CD Social v. Stoned apes in orbit

[thujone]

I used to smoke cannabis. I still do, but I used to, too.Hey everyone. Just read through 25 pages of this thread. Stopping by to say hello!

hey, welcome

thujone, I've got vanilla cigarillos, I'm gonna try to roll one with hash soon, thanx for the tip.

Papers, Rizla Micron short model, as I make short joints, more akin to sticks really.

watch how you cut and roll it, the rillos can be fickle because the leaf is so small and will likely need to moisten it to keep from cracking but yeah you can roll great sticks with a bit of care.

Rizla aren't available where I live, when I was in the UK it seemed like every single store I went in was selling them though. I didn't find them too bad, but I was happier once I found a store selling OCB.

I never really got into blunts. I roll one from time to time but I tend to find they don't taste as good as joints and are harsher as well. I put a little tobacco in my joints any way so I get a nicotine buzz regardless.

yeah rolling some batch in solves the annoyances that pure-herb joints have (canoeing, having to relight) but i find cheap cigarette tobacco borks the herb taste and high-quality pipe baccy overwhelms. i don't mind cheap wrap tobacco for blunts but authentic leaf (i.e. not Backwoods) has a great taste that mingles nicely with the bouquet of herb. heehee, look at me talking like such a connoisseur. i might just have to roll a good blunt today and take a stroll around the neighbourhood enjoying it.

 

[umfree14]

mmm prescribed kpin 6mg, herb, phenibut. its nice out here in NE PA, weather wise today. feelin good. anxiety in check. shout out to everyone, hope you all are doing well.

 

[DrGreenthumb]

haven't looked at papers or even been in a head shop in a while but yeah as long as the paper is long enough to stuff and handle properly i would be satisfied. with normal zig-zag papes it always was difficult to get it the right tightness, rolling it was like trying to catch a mouse in satin sheets.

tbh i much prefered cigarillo blunts to joints. a nice rillo pinner is a joy to smoke. it keeps its cherry from foot to nub, burns down evenly every time, tastes delicious and offers just a touch of nicotine kick too.

I think the zig-zag papers in the UK are probably different to yours. Here they're just a cheaper alternative to Rizla & virtually the same, but with a bit more gum. There's hardly any difference between silver zig-zags & silver rizla, but king size rizla are 2 packs for £1 & king size zig-zag are 3 for £1. Main problem is zig-zag don't include any card for tips & they glue the packet together so less tips possible from that.

Papers are papers, as long as they're not too thick, too soft, don't tear to easily & stick, then they're fine, so that's almost any popular rolling paper sold in the UK for 20 years.

TBH it's only recently that Americans learned to roll joints, I saw some horrific attempts. It was hard to even buy any papers at all 20 years ago when I visited.

 

[w01fg4ng]

TBH it's only recently that Americans learned to roll joints, I saw some horrific attempts. It was hard to even buy any papers at all 20 years ago when I visited.

The main reason why spliffs have been more popular in Europe than America is because of tobacco. Tobacco IS the reason Europeans know how to roll so well, it's not really so much about pot IMO.

Americans don't generally put tobacco in joints like Europeans do. Americans DO roll their own cigarettes though, and rather well.

20 years ago I was rolling my own cigarettes. If you couldn't find rolling papers in the States 20 years ago, I'm putting that blame on you.

 

[DrGreenthumb]

It's possible to roll a joint that doesn't fall apart without any tobacco, there's no excuse. Bad papers isn't a real excuse either. I've heard this about tobacco being essential for a good joint before, it's total nonsense & if you believed it then you could add tobacco, being American doesn't stop you, but the best joints are good pure weed.

It's the card tip that is the vital part (as well as good weed), as Jib became the first American to discover. It's good to see there's progress. Hopefully next you'll start making other things properly in America.

It was just one state & a particularly backwards one... Florida. I think there was some law that said papers could only be sold with rolling tobacco, but I never even saw any rolling tobacco, it was just Camel, Marlboro & chewing tobacco.

