• Current Events & Politics
    Welcome Guest
    Please read before posting:
    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

CEPS Well Hung Parliament (CEPS Social/Off Topic)

it's "i get more pie in the end, if we grow a larger pie, and that pie grows faster if i don't take it all this minute"

Well put. However, the capitalist class often does not act coherently as a whole, as intra-capitalist competition and temporal short-sightedness can hamper their ability to influence (let alone fashion) political policy in terms of their shared, long-term interests. It seems that it's more during times of economic crises that capitalists succeed in such, I hypothesize on account of shared threats (both in terms of imperiling economic conditions and systemically destabilizing unrest from a proletariat who organizes for survival during crisis). However, this is not to say that there are any conditions to ensure that such systemically stabilizing responses be made--the shared need is there, but whether class-actors will rise to the challenge to cooperate is a matter of contingency.

ebola
 
Well, we have seen a variety of economies (and sub-economies) within a variety of major modes of production (some capitalist) where demand for finished products is rooted in luxury goods and services consumed by those elites who control the means of production and laboring process. One can look to colonial economies where local elites and metropolitan rulers consume at extremely elevated rates, employing numerous servants, etc. I would expect such configurations to be more unstable than economies tempered by Keynsian stimuli aimed at wide consumer-classes, as such stimuli tend to stave revolt, ideologically and materially.

ebola

Right, but without a population to develop these goods, there would be no luxury goods to consume. The wiping out of the labor force is what I'm attempting to debunk here.
 
Well put. However, the capitalist class often does not act coherently as a whole, as intra-capitalist competition and temporal short-sightedness can hamper their ability to influence (let alone fashion) political policy in terms of their shared, long-term interests.
w/o a doubt! 'Capitalist class' is really broad tho, and wrt that link, the IMF is about as high-up as you can possibly be in the global-economy pyramid*, so it does set the tone from the top-down in a big way, and i'm happy they(IMF) see it that way – not just because it's the way it is, but because of the influence they wield. I'm also aware they're not doing this for the welfare of humanity, or for our planet/environment, but solely because it's more profitable for their fund (I find it incomprehensible they do not care about their fellow man/planet, I just mean that their primary concern, as an organization, is the organization's financial well-being. I make this distinction because I think some see them solely as vampires lol)
(*there's no way to say who's 'highest' because at that level you have to consider governments as well and, obviously, many ppl are both 'gov' and 'private finance', so the overlap is considerable)

I should add that 'intra-capitalist competition and shortsightedness' are, in many (subjective) ways, better for humanity. Just because the IMF finds that decreasing inequality is better, does not mean that other long-term ambitions of a different, cohesive 'capitalist-elite class' would be seen by anyone outside that class as being good, I mean i'm sure we can all think of tons of examples of long-term cooperation by such classes that only benefit them, to the detriment of society-at-large (I feel it's important to note that if, somehow, we could entirely detangle government / business 100%, almost none of that would matter; it mainly hurts society when private business interests can corrupt government, in many cases to the point where the actors swap between those sides regularly)





It seems that it's more during times of economic crises that capitalists succeed in such, I hypothesize on account of shared threats (both in terms of imperiling economic conditions and systemically destabilizing unrest from a proletariat who organizes for survival during crisis).
I'm interested in hearing more from you on this, I mean I can think of so many examples either way and haven't noticed any correlation (it may be hard, as 'capitalists' could be russian gangsters pwning the former ussr after communism died – preserving their long-term during a crisis, or the american financing industry sabotaging itself during our housing crisis [although some groups, those w/ government-favors, actually did secure their long-term survival- there are a couple banking outfits that have gotten stronger through several financial disasters, through political influences of course])
 
Right, but without a population to develop these goods, there would be no luxury goods to consume. The wiping out of the labor force is what I'm attempting to debunk here.
mostly true; luxury goods will always exist, given they're just "highest-tier commodities/services", but your point is valid: the quality/level of what is considered "luxury" would drop in relation to drops in any major factor of global production (whether labor or raw materials)
/a better gulfstream > a better mercedes
 
Connect these two concepts. When you say these "non-elites" are using resources, you mean that they're buying these resources. What are the "elites" (ruling class) going to do with the Earth's resources without a huge population to extract, process, manufacture, distribute and most importantly, buy them? They would be useless materials. A vast population in itself is a very important resource, labor. It's probably the most important resource available as it is required to extract, to process, to manufacture, to distribute and to buy.

