrate is in solution (the more diluted the better) when it's taken.

@Sturnam:
Interesting! Can you tell more about these experiences?

@All:
Thanks!
I am interested to use it for recreational purposes, although i know of it's rather limited potential.
I don't want to drug and rob people.
Is only the combination with releasing agents dangerous as S? Are RIs OK (as S)?
Are there any derivatives (structural) of chloral hydrate, which are well documented?
Prodrugs like petrichloral and amfechloral seem interesting but very poorly documented/tested.
Chlorbutol (chlorobutanol) is a structural derivative, but seems to have no therapeutic/recreational value because of it's problematic pharmacokinetics (...it has actual chloroform as active metabolite).
What do you think of "Chloropentanol"?

Most likely even more useless, right?

 

[sekio]

I think all of these chlorinated alcohol analogs are a bad, bad idea.