UK cigarette tobacco is usually milder tasting than American cigarettes & only a small amount would be used so it doesn't overwhelm the herb. A bit of tobacco can help it to burn a bit better, but if the weed is properly cured & the joint properly rolled then it's not needed at all. Obviously tobacco is bad & the last thing you need is addictive joints.

 

[PotatoMan]

pretty blazed. think i gotta drop my weed budget. back to smokin' reg :D8)

 

[w01fg4ng]

A bit of tobacco can help it to burn a bit better

This is why I don't roll much anymore. I quit tobacco about 8 years ago...I lost track at this point.





Whoever says they don't feel anything off GABA supplements are doing it wrong.

 

[drug_mentor]

yeah rolling some batch in solves the annoyances that pure-herb joints have (canoeing, having to relight) but i find cheap cigarette tobacco borks the herb taste and high-quality pipe baccy overwhelms. i don't mind cheap wrap tobacco for blunts but authentic leaf (i.e. not Backwoods) has a great taste that mingles nicely with the bouquet of herb. heehee, look at me talking like such a connoisseur. i might just have to roll a good blunt today and take a stroll around the neighbourhood enjoying it.

Never heard tobacco called batch, that is interesting. Over here a lot of people refer to it as spin, but I tend to just call it tobacco, baccy or ciggie. I can't stand using rolling tobacco in joints, which is funny because I actually used to prefer it. Now I just rip open cigarettes and use the tobacco from them to roll with. I avoid cheap brand cigarettes because they taste shitter, and they also seem to have a lot of woody bits in them, by the time you pick all that shite out you aren't even saving money compared to buying decent cigs to mix.

Most blunts I have smoked have been rolled with blunt wraps, all tobacco is super expensive in Australia, but particularly cigars. It is ridiculously cost prohibitive to buy actual cigars to gut and then re roll a blunt with on a regular basis. Add the fact that we don't commonly get any of the brands which are traditionally used for rolling blunts over here and it really makes things difficult. I got my hands on White Owls a few times, but they had a tendency to be dry and weren't the easiest to work with. I will say I do prefer it with a gutted cigar shell than with using those artificial wraps. I have had a roll of "Brown Sugar" blunt wraps for a couple years now and only used them like 3 times.

The main reason why spliffs have been more popular in Europe than America is because of tobacco. Tobacco IS the reason Europeans know how to roll so well, it's not really so much about pot IMO.

Americans don't generally put tobacco in joints like Europeans do. Americans DO roll their own cigarettes though, and rather well.

20 years ago I was rolling my own cigarettes. If you couldn't find rolling papers in the States 20 years ago, I'm putting that blame on you.

You know whats funny, all over the internet I read about how Americans hate mixing weed with tobacco. I was in Europe for a few months in 2012, I smoked a lot of weed with a lot of people in different cities. The people I tended to smoke with were other travelers who I met at hostels I was staying at, and joints were by far the most common method due to the fact we were all backpackers and not looking to cross borders with glass or resort to homemade bullshit.

I can't count how many Americans I smoked with and every single one of them would add tobacco to a joint. I don't just mean they would hit other peoples joints with tobacco in them, they would roll spliffs with tobacco, even in situations where everyone was rolling their own joint and it clearly wasn't anything to do with the etiquette of sharing with people who might prefer tobacco. I queried a good number of them about this and they all told me that adding tobacco to joints was not uncommon in the US at all. They said it was less ubiquitous than it is in other countries, but most people who are short on weed would definitely add tobacco to a joint to spin it out. They also told me that most Americans who had traveled tended to adopt the European way of rolling (using a crutch, mixing tobacco, king size instead of 1 1/4 size papers, etc.) because it is superior.

These people came from all over the US, but mostly I recall smoking with people from all over California, Seattle, Philadelphia, New Jersey and NYC. I just found it really interesting because my experience and what they told me really contradicts what I read online and have seen on US based cannabis documentaries. I also smoked with a good number of Canadians who told me that mixing weed with tobacco was really quite common there, and that they even did this to smoke through bongs. I thought Australians and Brits were the only ones who smoked weed mixed with tobacco through bongs but there you go.

