Well, the steam-rolling of any semblance of democracy in Hong Kong continues unabated:
Beijing unanimously approves Hong Kong election overhaul, reducing democratic representation
China’s top legislative body has approved major changes to Hong Kong’s electoral system, with the 167 members present all voting in favour of the overhaul. The move reduces the number of seats in the legislature which are democratically elected by the public, and introduces a vetting committee to pre-approve potential candidates.
Beijing loyalist Tam Yiu-chung – Hong Kong’s sole delegate to the Standing Committee of the National People’s Congress (NPCSC) – said on Tuesday that members unanimously approved the amendments to Annex I and II of the Basic Law to revamp the city’s elections.
In a video released by the DAB, the city’s largest pro-Beijing Party, Tam said that the city’s legislature – expanded from 70 to 90 members – will see 40 members selected by the Election Committee. The committee, largely made up of pro-Beijing loyalists, currently selects the city’s chief executive.
The Election Committee will see more representatives from patriotic groups, Tam said, as well as members of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference and other national organisations.
The remaining seats will go to 30 lawmakers in functional constituencies, while only 20 seats will be democratically elected by the public. Functional constituencies consist of professional or special interest groups, such as commerce, industrial, accountancy or education.
Sad, but inevitable. This is what China will do with any country or territory it seizes control of. They're on track to take over the world in the next 20 years unless something radical is done to stop them.
I do NOT want to live under Chinese culture or their government rule.
Well, the steam-rolling of any semblance of democracy in Hong Kong continues unabated:
Beijing unanimously approves Hong Kong election overhaul, reducing democratic representation
China’s top legislative body has approved major changes to Hong Kong’s electoral system, with the 167 members present all voting in favour of the overhaul. The move reduces the number of seats in the legislature which are democratically elected by the public, and introduces a vetting committee to pre-approve potential candidates.
Beijing loyalist Tam Yiu-chung – Hong Kong’s sole delegate to the Standing Committee of the National People’s Congress (NPCSC) – said on Tuesday that members unanimously approved the amendments to Annex I and II of the Basic Law to revamp the city’s elections.
In a video released by the DAB, the city’s largest pro-Beijing Party, Tam said that the city’s legislature – expanded from 70 to 90 members – will see 40 members selected by the Election Committee. The committee, largely made up of pro-Beijing loyalists, currently selects the city’s chief executive.
The Election Committee will see more representatives from patriotic groups, Tam said, as well as members of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference and other national organisations.
The remaining seats will go to 30 lawmakers in functional constituencies, while only 20 seats will be democratically elected by the public. Functional constituencies consist of professional or special interest groups, such as commerce, industrial, accountancy or education.
But can people that are outraged about this also please be outraged about US interference in South American countries, doing this and much worse? Thank you.
And if we're doing things already we can talk about the endless wars and sanctions affections millions.
But can people that are outraged about this also please be outraged about US interference in South American countries, doing this and much worse? Thank you.
And if we're doing things already we can talk about the endless wars and sanctions affections millions.
I was born in Hong Kong SAR and grew up in Beijing. I have American/British citizenship. All of these things affect me. It's not "the US is evil, China is good" or "China is evil, the US is good" - it's much more nuanced than that. Were you expecting people to discuss US interference in South America...in the China thread?
Why not start a thread about US interference in SA?
I was born in Hong Kong SAR and grew up in Beijing. I have American/British citizenship. All of these things affect me. It's not "the US is evil, China is good" or "China is evil, the US is good" - it's much more nuanced than that. Were you expecting people to discuss US interference in South America...in the China thread?
My bad, I was annoyed at everything earlier.
But yes, "China evil, US good" is how this thread has gone from the start, hence my frustration. Not expecting anything here. I respect and recognize what's happening and you caring about it, it's bad, apart from that I don't have much to add. I hope others do.
To me, it's china is evil, US is... conflicted and stupid.
Mostly cause china's government is now pretty much entirely authoritarian while American government is a democracy representing retarded voters making it a retarded government.
