"Chipping" with H/Oxy while on Suboxone...

[fallen_eden]

He has my medical records stating this and still "doesn't believe in giving an addict another addictive drug."

I had the EXACT same problem- suboxone *makes* you sort of jumpy, at least in some people (like me). Here's what you do. Stop asking him about it and find another doctor, but DON'T mention that you're on suboxone or that you have any addiction history. Go in for panic disorder, and if you're asked about you "primary" doctor, say that you felt uncomfotable with him and want a new doctor. Mention that you've been given Xanax in the past and it has helped you. Start small if you need to, (like say ativan) and try to work your way up to something better. Also, find a psychologist who can provide some backup for you- you have panic, and would benefit from a benzodiazepine prescription. (I would say just go to a psychiatrist to prescribe the benzo, but they're real sticklers and will try SSRIs and atypicals on you first like a fucking guinea pig.) Also remember not to tell any psychologist that you have an addiction history. If you keep jumping around, you will find a doctor who will do it. My own doctor prescribed me Ativan BEFORE I was a heroin addict, and then afterwards when I got on his suboxone program (he was licensed and I didn't even know it), he denied me anything, saying to me, "I think you're an addict." Even when I'd already gotten ativan from him before and never abused it? Bullshit..

And to the top post, make sure you wait the 36 hours to properly feel your shot. You can do it at 24, but you're still wasting some. Good luck!

 

[sixpartseven]

Wow, thanks a ton for that post SPS. That's pretty much exactly the type of all encompassing experience I was looking to hear about. I don't mind hearing about negative experiences too, though.

Also, I guess saying I have NO self control isn't exactly true. I just have no self control to stay off opiates, period. I've been on Suboxone for right at two months now, taken myself from 8 MGs a day to 6 MGs a day over the last week. Also, I haven't used once since induction, and there has been more than one opportunity to do so. My tolerance to dope before starting on Suboxone was about .4-.5 a gram of very good tar (well, as good as tar can be anyway), or one OC 80 in an IV session. I never let myself have more than two doses a day, even if I was sick, because I didn't want to be broke.

My preliminary plans for using are almost exactly what you described, weekends only. I've honestly been good in the past about rationing out dope and what not to make sure I was at least "well" the next morning, etc...

I'm going to be moving in with a close female friend of mine who is also starting a Suboxone regiment but wants to do the same. She's very disciplined/hard headed when it comes to drug use too, so we'll both be there to kind of ... well, slap the shit out of each other if either tries to break routine, heh.

Thanks again man. Keep 'em coming guys. Anybody have their life just go right back to shit while trying this routine?

If that bold part is actaully true, Id say you have more self control than you give yourself credit for.

 

[babygetoboy]

I agree SPS, being broke never came into my mind while using dope, never even crossed my mind, just keep using as much as possible then try to scam some more money when I'm out. Thank god for suboxone.

BTW SPS, it's your boy from GP

 

[sixpartseven]

oooooh. I got it.

Im an idiot.

 

[Opiocorpus]

If that bold part is actaully true, Id say you have more self control than you give yourself credit for.

I really do, and yeah that bolded part is true. Honestly I just misworded it. I have a lot of self control when it comes to actually rationing out things and making sure I don't get in a situation where I'm completely fucked, what I mean by not having self control is that I just can not stay off of opiates entirely, and just overall have an "addictive personality."

 

[phatass]

I had the EXACT same problem- suboxone *makes* you sort of jumpy, at least in some people (like me). Here's what you do. Stop asking him about it and find another doctor, but DON'T mention that you're on suboxone or that you have any addiction history. Go in for panic disorder, and if you're asked about you "primary" doctor, say that you felt uncomfotable with him and want a new doctor. Mention that you've been given Xanax in the past and it has helped you. Start small if you need to, (like say ativan) and try to work your way up to something better. Also, find a psychologist who can provide some backup for you- you have panic, and would benefit from a benzodiazepine prescription. (I would say just go to a psychiatrist to prescribe the benzo, but they're real sticklers and will try SSRIs and atypicals on you first like a fucking guinea pig.) Also remember not to tell any psychologist that you have an addiction history. If you keep jumping around, you will find a doctor who will do it. My own doctor prescribed me Ativan BEFORE I was a heroin addict, and then afterwards when I got on his suboxone program (he was licensed and I didn't even know it), he denied me anything, saying to me, "I think you're an addict." Even when I'd already gotten ativan from him before and never abused it? Bullshit..