 

[DrGreenthumb]

This is why I don't roll much anymore. I quit tobacco about 8 years ago...I lost track at this point.





Whoever says they don't feel anything off GABA supplements are doing it wrong.

I quit tobacco too, but it's really not needed for rolling a joint, joints are better without any tobacco in. As long as the weed isn't too wet or anything then it'll burn no problem. I quit smoking & just use a vaporizer for weed though now.

Putting tobacco in joints seems to make it a lot harder to quit either weed or tobacco. Once I was used to putting tobacco in a joint I'd get a really bad nicotine craving if I had a joint without any tobacco in if I hadn't had a cigarette, it's taken time for me to beat that. Addiction is the main reason people put tobacco in joints, helping it to burn or whatever are just excuses.

Hash joints need some tobacco or weed, so I guess that's the reason Europeans started using tobacco in joints, because historically hash was more available than weed in Europe, but that has changed over the last 20 years, just the old habits have been hard to give up & have been passed on to younger generations.

The cardboard at the end is the vital part that makes the joint stronger, along with the cone shape, but these concepts seem as alien as putting good suspension on a car to Americans.

GABA can't cross the blood brain barrier so it can't possibly do anything, I guess you need a big helping of placebo effect to not do it wrong.

 

[drug_mentor]

I honestly haven't rolled enough green joints since my rolling skills really got respectable to say whether it makes a difference or not. I know when I used to buy commercial weed which was not always dried properly and was often treated with PGR's making it super dense, tobacco was pretty much necessary for joints to stay burning on many occasions. Now I only smoke homegrown I am pretty sure I could twist up a joint of straight green and it would smoke fine.

I must say though, whenever you see people smoking straight green joints there does seem to be a tendency for them to canoe that just doesn't happen with a well rolled spliff.

I only smoke 1 or 2 joints most days, and I quit smoking cigarettes a couple of years ago. I fully admit that part of my motivation for continuing to mix is that I don't want to go through tobacco withdrawals, but apart from that I just find it a lot less harsh to smoke, and I also like rolling larger joints.

 

[DrGreenthumb]

Canoeing is usually due to bad rolling or bad weed, a crease in the paper or a big lump of uncured damp bud will do it. It can happen with tobacco mixed joints too, especially if it's not an even mix. You can prevent it by refusing to buy bad weed & learning how to roll a joint. If you roll it backwards then you'll just get one layer of paper so there can't be some hidden crease & it'll burn evenly.

By rolling backwards, I mean fold the paper the opposite way to how it comes in the packet & roll with the gum on the side of the paper facing you, so you're tucking the gum in when you roll & then lick the outside of the joint, so you're licking the gum through a layer of paper, then rip off the excess paper. There's only one layer of paper so you can't get any problems with creases, it'll burn more evenly & you're smoking less paper.

As long as your weed isn't wet, some nasty hard compressed brickweed or hash then it'll burn fine without any tobacco. Problem is it's just as addictive as smoking tobacco without weed, so you'll crave joints with tobacco in if you get used to it & then if you try smoking a pure weed joint it'll make you crave tobacco, especially if you're trying to give tobacco up.

If you only smoke 1 or 2 joints most days then it's still enough to be addicted to tobacco, but the withdrawals aren't going to be so bad & it's probably the tobacco that keeps you smoking joints every day. You might as well just get a vaporizer & stop smoking. You could get used to smoking pure joints, they shouldn't be too harsh if it's homegrown cured bud & tolerance will allow you to smoke bigger joints, but you might as well just start vaping instead if you want to change your habit. I found vaping didn't make me crave tobacco like switching to pure joints would, because it's a different device & I didn't associate it with nicotine.

I've only managed to give up nicotine in the last couple of months, it took about 9 months for me to do it, going from smoking rolling tobacco in cigarettes & joints (about 5 joints & 5 cigarettes a day, or 10 joints), to e-cig & joints, e-cig & weed vaporizer, then just weed vaporizer.

