• Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

certain brands of generics being "weak"

tsion

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
81
recently, I've been taking what are *labeled*, at least, as Watson 10/325 generic "Norco" hydrocodone tablets for my chronic pain. They match the pill they're supposed to be, in terms of appearance and imprint code, exactly. They do seem a bit "powdery" though....any handling results in a little yellow binder powder on one's fingers.

Anyhow, they are noticeably weaker than the Mallinkart Pharm. generic 10/500 hydro's I've previously been prescribed -- or so it seems. It's hard to tell, objectively, because of my tolerance acquired by occasional use of sublingual poppy latex (from freshly cut stems and pods in my garden) as well as poppy tinctures with vodka/rum, and of course poppy tea. That was only perhaps 5 or 6 times per month at most for extreme pain, but I have to imagine that it has at least *some* bearing on how much weaker these Watson generic Norcos seem.

So. Rather than focusing just on the topic of weak Watson generic Norcos -- which I have dutifully performed Searches about here and elsewhere, having a few anecdotal reports to confirm this theory -- I would like to discuss the larger phenomenon of "weak generics" when it comes to opiate painkillers of any kind.

Since we know that in some cases, for one reason or another, one tablet labeled with a given milligram dose of hydrocodone, oxycodone, codeine, morphine etc. may not affect oneself exactly the same as another tablet, labeled with the same milligram dosage, made by another manufacturer or acquired through a different source.

In some cases, counterfeit pills are even passed off by online pharmacies (we obviously CANNOT discuss sources but I speak only of the general phenomenon) which contain as little as half or 1/3 of the claimed dose. I don't think this was the case here since my prescription comes from a local pharmacy.....but as I said, I'd like to discuss other cases, and try to develop a better general picture of when to expect what sort of variations between brands with the various pharmaceutical painkillers out there!

Please, share your own experiences and knowledge of this topic!
 
I have noticed I prefer watson to Mallinkart when it came to hydrcodone now some people tell me I'm crazy for thinking one may be better than the other but I guess I based it from past experiences which were 100's..
 
I prefer the Watsons to. I guess it's all in your head. Most generics are just as potent as name brand drugs.
 
I have heard that the FDA has stringent regulations to make generics the same strength within a couple of % as the retail brands. Everything about my "enlightened" (ie educated via internet) being tells me to believe this. HOWEVER, experience tells me otherwise. I don't know why it is, but geneic oxy's (tevas at least) are noticable less strong than perdue's. Generic dilaudids feel 25% weaker than their retail counterpart. I don't have any evidence for this other than experience, yet I know it to be true.

-zero
 
i've previously theorized that different binder formulations could affect absorption....are there really laws regarding potency? that would be good to know.
 
i've previously theorized that different binder formulations could affect absorption

Yep, different formulations of binders (which aren't specifically laid out, like the doses of active drugs contained) can slow the breakdown rate of tablets in the gut. If it breaks down more slowly, you'll get a lower peak plasma leve (hence the 'not as strong' observation), but what people don't seem to notice is that the milder effects are longer lasting
 
tsion said:
i've previously theorized that different binder formulations could affect absorption....are there really laws regarding potency? that would be good to know.
Yes, there are STRICT law regarding potency, however, the secondary "grey" market has been known to repackage large stocks, leading to some obvious discrepencies in what is "on the box" and what is printed on the pill - 100mgs become 50mgs. Rule of thumb: check the pills dosage is what is indicated on the box.

It's worth noting that there are efforts to reduce the liklihood of this happeneing, with some pharm companies (notably, J&J) only allowing direct trade (not through a middle-man wholesaler) with certain substances. It's been a while since I reviewed the literature on this, so forgive me if I can't recall the exact details.

Secondly, on the issue of binders and fillers, F&B is correct. It's also been suggested that what are generally considered to be inactive binders, have also been implicated in secondary allergic reactions. So where one brand will be fine and dandy, another may give some mild side-effects that 'detract' from the effect of the primary substance.
 
