Charlottesville, Virginia

[aihfl]

But is carrying a bunch of torches an illegal act?? Answer the question, please


Virginia is an open-carry Sate. Perfectly legal to walk around with an AR-15

Thousands of battered women will attest to the fact that while police are not able to do anything about threatening behavior, the intent is purely malicious.

They exist because there are people out there, such as yourself, who happen to disagree with the political opinions of others and do not even want to allow them the air of free speech or the space of lawful protest and gathering. Which all in all tells you who the real fascists are.

That say, the German government is Fascist, because it does not tolerate the celebration of Nazism is news to me. I seriously hope that SS is not a celebration of the actual SS because that would cause me to not take anything you have to say seriously at all.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Trump condemned the violence on both sides of the Charlettville incident, but still most of the Media continues to foster the idea that he sides with the "white supremacists" who in fact were not white supremacists but called "Unite the Right".

They had a permit and therefore the right to protest. Now you and I can condemn their position, but they still did all the right legal things so as to be there legally. Antifa and BLM did not, however. They were breaking the law.

 

[aihfl]

Trump condemned the violence on both sides of the Charlettville incident, but still most of the Media continues to foster the idea that he sides with the "white supremacists" who in fact were not white supremacists but called "Unite the Right".

No, they are white supremacists. The National Vanguard was there and that is a known hate group. As for people who were there that, say, were not members of the National Vanguard that were there, while they may not have been members of a hate group per se, if it walks like a duck...

I find it deliciously ironic that someone calling themselves White Rose is defending Neonazis.

 

[Scrofula]

[in the UK] blamed on the "far-right" group despite people who were actually there reporting that it was the counter-protestors who threw the first punch.

It doesn't matter who threw the first rock.

It was not a conspiracy driving that car, and it is not a conspiracy that the president pandered to folks like the driver during his campaign, and missed the laziest lob of a softball chance to counter allegations he agrees with those folks; and failed as a human being in his failure to show empathy or compassion for the victims.

Your "antifa" lefty kids have nothing to do with it even if they did; next semester they'll have a new name, same as it ever was.

Free speech and right to assemble have nothing to do with it either, though I support both of those things, and the bastards right to practice them.

There's really nothing left to argle bargle except for its own sake: nazis are nazis and the victims were the ones hit by the car.

And you're bullshitting or naive or non-American maybe, if you think these rally groups weren't looking for exactly this to happen. I say non-American because I don't think anyone has brought up the prison connection yet. It is mostly a prison connection, minus a few redneck variants. A few members will have a pretty good understanding of how riots operate: how to start one, remain calm in one, don't flinch when shots are fired, create diversions, maybe meet your objectives during one. Doesn't mean that's what happened. Most of the members the other day probably just wanted to . . . a confrontation.

I'm sure the members all immediately identified and turned in the murderer in their midst.

 

[alasdairm]

I'm actually getting really tired of your ad homs and personal attacks.

there was no ad-hom in the post you quoted.

here are some good examples of what an ad-hom is:

In that case you must be an idiot...

You're a trolling f*ckwit.

and here are some insults and abuse from a bluelighter who cries about insults and abuse:

...you autistically repeat...

Originally Posted by libtards

The Libtards...

if you want your complaint to be taken seriously, maybe stop doing yourself what you're crying about other people doing?



alasdair

 

[Fresco]

Here ya go Lefties, happy now??

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...h-over-his-first-charlottesville-remarks.html

 

[LiquidMethod]

I am not personally harassing anyone the way scrofula is. There is throwing the occasional jab to reinforce a point and then there is just blatant inane trolling.

And I need to use to word libtard to refer to a specific segment of the fringe-Left.
I don't like referring to these people as Liberals because I am a Liberal and I disagree with what their new ideology represents.

It doesn't matter who threw the first rock.

Uhh yes it fucking matters. Greatly.

Most of the members the other day probably just wanted to . . . a confrontation.

It takes two to tango. Why give them a confrontation?
If you decide that they "probably just wanted" to fight, then I guess it's justified for you to preemptively beat them up.

 

[spacejunk]

They exist because there are people out there, such as yourself, who happen to disagree with the political opinions of others and do not even want to allow them the air of free speech or the space of lawful protest and gathering. Which all in all tells you who the real fascists are.

what about our freedom of speech to oppose nazi bullshit?

i think this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. freedom of speech does not protect speech which is threatening and intimidating.

"Which all in all tells you who the real fascists are." the fascists are the fascists.
i'm glad i could clear that up for you. any questions?

In the UK we have 'Unite Against Fascism', who's sole purpose it seems is to turn up whenever there is an event being held by the BNP, EDL or other designated "far-right" group, and basically prevent them from having a peaceful protest or march by instigating violence in order to detract attention away from the actual protest or march.. which inevitably happens and is subsequently blamed on the "far-right" group despite people who were actually there reporting that it was the counter-protestors who threw the first punch.

i don't have a problem with militant anti-fascism. i'm quite sure i've made this clear before.
if nazis don't like intense opposition, they can stop being nazis.
the same cannot be said for the sort of people nazis target - ie black people and jews.