And to the top post, make sure you wait the 36 hours to properly feel your shot. You can do it at 24, but you're still wasting some. Good luck!

this sounds quite expensive if you have no insurance... and if u do have insurance they might bust you for this.... jus be cautious...

 

[jykkE]

this sounds quite expensive if you have no insurance... and if u do have insurance they might bust you for this.... jus be cautious...

not to mention pretty shitty to do when there are people who need those meds for real problems. all the bullshit that occurs because people doctor shop and make shit up fucks things up for real patients. im not, prescribed any benzo, and this type of thing still pisses me off. guess its my friends that need their klonopin or whatever. whats helping them very well could eventually get taken away from them due to retards eating them like candy. then they would suffer.

im also pissed at some people at the methadone clinic i goto that eventually get the luxury of takehomes, sometimes even a weeks worth at a time, and will turn around and sell them. or take them all, and the clinic finds out with a bottle check or something. that makes me look bad, which might fuck takehomes up for everyone. i havent gotten takehomes yet, im almost at 90 days, and even then ill only get 1-2 days worth. you have to be going for well over a year before you get a decent supply of takehomes. if even more red tape and conditions are added thanks to people screwing around, legit programs and patients suffer. and dragging my ass down there every day is pleasant only so many times.

/endrant

 

[center]

Isn't being a heroin chipper a complete phrase of denial? You're a heroin user. You're an oxy user. I advocate staying on your maintenance and therapy. Quit the fucking drugs dude, if you're on maintenance, you've already made it thus far...keep it up, let that bullshit go.

 

[Opiocorpus]

Isn't being a heroin chipper a complete phrase of denial? You're a heroin user. You're an oxy user. I advocate staying on your maintenance and therapy. Quit the fucking drugs dude, if you're on maintenance, you've already made it thus far...keep it up, let that bullshit go.

I honestly appreciate this advice, and am flattered by your concern considering how much we've been butting heads lately. I have no denial at all about my addiction. I am a junkie. I have accepted that. As much as I wish I could just "let that bullshit go" as you put it, I know that for me it's not realistic at this stage in my life and the current situation I'm in, which I won't go into detail with. Hell considering where I was in life 3 months ago, I'm god damned proud of myself for the changes I have managed to make, but I'm not done with my addiction. I never hit a "rock bottom" so to speak, I just got to where I was sick of the lifestyle. I really don't think I'm kidding myself to think that I could still use 3-4 times a month and continue on with the better direction my life has been taking. If it looks like it's about to turn to shit, trust me (whether you or anybody wants to believe me or not) I'll be right back on my regular regiment of Suboxone. It's something I have to do. It's improved a LOT of things in my life that I don't want to change. If the idea I'm proposing changes that, I'll do exactly what I did in the first place... start a standard, normal Suboxone regiment.

Thanks again man.

 

[sixpartseven]

Isn't being a heroin chipper a complete phrase of denial? You're a heroin user. You're an oxy user. I advocate staying on your maintenance and therapy. Quit the fucking drugs dude, if you're on maintenance, you've already made it thus far...keep it up, let that bullshit go.

I get where youre coming from, but its much easier said than done. Try being in his situation and saying the same thing. Im not trying to be condescending or whatever, but you havent been addicted to opiates before. Its hard for you to understand that its really hard to "let the bullshit go."

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

I know that for me it's not realistic at this stage in my life and the current situation I'm in, which I won't go into detail with.

This is bullshit. We all have problems, you are only lying to yourself when you think your's are any worse than others. You think like this you'll just be a loser.

If you are using because of your 'stage in life' then you are going to get addicted real quick. The only stage of life you're in is drug addiction, plain and simple.