The ruling class is the ruling class because the rest of us make it possible. The shrugging Atlas concept is nonsense, really.

Yes, very, very good point, but I know exactly what they will do. They will use a variety of machines and robots to extract the resources necessary if they choose to go this route. They already have constructed a vast network of tunnels that stretches thousands and thousands of miles underground to hide in if any sort of apocalypse man made or otherwise threatens them. This could hypothetically enable them to extract the resources necessary for hundreds of generations of millionaires to live lavish lives underground after they destroy the world above with nuclear devices. Granted I'm not saying it will happen, just that it's possible. Some of these tunnels are up to 10 miles underground and they have created them with advanced boring technology 50 years ahead of our time. Just look up "project subterrene" for all the information necessary
 
Bardeaux said:
Right, but without a population to develop these goods, there would be no luxury goods to consume.

My hypothetical schematic of these 'luxury based economies' is that the wider proletariat receives material wealth near subsistence, let's say slightly better than the current Chinese working class. Their raw material needs may be administered cheaply enough for the vast majority of production to be oriented toward elite consumption (and supporting infrastructure and capital goods) (most of this consumption being highly conspicuous, and including much waste, just by nature of rife status-competitions won mostly by consuming the most). Depending on technical needs and conditions of class-struggle (or a lack thereof), a middle-class of professionals, technicians, cultural producers, etc. might develop.

ebola
 
Yes, very, very good point, but I know exactly what they will do. They will use a variety of machines and robots to extract the resources necessary if they choose to go this route. They already have constructed a vast network of tunnels that stretches thousands and thousands of miles underground to hide in if any sort of apocalypse man made or otherwise threatens them. This could hypothetically enable them to extract the resources necessary for hundreds of generations of millionaires to live lavish lives underground after they destroy the world above with nuclear devices. Granted I'm not saying it will happen, just that it's possible. Some of these tunnels are up to 10 miles underground and they have created them with advanced boring technology 50 years ahead of our time. Just look up "project subterrene" for all the information necessary
i don't doubt ppl w/ more money, do more extensive 'survivalist' setups, but nobody who does that type of prep prefers to use it (otherwise, why would it even matter whether the disaster occured? nothing's stopping anyone from moving into their bunkers/tunnels right now)
and as far as machines/robots, those can replace human labor a lot but they don't make human labor worthless. I cannot help but think of the humans working the robot factory in Elysium.
 
Depending on technical needs and conditions of class-struggle (or a lack thereof), a middle-class of professionals, technicians, cultural producers, etc. might develop.

ebola
and this is a significant factor in why it's better for the upper class to remain ahead, but not too far ahead. If, at the extreme, one man could control the entire planet's population, this man has more to gain (economically) by having a planet of classes beneath him (including specialists), not a population of solely slaves.
 
Surprised there is no thread on the Oscar Pistorius trial in here

Well it's official.. He got away with murder and was only convicted with 'culpable homicide', which is essentially the same thing as manslaughter

Now he will only serve a maximum of 15 years in prison... and will probably serve much less than that due to 'good behavior'. I still can't believe they let him off with such a light punishment
 
On a scale of STAND to RAND how much do you STAND WITH RAND?

Rand_Paul,_official_portrait,_112th_Congress_alternate.jpg
 
So mods are allowed to have alts. That is some BS if you ask me.

Clean IP check, with patterns in access consistent with the IP being assigned by a consumer-ISP.
Regardless, the OP belongs in our aggregated social thread.

ebola
 
If you can link that Id like to read in what context and to what purpose he referring to. If he was talling about sending a few over to congress I with him..

Eh, he says someone holding up a liquor store is enough to shoot missiles at citizens via drone technology.



This was literally a month after his filibuster, I think. Like his father, there are certain social policies of his I can get on board with. We're just too opposite on everything else for me to ever consider voting for him.
 
Top