I cant imagine just a simple switch of binders could account for the obvious strength difference between perdue and teva oxys. They seriously feel 1/4 - 1/2 as strong. Is it simple binder changes or does it metabolize differently for some reason
 
some types of binders could not just slow absorption, but could decrease it also! there really should be some kind of database out there where people can compare brands of various medications in terms of potency and user reviews before they have to make medication choices. that would be EXTREMELY useful....
 
My psychiatrist demands that I get Barr brand generic d-amphetamine for my ADD. He said that many many patients that have received other brands have come back to him complaining that the generics did practically nothing compared to the brand name Dexedrine pills. With the Barr brand, he has never heard one complaint. So despite the strict FDA laws, as others have pointed out there does appear to be differences in generics.
 
not sure what my brand is but they are a generic of mscontin and they cost about 2/3rd the price...
they crush into a powder unlike the brand name mscontin... and they seem to hit harder if anything so here's one example of a generic being as strong or stronger due to different binders...
the mscontins brand name stuff are much more waxy....
 
I hear this argument all the time from working in a pharmacy. Not sure what the exact numbers are, but generics are allowed to be up to 5% different......maybe 3-5%.

I read a study where they found some generics to be closer to 100% pure than brand name.

Also, some brand name companies own the generic companies too, so it's basically the same thing.
 
I know there was a real big problem (even in pharms) for counterfeits finding their way in...
there was a story on dateline i think... about 2 yrs back...
I've seen some perfect counterfeits of steroids and such and not even the best eye(mine) could tell the difference..
they have gotten way to good at making perfect copies for anyone to tell.....
probably starting to be an issue with one of our main prescribed drugs hydrocodone.... and others...
not sure about this though...
 
Ive found that brand name and generic Benzos have the biggest difference in quality.....for some reason all benzos are highly affected by generic meds.......I only go with brand name if possible......
As for hydrocodone.......Watsons are the best no question!
 
About 6-7 years ago i ate a bunch of m357's (hydrocodone 5 mg) and felt very very weak effect. And this was not subjective at all! The same batch was determined weak from a few friends who obtained them from the same source.

And the source recieved these from a pharmacy. I'm sure of it.. very disappointing.

Anyways, this was at a time in my life that i had little opiate tolerance, and i pushed this up to 6-8 pills; still little to no effect. Back then, 20 mg of hydrocodne could get me off no problem. but not with those shit pills.

(wow, now i'd need over 100 mg of hydrocodne, i prefer 20 mg of fentanyl any day though, heh)
 
Fried Man said:
I hear this argument all the time from working in a pharmacy. Not sure what the exact numbers are, but generics are allowed to be up to 5% different......maybe 3-5%.

I read a study where they found some generics to be closer to 100% pure than brand name.

Also, some brand name companies own the generic companies too, so it's basically the same thing.

i've heard this back in the day from old timer's who dabble in pills. I guess according to them, generics are able to vary up to 15% in potency.

i don't remember the exact percentage it may be 5%, or something similar. Its been so long since i've fucked with these pharms.

I personally haven't noticed any difference in my methadose name brands and the generic's. Infact, sometimes i think i prefer generic methadone's.
 
due to changes in bioavailability, plus, the converse may also be true in some instances, ie some drugs appear 'stronger'

as f and b pointed out, the effects will last longer as there is still the same amount of drug in each pill, however, this is not always great because people (especially in pain relief) do require the same peak concentration as they were achieving with the non-generic brand.

if you are using them for pain relief talk to your pharmacist about possible bioavailability differences and how you can overcome these by modulating the dose.
 
Mallinckrodt hydrocodone pills, esp. the M361's are weak as hell and tend to make me more nauseated. Watsons are the best generic hydros I've had. One thing I've noticed, and this might only be me, but hydros or oxys with less tylenol give me less of a buzz. Watson's Lortabs (10/500) seem weaker than the Lorcet (10/650) The same for Percocet 10/650 vs Percocet 10/325. Whenever I come across OxyContin, I actually take some tylenol with them. Does anyone else experience that? I really think the tylenol (acetaminophen, APAP, whatever you want to call it) is synergistic with the opiate in the pill. So, to me, Watson 540's (Lortab) are weaker than Watson 503 (Lorcet).
 
Top