. I really don't think I'm kidding myself to think that I could still use 3-4 times a month and continue on with the better direction my life has been taking

I don't think you are either, but we're still junkies, just with psychological addiction instead. Arguably, this is just as serious as a physical one.

Good luck man. I've been chipping for 4 years and recently the psychological addiction is going crazy. The problem with chipping is that over the years your psychological addiction only gets worse and worse, you are doing nothing to maintain that. You become more and more separate from the rest of society, and you may end up missing out on important events in your life. For sure, it is better than being physically addicted and getting strung out. I can't see myself ever stop using heroin permanently, although I frequently take breaks to clean out my system (detox doesn't just mean ridding yourself of physical addiction, just using once 'toxifies' your system).

Be careful. We chippers are a rare breed. It's a crutch that prevents us from doing what normal people do to avoid the daily doldrums.

I don't understand why people who are on maintenance programs use? If you aren't ready to quit, you shouldn't be on them. You're just wasting your parent's money.

 

[center]

Try beating alcoholism for 5 months.

You act like I'm a stranger to suffering of acute withdrawal. Yours doesn't have a fatal possibility.

Don't act like I haven't been in the same situation, just different shoes, and quite frankly--- I'm glad.

 

[sixpartseven]

Try beating alcoholism for 5 months.

You act like I'm a stranger to suffering of acute withdrawal. Yours doesn't have a fatal possibility.

Don't act like I haven't been in the same situation, just different shoes, and quite frankly--- I'm glad.

Its apples and oranges man. Alcohol an heroin are not the same thing. I said I wasnt being condescending either, so chill out.

Where did I say your withdrawals werent bad? I never said a single thing about withdrawals. Im well aware alcohol withdrawals are fatal. This thread has NOTHING to do with withdrawals. What you said doesnt even make sense in the context of the thread.

What Im talking about is the urge to still use heroin while on suboxone. What does that have to do with alcohol? What does that have to do with anything youve just said?

Im not acting like anything. Youve just admitted yourself that you werent in the same situation. You were drinking alcohol. This guys doing heroin.

When you know what youre talking about, come back and reply.

I cant believe youve actually dropped to the level of comparing severity of withdrawals just to make yourself seem right. "My addiction is worse than yours" is about as important of an argument as "my daddy can beat up your daddy" is.

 

[babygetoboy]

Just don't pay attention to Center, he's ruining almost every thread I'm trying to read

 

[Opiocorpus]

This is bullshit. We all have problems, you are only lying to yourself when you think your's are any worse than others. You think like this you'll just be a loser.

If you are using because of your 'stage in life' then you are going to get addicted real quick. The only stage of life you're in is drug addiction, plain and simple.



I don't think you are either, but we're still junkies, just with psychological addiction instead. Arguably, this is just as serious as a physical one.



I don't understand why people who are on maintenance programs use? If you aren't ready to quit, you shouldn't be on them. You're just wasting your parent's money.

Where did I say that my problems were worse than any others? Actually the situation I'm referring to that I'm about to be in has nothing to do with life being "bad" at all, it has to do with the environment I'll be in that is going to be a huge step UP from where I've been the last year or so.

And why is it hard to understand that people on maintenance programs still use? I think it's pretty self explanatory, we want to get high. For a lot of people, like SPS, they are able to maintain an every day normal life because of their maintenance meds, with the "treat" of being able to actually let loose and get high every now and then.

And lastly, it's not my parents money. My father loaned me the money to start induction and it has already been paid back, and my 'scripts are paid for by me and nobody else.

And to say that if you're not ready to quit you shouldn't be on them can be true in some cases, but in the regional areas I'm in, I know for a fact that the majority of the doctors who are licensed to prescribe Suboxone are nowhere near their patient limit, because I've asked about referring friends to them and they have said they have plenty of room. Hell, the one I'll be going with back home only has 4 patients. So, it's not like I'm robbing somebody of their treatment.