This is inevitably going to be a conversation about Xingjiang, I'll get back to this at some point, as to not make this a shameless US bashing in the wrong topic
The US has many issues but at least we have a generally independent press and you won’t be thrown in prison for criticizing the govt. That’s kind of a big deal
note that I am not defending the US interventions in South America and the Middle East. It’s fucked up, I agree. But I find it hard to equate American imperialism with Chinese totalitarianism
China bullying southeast asia, uyghurs and even south american fishing zones, releasing lab made viruses and nobody has the balls to stand up to them... how far is this going to go?
China bullying southeast asia, uyghurs and even south american fishing zones, releasing lab made viruses and nobody has the balls to stand up to them... how far is this going to go?
I think you can do your part by trying to avoid products manufactured in China. We’re only helping them grow
i don’t think declaring war on China is really a good idea. As much as I’d like to see more countries stand up to them, idk how they should go about that
I think you can do your part by trying to avoid products manufactured in China. We’re only helping them grow
i don’t think declaring war on China is really a good idea. As much as I’d like to see more countries stand up to them, idk how they should go about that
Some people find evil a very strong word and are very selective about using it. And that's fine.
But I'm not so selective. And well, yea. I think China, by which I mean the officially sanctioned behaviors done in the name of the state known as the People's Republic of China. Has commited many acts that I would consider faaar eviler than ours.
This isn't new. It's gotta substantially worse since Xi came to power, but the problem predates that.
People often wanna act like the US is no better, but frankly I think that's crap. If the US were like China, it would be like when we rounded up the Japanese in internment camps... Buuuut never stopped doing that. Never apologized. And were still doing it today.
We don't do anything like that kind of evil. We have done some evil things at certain times for questionable motives and history has shown the country itself has felt guilt and conflict over them.
Yes we certainly make highly questionable decisions, ones that cost lives. But as I said. The US is like a person. With a mix of good and bad attributes and behaviors at different times.
China is far worse. The US may not be "good", but I have no qualms calling China evil.
I can't find the facepalm emote, every forum I've been on has had one.
Seriously, millions suffer, I've said this at least 10 times on this forum, it's like either people don't believe me and straight up facts, or it's justified, and then you say this:
Un-believable.
I'll get into this shit later when I have time, including Xingjiang that requires a full discussion, but I'm gonna be mad as fuck if people gonna keep up this extreme patriotic view of US affairs.
I have my biases but I'm at least consistent in being against human suffering.
I can't find the facepalm emote, every forum I've been on has had one.
Seriously, millions suffer, I've said this at least 10 times on this forum, it's like either people don't believe me and straight up facts, or it's justified, and then you say this:
Un-believable.
I'll get into this shit later when I have time, including Xingjiang that requires a full discussion, but I'm gonna be mad as fuck if people gonna keep up this extreme patriotic view of US affairs.
I have my biases but I'm at least consistent in being against human suffering.
Well if you wanna skip it I'm sure I've heard it all before anyway.
Personally I don't consider this blind patriotism. I'm not saying America hasn't been responsible for some shocking injustices and acts of violations of human rights.
But no, I don't think it can be honestly said to be of anything like the same scale and duration as China, and more importantly (as far as my priorities), the US is at least conflicted and self questioning about its mistakes.
When has china ever acted remotely conflicted about rounding people up into camps and abusing them. Or disappearing it's own citizens?
I don't think it's the same at all. I think there's an element of self loathing a lot of Americans carry, particularly amongst the left wing. That makes them think the US is just as bad as countries like China. It's not. And you're allowed to think that the US has a lot to answer for while simultaneously thinking China is far worse.
Alright let's get into Xinjiang, I'm on my second coffee, barely slept and my hypomanic episode is in full swing, confidence and energy are raging.
So, Xinjiang, what exactly are the accusations? They're sticking muslims in concentration camps, are forcing them to work in dystopian conditions and are slowly killing them, how many? It varies, at first it was a million, then it was two million, now it seems to be already up to 3 million. Shit went fast under the Trump admin
Alright, first thing that needs to be addressed is: how do we know this? Great question! Now, since I don't have the memory of a goldfish, I inherently mistrust mainstream western media outlets, so I'd like to go straight to the sources.