I suspect your condemnations and support only goes one way. What do you have to say for the Black Lives Matter group?

they're great, and i think they make an incredibly important point about police brutality and institutionalised racism/ you seem to be offended by that, but that's tough mate.

Or for the Antifa thugs?

i'm glad 'antifa thugs' exist. the left need to be militant too when it comes to ressisting fascism. that may make some people uncomfortable, but you don't stop lyncch mobs by holding hands and singing coombaya

being militant is not a prerequisite like it is for neo-nazis, but i'm very glad to have some brave people on our side who aren't afraid to confront nazis.
most anti-fascists are completely non-violent, and the vast, vast majority of antifascist activism is non-violent direct action

i noticed in some of footage i've seen of fights in Charlottesville that there were some girls getting in there and punching some nazis. that's awesome. anti-fascists are equal opportunity employers mate

Do communities not have a right to not be intimidated by those groups also?

nazis aren't a community, they're either terrorist organisation, or terrorist affiliates.

From what I've seen the anti-fascists are just as hateful and prone to violence as the so called fascists, and the only difference between them being that the fascists aren't the ones trying to silence the opposition. It's all back to front.

can you name any non-violent fascists?

fascism is conspiracy to murder.
anti-fascist activists are a very large and diverse group (young, old and in between) who are interested in protecting communities from fascists and bigots.

you make it sound like racists, homophobes and other terrorrist reactionaries are somehow reasonable people that can be trusted not to abuse power or commit appalling acts of violence against communities and minority groups. i won't accept people parading around with messages of hate, so i will always try to act in solidarity with my proudly multicultural community to oppose these nazi political forces. we cannot risk normalising this shit more than it already is. you will find anti-fascists all over the world, because there are a lot of good, brave people in the world prepared to stand up to spiteful demagogues and fascists.
not everyone agrees with"antifa" tactics, but it makes it more difficult for nazis to operate, so i'm of the opinion that militant anti-fascism works to some degree - but it's definitely not perfect.
i think it is dishonest - or mistaken - to blame anti-fascists for escalating nazi violence.
nazis have always been incredibly violent, and always will be. same goes for the KKK before them, the white supremacists and slave owners that came before them - and that's just in the USA's short history. people have oppressed others for thousands of years.- it's nothing new, but to claim that nazs are oppressed by antifa is laughable.
nazis seek to dominate and crush all opposition - you'll notice that antifa only really seem to go for fascists.
i disagree with a lot of people on this crazy old world of ours, but the only people ii think it is imperative to oppose, disrupt and destroy are fascist or nazi organisations.


i dont care if you agree with me SS, but i'm being honest with you.
it might seem "back to front" to you to oppose nazism, but it makes perfect sense to me.

 

[alasdairm]

I am not personally harassing anyone the way scrofula is. There is throwing the occasional jab to reinforce a point and then there is just blatant inane trolling.

And I need to use to word libtard to refer to a specific segment of the fringe-Left.
I don't like referring to these people as Liberals because I am a Liberal and I disagree with what their new ideology represents.



Uhh yes it fucking matters. Greatly.


It takes two to tango. Why give them a confrontation?
If you decide that they "probably just wanted" to fight, then I guess it's justified for you to preemptively beat them up.

yep. no worries.

just to be clear, insults and abuse are only a problem when anybody other than you is doing it. thanks for the clarification.

the irony here is lost on you, i think.

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

Here ya go Lefties, happy now??

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...h-over-his-first-charlottesville-remarks.html

sure. too bad he only did it because his staff shit the bed and told him he had to...

alasdair

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

There's a difference between supporting them and supporting the rights of all Americans. They had the absolute right to assemble since they had done all the legal paperwork.

You can't take way their rights just because you disagree with them or label them as "hate groups". That is the essence of America.

 

[spacejunk]

I say non-American because I don't think anyone has brought up the prison connection yet.

wow, that's a really interresting point.

are you referring to aryan brotherhood or whatever the huge nazi prison gang is?

that being the case, i wonder if the spread of this ideology has i link in with the prison industrial complex and the mass incarceration of american citizens? is that what you are referring to?

the first thought i had when looking at people squaring-off on both sides is how much the nazis behaved like an army - so my thought was associated with the military industrial complex, and how many damaged souls are coming back from the USA's permanent war.
whether it's either - or both - i think it's fair to say there are a lot of damaged people out there that get chewed up and spat out by the system.
would you agree with that?

 

[-=SS=-]

what about our freedom of speech to oppose nazi bullshit?

i think this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. freedom of speech does not protect speech which is threatening and intimidating.