Oh, one more note, the 'stage of life' I'm referring to isn't a "bad" stage of life, in fact, it's one of the better ones I've had. And, I'm already addicted, so it's not like I was just chipping before. I was a heavy user. Sorry if I'm coming off as kind of asshole'ish here, but you truly don't have a clue about the situations I'm speaking of that I'm about to find myself in. They're all actually quite good things and I'm excited to be going back to them.

/slightly annoyed rant. I apologize for going off Teddy, you actually seem like a pretty caring and knowledgeable dude, but the situation I'm in is definitely unique and not a "poor me" situation at all. I don't use because my life sucks, I use because I like to be high.

 

[chicpoena]

Isn't being a heroin chipper a complete phrase of denial?

No. I know plenty of people who are able to recreationally use opiates, but I know MORE people who got addicted (myself included). There are people who are able to control themselves and use occasionally.

I used morphine while I was on suboxone. It happens

 

[T-Lo9999]

you can use once a month and still be addicted

most people dont understand the true meaning of addiction

(just like most people think alcoholics are the bums in the street drinking cheap wine, when in fact the definition of alcoholism is a lot more complicated than that, and most people who drink are some degree of alcoholic)

it is a lot easier to be a chipper and not get physically addicted though. this way you can still maintain a (very small) amount of control and not have to deal with being sick which means it will be easier to live a somewhat normal life without being strung out ALL the time.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

And why is it hard to understand that people on maintenance programs still use? I think it's pretty self explanatory, we want to get high. For a lot of people, like SPS, they are able to maintain an every day normal life because of their maintenance meds, with the "treat" of being able to actually let loose and get high every now and then.

If you want to get high, then get off the maintenance medication. It's like taking sleeping pills if you're trying to stay awake to study for an exam, or speed if you're trying to get to bed early.

but you truly don't have a clue about the situations I'm speaking of that I'm about to find myself in. They're all actually quite good things and I'm excited to be going back to them.

I don't use because my life sucks, I use because I like to be high.

Most chippers, such as myself and apparently you, use because we are addicted to getting high. And that's fine.

But don't use heroin because of whatever is going on in your life. You are not in a unique situation, I guarantee it. Quit kidding yourself, and if you use it as a crutch it'll quickly turn into an addiction rather than just chipping.

Take it from someone who chips. You can't use heroin because of where you are in life. You're not special, you're not in any different situation that no one else has been in. You're life is the same as everyone else's, so learn to deal with it like everyone else.

Even if it is special, it makes no difference. Someone can feel the same psychologically from losing their girlfriend or being cheated on or losing their job as someone who just got cancer or had their best friend die or whatever. It's all relative.

Isn't being a heroin chipper a complete phrase of denial?

It can be. It doesn't mean your not an addict or junky, it just means you can avoid physical addiction and avoid getting strung out. You are still psychologically addicted, and therefore harbor something that most people don't, a use of drugs.

 

[red647]

Man threads like this are depressing. I don't mean to derail the thread, but while we're talking about "chipping..."
is it even possible?

i mean, ive started to use oxy...I got about 8 free 40MG OC's and i was stoked, and i had one ofthe best 2 weeks of my life (lol..) and when i ran out i did go thru mild psychological W/Ds, but it wasnt horrible.
that was about a month ago, and ive been fine. now ive come into contact with some oxies and going to be buying soon...

threads like this really make me think twice though (Not that it will stop me though). Is it possible to use drugs like Oxy recreationaly? It really is a GREAT High, nothing comes close to it. Ive thought about using H a few times but that wont be for a while.

It seems that I read a lot of stories similiar to my own that ends up with people slipping into addiction...Surely there are such things as recreational users of opiates?

I can't wait to get my oxy :D

 

[rave23]

the first time you find yourself "wanting" the opiate, it is too late. Then it already consumes you. Not vica versa. The first day you wake up after your one-time-a-weekend-opiate thing and you call your dealer again, let it be subconsciously or not, you want it. And it has you. You just don't realize you're not a fair opponent, and you're just twitching in his clutch, trying to resist by telling you putting time in between uses will safe you from addiction...
Time is rellative. If you think "i want more tomorrow" or "i want more in 2 weeks", it's the same. You want it. The storry ends here.