First of all, there's this Australian think thank ASPI, they published this report. Supposedly an "independent and non-partisan think thank". Based on this report Washington would later issue sanctions. Now here comes the funny, pay attention, lets take a look at their sponsors. Wuuut, a range of weapons manufacturers? It gets better, the Australian Foreign Influence Transparency Scheme (apparently instated by the government to monitor the China threat), revealed that more extensive sources of foreign funding included the US state department, NATO, and the UK foreign office. LINK. Sadly it's behind a paywall, but I took the liberty of bypassing the paywall and I'll be posting some quotes:
Over the past five years, the Canberra-based think tank has come to dominate the Australian public‘s understanding of China’s rise. It has staunch supporters, many in Parliament, who credit it with raising issues such as Chinese military involvement in Australian universities, the spread of Uighur detention camps in Xinjiang, and the recent and contested defection of a Chinese intelligence agent.
But ASPI, which is funded by the Department of Defence, foreign governments and military contractors, has also been accused of fomenting anti-China hysteria, to the alleged benefit of its benefactors.
Former NSW premier Bob Carr has accused it of pumping out a “one-sided, pro-American view of the world”. Veteran foreign editor Tony Walker has slammed its "dystopian worldview" which "leaves little room for viewing China as a potential partner". "It lacks integrity and brings shame to Australia," says retired former DFAT chief and ex-Qantas CEO John Menadue. “I see it as very much the architect of the China threat theory in Australia”, adds ex-ambassador to China turned Beijing-based business consultant Geoff Raby.
It is an unavoidable truth that all think tanks have to be funded from somewhere. All funding poses risks, both operational and reputational. ASPI, to its credit, has always been relatively transparent on whose support it relies, and makes much of its high research standards, designed to avoid undue influence.
When it comes to the Department of Defence, Jennings says the organisation is "remarkably arm's-length".
"We were designed to have a remarkable degree of independence in the topics we choose to write on, and in content and editorial judgments of what we say."
This is White's experience too. "When I was running ASPI, it was more or less 100 per cent funded by Defence," he says. "And I never had even the suggestion that the government or Defence was trying to direct us in what we said."
This was put to a hard test. "Almost the same month ASPI started operation, the issue of whether Australia should support the United States in invading Iraq came on the agenda. As director, I was critical. I thought it'd be a bad idea.
"John Howard never suggested to me, and neither did anyone else, that the position I was taking as director of ASPI was inappropriate.
"I don’t think there is something inherent in government funding that means you can’t be independent. I don’t have a problem with that – it just requires careful management and constant vigilance."
On funding from defence contractors, White does beg to differ. A few years ago, ASPI was best known for its work on evaluating the military budget, which is still a key part of its output. White believed, when he was in charge, that this was incompatible with taking cash from the companies the military buys things from.
On the issue of public funding, some point out that smart influence operations don't need to direct their agents. They just need to fund the work of people who they know will, in most cases, agree with their broad aims. The Department of Defence benefits in funding and importance from an arms race. So does the US military-industrial complex, another plank of ASPI's budget.
"Think of how insidious that is," says Raby, a former ambassador to China. "When the US wages a war, the military industrial complex benefits.
Let me post another great article, comments from Australian officials, no paywall, you'll get the gist of it in the first few paragraphs.
I can feel your neurons firing, thinking of saying "but but but that doesn't change what the ASPI is claiming!!" Well yes, but you need to see it in the larger picture, before every US invasion there were always rampant reports about human rights violations, or uhm nuclear bombs (lol) etc etc, this is in exactly the same vein, and playing to the benefit of all the right hands. These ASPI dudes are of course also the same people defending the Iraq and Syria interventions. If anyone reading this is in favor of both, I would advise you to stop, leave the thread and never admit this to anyone.
Now, since the claims that millions are detained and forced to work, lets see how they arrived at those numbers, here's the link. So, based on 8 interviews with Uighur people from 8 fairly small villages they arrived at those numbers. Please come enlighten me how they arrived at 3 million now, soon it'll be even higher, I promise now, there are other reports and 'scientific' publications that can easily be debunked in similar ways.