Before if I ever tried to stop smoking cigarettes without stopping putting tobacco in my joints then I'd smoke twice as many joints a day. If I stopped smoking cigarettes & smoked pure joints then the joints would make the tobacco cravings much worse for me because I associated joints with tobacco.

I don't want to encourage anybody to start putting tobacco in joints if they smoke their weed without tobacco, because it's a hard habit to give up & obviously unhealthy. It's unnecessary if you have access to good weed too. Even if you already smoke tobacco separately to weed, don't start mixing it or it'll be harder to give up tobacco.

 

[drug_mentor]

I don't buy weed ever brother and a couple blokes who have been smoking every day for ten years told me my last batch is the best they ever tried, so quality is most definitely not an issue. I roll at least one joint a day, I think my skills are okay. It is pretty rare that I twist up something I am unhappy with, and in several circles if a joint is getting rolled I am the guy who gets handed the weed and the papers.

I am aware what causes canoeing in general, I was merely saying that it seems like straight green joints have more of a tendency to canoe for some reason. I did also say this was more from observation than experience, as I don't roll green ever. Whenever you see videos of rappers and other people smoking straight green joints that shit just always seems to canoe, and one would assume rappers who smoke a fuck tonne have decent rolling skills. Some of the Americans who I mentioned in my last post cited better burning/lack of canoeing as an advantage of mixing with tobacco, and several of them were from Washington and California, so I don't think weed quality was their problem!

I am familiar with back rolling, I got quite good at it whilst I was in Holland, and I agree that it is a superior smoke. If I hit lots of joints in a day back rolling really reduces the tendency for my throat to get sore, and generally speaking they burn slower. One thing that turned me off back rolling is I always seem instinctively to tap it down as much as I would a regular roll, and often this will make it burn a touch slower than I would like. I fully confess this is user error, but between that and the extra effort involved, I rarely ever roll backwards. Not to mention I have become a big fan of smoking king L's lately, and rolling that backwards would be a chore!

I have been addicted to nicotine since I was 14 or 15, it is no big deal really. I never struggled with cigarettes like a lot of people, always had more of a tendency to only have a handful in a day as opposed to a pack. I always found the longer you can delay having the first one the less bad your cravings will be. I no longer crave nicotine/tobacco at all, but I know I am still addicted. My addiction is minor enough that half a cigarette worth of tobacco in a joint per day is enough to keep withdrawals at bay, but I know if I skipped smoking for a day I would be pretty cranky when I woke up!

The problem with pure weed (joints or otherwise) for me is it really makes me cough a lot. This is not ideal for a couple of reasons. First is I live with my sister and I try and keep my smoking on the down low, if I was out the back coughing non stop for 20 minutes every night it would kind of give the gig away. Aside from that, I am always drinking beer when I smoke, and when I hammer down beers quickly and am feeling a touch bloated, heavy coughing fits make me prone to throwing up. For now I am sticking with my spliffs.

I have been meaning to get a vape for ages but where I live they are crazy expensive, without getting specific a volcano here is the better part of a fucking grand. As an alcoholic University student I just don't have the money. Aside from that, I tried a vape for the first time a month or so ago, and I found the high to be less sedating. I like to smoke before bed and I am really not sure the vaporizer buzz is suited for my purposes.

 

[DrGreenthumb]

It seems THC itself can be a bit irritating to the throat, so if you smoke something stronger than usual (because it's not 50% tobacco) it might make you cough a bit, but you soon get a tolerance to it & not smoking tobacco will have you coughing less in general.

Vaporising is easier, but it could still make you cough a little until you get used to it. Once you adapt to the higher THC then it shouldn't make you cough at all & there's no persistent smoker's cough.

