Chemical Structure Query - RC's

[jeano9]

I'm seeking some advice from any of the experienced members or chemists out there about what makes a chemical structurally similar to another.

In the case of prolintane and pyrovalerone, they are meant to be similar however I wasn't sure if that conclusion is reached just by looking at them and comparing (or superimposing), or whether there are specific rules regarding substitutions and alterations of certain elements of the chemical structure that need to be followed. If so what would they need to be, to be deemed similar?

Wikipedia in all its wondrous knowledgeable glory says prolintane and pyrovaleron are chemically similar in structure. What would a court need to link together to prove that they are similar in structure if someone was being charged under an analogue act? This may be useful to those also curious about the legality of some RC's and whether they are regarded as an analogue or not.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Jeano

 

[Turing Machine]

Pyrovalerone is prolintane with an added ketone (a double bonded oxygen) and a methyl (CH3) group. I assume you can see that the structure of prolintane can be superimposed over pyrovalerone.

 

[jeano9]

Cheers. It is also related to MDPV however MDPV is mostly only illegal under the analogue acts in some places, were pyrovaleron is specifically listed in some places. I'm just trying to work out its legality. Pyrovaleron is a prescription only medicine, I wonder what sort of penalty it would carry if found with an analogue of it (prolintane) in a place with very broad analogue legislation?

 

[ziddy]

Pyrovalerone is a CV substance, and to my knowledge the analog act only applies to compounds in CI and CII (speaking of the federal law here). State laws may vary.

 

[Phener]

most analogue acts are not strict hence there appeal.

you sell enough of drug x, kill enough people, they will pay a lawyer enough money to proove they are "similar" or that you are supplying with intent - operation webtryp etc

 

[Ceres]

In the case of prolintane and pyrovalerone, they are meant to be similar however I wasn't sure if that conclusion is reached just by looking at them and comparing (or superimposing), or whether there are specific rules regarding substitutions and alterations of certain elements of the chemical structure that need to be followed. If so what would they need to be, to be deemed similar?

In the UK there are explicit definitions;

“(ab) Any compound structurally derived from 2–aminopropan–1–one by substitution at the 1-position with any monocyclic, or fused‑polycyclic ring system (not being a phenyl ring or alkylenedioxyphenyl ring system), whether or not the compound is further modified in any of the following ways, that is to say,

(i) by substitution in the ring system to any extent with alkyl, alkoxy, haloalkyl or halide substituents, whether or not further substituted in the ring system by one or more other univalent substituents;

(ii) by substitution at the 3–position with an alkyl substituent;

(iii) by substitution at the 2‑amino nitrogen atom with alkyl or dialkyl groups, or by inclusion of the 2‑amino nitrogen atom in a cyclic structure.”.

..in the US I think almost anything can be construed as an analogue once it's been decided you're going to jail. Has anyone ever argued their case in a situation like that, infront of a judge, and won?....I wonder...

 

[nuke]

The US law can be interpreted as as long as whatever substance you possess has an effect similar to a current SI/SII drug, you can be charged as you would be for possessing that drug.

So... basically, do you have enough money to pay lawyers and expert witnesses to testify on your side? Because if not, I'd be cautious.

 

[ziddy]

most analogue acts are not strict hence there appeal.

you sell enough of drug x, kill enough people, they will pay a lawyer enough money to proove they are "similar" or that you are supplying with intent - operation webtryp etc

In a criminal case, the plaintiff is the government, meaning the lawyers are prosecutors - salaried public servants. Titles include "Assistant District Attorney," "Deputy District Attorney," "Assistant State's Attorney," for the state level, and "Assistant United States Attorney" for federal. They get paid the same amount regardless of what case they're prosecuting. Sorry for nitpicking, but it's the defense attorneys that can set their price, and I thought it was an important distinction to make.

 

[Turing Machine]

In a criminal case, the plaintiff is the government, meaning the lawyers are prosecutors - salaried public servants. Titles include "Assistant District Attorney," "Deputy District Attorney," "Assistant State's Attorney," for the state level, and "Assistant United States Attorney" for federal. They get paid the same amount regardless of what case they're prosecuting. Sorry for nitpicking, but it's the defense attorneys that can set their price, and I thought it was an important distinction to make.

Well, that's not fully true. Since afaik no US states have analog acts similar to the federal analog act in the US all analog act prosecutions are done in federal court, there's many lawyers who are on different pay scales working as federal prosecutors. A few states have cannabinoid agonist laws which are similar to analog acts but they're pretty clear although I think cannabinoids are more common that the lawmakers were aware. Anyways, the number of prosecutors and the amount of hours (well, they are salaried and not hourly but you get my point) each prosecutor spends translates into more money spent on the prosecution. There's also expert witnesses which an analog act prosecution will most likely employ if it goes to trial. Obviously more reputable experts is more money spent. My point is not all federal prosecutions are equal. A timothy mcveigh or Khalid Shaikh Mohammed will obviously have more money spent on the prosecution than someone who was caught speeding in a national park.

It also should be said that since all analog act prosecutions will be federal, that in a federal prosecution the judges and prosecutors are completely unreasonable, perhaps because of a corporate ladder that extends much higher than local or state government and the prospect of future national political office. I've gotten a federal jail and probation sentence for failing to renew a drivers license while driving in a national park. The judge even ordered me to give a urine test before I could leave the courthouse. There were no mentions of drugs in my case at all and I even allowed the park ranger to search my car. Fortunately I passed. Federal courts also give much longer sentences for the same charge than state or county courts although the feds count time served differently than the states do. On the plus side with the Feds I think it is 16 hours counts as a day, so 48 hours counts as three days in custody for some reason. Also, federal prisons are generally safer than state county and city jails and prisons with better food and more amenities as well. However, federal sentences are not strictly served in federal prisons, some local jails and prisons are licensed by the BOP to accept federal inmates. I served my ten day federal sentence for failing to renew my drivers license in a city jail, and had US Marshalls as my probation officers. My point is, an analog act prosecution will be ten times more severe than a prosecution for a scheduled drug in county court.

 

[ziddy]

You raise some good points. The feds definitely have more resources at their disposal than your local DA's office is going to. I know in my state there is some analog wording in a new law scheduling synthetic cannabinoids, so I would assume that there are some analog prosecutions done on the state level. Jailtime and probation for forgetting to renew your driver's license is nuts though!