A lot of your position rests on the presumption that you are correct in your designation of who is a nazi and who isn't. I don't know much about this event in the USA, but the relation I made to the UK situation I know that the BNP, EDL etc are not Nazis. There may be individuals within those groups who are sure, but as a whole they aren't nazis or fascists. Distasteful political opinions maybe, but that's a matter of ones perceptions.

Unless these people were making actual threats or directly harassing members of the public you can't claim there demonstration was unlawful really. Any large group of people is intimidating, and threatening if the motivation for being there is political. But that's not the same as intimidating individuals or directly threatening individuals. That may have happened here, I haven't really paid that much attention to this news story to be honest.

"Which all in all tells you who the real fascists are." the fascists are the fascists.

Again this seems to rest on your belief that you know who the fascists are. In the UK it's clear to me who the real fascists are, and it's not the far-right groups.

i don't have a problem with militant anti-fascism. i'm quite sure i've made this clear before.
if nazis don't like intense opposition, they can stop being nazis.

Well if that's your position fine, I just wonder if you have the capacity to recognize the hypocrisy of your position. You're fine with violence just so long as it's your violence. In my opinion that makes you just as dangerous as any fascist or nazi.

you make it sound like racists, homophobes and other terrorrist reactionaries are somehow reasonable people that can be trusted not to abuse power or commit appalling acts of violence against communities and minority groups. i won't accept people parading around with messages of hate, so i will always try to act in solidarity with my proudly multicultural community to oppose these nazi political forces.

So what about Black Lives Mattter? Are you comfortable with that organization and their position? From what I've seen and read they're filled with as much hate as any other group mentioned in this discussion.

i dont care if you agree with me SS, but i'm being honest with you.
it might seem "back to front" to you to oppose nazism, but it makes perfect sense to me.

I know it makes perfect sense to you. That's why your position is as dangerous as those you claim to oppose. You're blinded by your own political anger.

 

[Fresco]

You guys are forgetting another key point, if you let these neo-nazi clowns have their march, you can then take their pics, take down their license plate numbers, maybe even follow some of them home, and you have then identified who they are, and the FBI can then put them all under surveillance.

So you see, letting them march is a good thing

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

You guys are forgetting another key point, if you let these neo-nazi clowns have their march, you can then take their pics, take down their license plate numbers, maybe even follow some of them home, and you have then identified who they are, and the FBI can then put them all under surveillance.

So you see, letting them march is a good thing

Yes, freedom is always the right answer.

 

[Scrofula]

Uh, 80th time I support the right to assemble and practice free speech, given to me as an American by the Constitution, and which extends to idiots too.

That they can legally march is not at issue. No one has bitten that hook.

Whether or not they are NAZIs or "nazis" isn't that interesting, and since they're professed white supremacists, pointless. They're racists.


And I don't know much about prison gangs, when I was in I just killed the first person I saw, and they left me alone. But US prisons self-segregate on race and gang affiliation, and when they get out they're still in the gang. If you're non-Jewish white and do time, you get put there, like it or not. I know at least a few of the white power groups are prison offshoots. I'm sure a couple hick groups are mostly dudes who may just have done some county time.

But see, it takes one peckerwood ex-con to show up to your meeting of white malcontents, who knows how to start a riot as diversion, to get the whole thing rolling; the dorks there would love that guy.


ETA: and their parole officers are already watching them, don't need FBI

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

So then, let people be free. If you're that asshole that just HAS to be violent, expect to be arrested, jailed or whatever is appropriate.

What so difficult about that?

 

[spacejunk]

So then, let people be free. If you're that asshole that just HAS to be violent, expect to be arrested, jailed or whatever is appropriate.

What so difficult about that?

what makes you so sure the anti-fascists initiated violence?
i saw a link on social media earlier purporting to show that the nazis initiated the violence by charging head-on into the counter demonstrators.

would you maintain your position that terrorist mobs of nazis should be permitted to "march" like this, if the assumption that anti-fascists started it was proven to be wrong?

i will find the video when i get a chance, i haven't watched it

 

[Scrofula]

Sure, this is double guilt by association, but the context of ninety years ago gives you an idea that this isn't new, and that there's a direct line between the ralliers here, and the ones who used to hang black men and boys from trees. And perhaps a line from there to the president.

My Snarky Fringe Global Site

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Actually it was that asshole that drove a car into the crowd, so I guess it wasn't anti-facist. Wehere did you get the idea that it was to be applied to anti-facists. I only ask for freedom. Where would Dr Martin Luther King get without the freedom to express an idea that was not popular at the time? Freedom of Speech my brother.

This sword has a double edge, be careful how you wield it, it can cut you too. Think things though all the way. What would happen if Trump decided to use that power for himself.


Absolute Freedom of Speech is the entirety of what I am speaking here today. Anyone with a thread of moral fiber condemns the action of the driver who struck all those people. That guy is the enemy.

Don't let this incident allow more power to the government. Look what happened to the NSA after 911. Think it through.