Don't get me wrong, I do condemn what is happening, which is that their 'concentration camps' ("that are reminiscent of the Holocaust", give me a break) are there because of religious extremism, and in the eyes of the average Chinese and their government, they see nothing wrong with all this if it's in exchange for more security. Yes, their ideology is likely closely monitored, and some bad things probably go on, but there is zero evidence for the scale of it, and all conversation around it and sources are incredibly non-critical. Calling it genocide and Holocaust like is just laughable, the Uighur population increased by 25% in the last 20 years ffs.
On March 13, Cuba delivered a joint statement on behalf of 64 countries at the 46th session of the United Nations Human Rights Council, calling on some forces to stop making unfounded allegations against China out of political motivations, as well as stop interfering in China's internal affairs by manipulating Xinjiang related issues
You're likely thinking one of two things currently, either I'm full of shit and that you're sure all these claims are going on despite no real evidence, and you believe that this a normal way of doing global politics and doesn't suspiciously fit any narrative. Or, it's starting to dawn on you that you have been kinda brainwashed with constant anti China propaganda, and will be more critical of things in the future (unlikely). This preface is merely given to filter out unreasonable people that have no idea what they're talking about.
What should China do then? I believe they should open everything up for the UN, so we can finally leave this propaganda driven hysteria behind us. Why don't they? Well, the Chinese are proud, and think it's wildly hypocritical of the US that has been responsible for immense human rights violations and has a long standing history of suppressing ethnic minorities themselves, where Mr. Biden himself isn't all that innocent himself. Frankly, they're right, and this is how much of the world sees it as well, since they have first hand witnessed the destruction the US has caused. These are things a large part of westerners don't realize. But they should indeed open up. If things magically appear to be how these dodgy reports say, I will happily say mea culpa, but this is the level of discussion that should take place, we can't just take everything at face value, not criticize shit when everything points to purposely wanting to escalate a cold war with China. Dodgy global smear campaigns have served as a preface for every US intervention, yet I appear to be the only one here that sees this.
There's much more to be said about this, but that's all from me for now, it will also serve as a great introduction to the discussion around "who is more evil?" which will be a banger and I'll get to tonight. Do throw some links, viewpoints etc around, I'm far from infallible and I welcome the discussion, but be reasonable and not a parrot.
In short: people need to get out of the echo chamber, and submit all of these reports to actual fact checking, by people with diverse backgrounds, and that don't have obvious ties to the US and UK government. We shouldn't want Bluelight to be part of the echo chamber, which it has been on many topics and I'll 'fight' against it as long as I'm on this forum.
A personal fave of mine, this argument.
Rather ironic that all the while we were throwing trillion dollar budgets at defending ourselves against the evil rise of those terrorist Muslim’s who were going to take over the world and have us all marry our sisters, have sex with goats and make us walk round with sheets on our faces, the Chinese were sneaking up on the inside waiting for their chance to cripple the world economy to gain dominance of a different kind.
They’re now almost able to control enough of the world trade to force us into doing whatever bidding they see fit.
And they haven’t spent a cent physically invading a thing, nothing to rebuild and nothing to change.
They can just send us all to work in their sweat shops for $8 a day, put their feet up and enjoy approaching world power.
And we won’t even need to eat our soup with chopsticks.
A personal fave of mine, this argument.
Rather ironic that all the while we were throwing trillion dollar budgets at defending ourselves against the evil rise of those terrorist Muslim’s who were going to take over the world and have us all marry our sisters, have sex with goats and make us walk round with sheets on our faces, the Chinese were sneaking up on the inside waiting for their chance to cripple the world economy to gain dominance of a different kind.
They’re now almost able to control enough of the world trade to force us into doing whatever bidding they see fit.
And they haven’t spent a cent physically invading a thing, nothing to rebuild and nothing to change.
They can just send us all to work in their sweat shops for $8 a day, put their feet up and enjoy approaching world power.
And we won’t even need to eat our soup with chopsticks.
Yeah. Instead of throwing bombs China went the route of offering humanitarian help and establishing trade agreements in the Middle East instead of throwing bombs and sanctions around like it’s nothing. Are their motives dodgy? For sure.
But note that this is being regarded as evil, and literally destroying countries and their people is being excused as questionable motives. Nothing is preventing the US from sitting around a table and try to catch up economically but they’re still stuck in the 80s.
now, there are other reports and 'scientific' publications that can easily be debunked in similar ways.