There are plenty of cheaper vaporizers that still do a good job & Volcanoes aren't even the best now. I think the Storz & Bickel Plenty is better & it's significantly cheaper, but still seems to have the same great build quality, it seems to be made to last, so over 10 years use or something it's not so expensive. 10 years ago the Volcano was the only decent option, but there's some serious competition now, even from the same company that made the Volcano. Vaporising seems to be twice as effective as smoking too, as well as healthier, if you grow your own then saving weed might not seem so important, but there's still a cost to it & you're wasting THC when you burn it. There are cheap portable vaporizers too now, the Chinese e-cig companies have managed to make some decent well priced vaporizers. Check out the Hebe Titan 2, it's cheap enough for an alcoholic student to not care if they break or lose it, there's a bit of a rubbery taste at first but it burns off.

Vaporising doesn't create such a stink, it's a better hit, it's healthier, there's no tobacco, once you're used to it you'll be coughing much less & breathing easier.

It can be less sedating, but switching to vaporising isn't likely to cause insomnia or anything, if you're tired then it'll still make you sleepy, but it's a better high for getting stuff done during the day. If you're not tired then it's a more energetic, trippier & more intense high.

You can get that sedating effect from cooking with your vaped bud & you can get high twice from the some bud. Vaped bud in a hot chocolate drink is going to put you to sleep.

Tobacco addiction makes people make excuses to justify it, as long as the weed isn't terrible it'll burn fine in a pure weed joint. European style joints burn better, but it's not all about tobacco at all, it's more about the size, cone shape, more consistent roll & the card tip. If you roll some little baggy joint with a lump in the middle, creased badly stuck papers & no tip then it's not going to burn well.

If you roll a good joint with good properly dried/cured weed it'll burn perfectly. I'm pretty sure that Europeans adding tobacco to joints is just a bad habit leftover from when you could only buy good hash (from Morocco, Lebanon, Pakistan, India, Nepal, etc) or terrible seedy African brick weed here, obviously it's impossible to roll a pure hash joint. Now good quality locally grown indoor bud is all that's available so there's no real excuse for it.

So, anyway, Americans, copy every detail of how Europeans roll joints, just don't put tobacco in. If you're already putting tobacco in then it'll be hard to switch to pure joints, but it's definitely not the tobacco that makes European style joints better, it's more about taking more care over how you roll it, the cone shape & the card roach.

 

[w01fg4ng]

I can't count how many Americans I smoked with and every single one of them would add tobacco to a joint.

<------ This American was converted after only one week in the Netherlands.

I also smoked with a good number of Canadians who told me that mixing weed with tobacco was really quite common there, and that they even did this to smoke through bongs. I thought Australians and Brits were the only ones who smoked weed mixed with tobacco through bongs but there you go.

When I was 16 and I was out of pot I would put a tobacco and eucalyptus leaf mix in my bong and get high. I don't do that anymore though lol.

The cardboard at the end is the vital part that makes the joint stronger, along with the cone shape, but these concepts seem as alien as putting good suspension on a car to Americans.

Come visit a legal state and buy yourself an American spliff at a recreational store. They are EXACTLY like the European spliffs but without the tobacco. The times they are a changin

GABA can't cross the blood brain barrier so it can't possibly do anything, I guess you need a big helping of placebo effect to not do it wrong.

My experiences speak louder than your words.

 

[drug_mentor]

I appreciate the advice on the vapes dude, but I honestly don't see myself getting one any time soon. Maybe if my financial situation improves.

I do smoke to help me sleep and I don't see a vape being great for that issue. When I took a few hits a while back it was really energetic, granted it was a sativa dominant hybrid, but I have a lot of experience smoking that strain and it was never so cerebral as when I vaped it. I had the vape on the highest setting too, which I know is supposed to make it more sedating.

I don't care too much about conserving weed to be honest, since I am not a dealer I already tend to end up throwing buds in with the trim so I can yield more hash. If I wanted to be conservative I would smoke glass instead of papers.

What you say about joints is plausible, but I am not entirely convinced to be honest. A lot of the people I was talking about emulate Euro style rolling in every way apart from the tobacco and still seem to get canoes going on, perhaps it is just their skills though.

I am like the mildest tobacco addict you can imagine, I quit cigarettes several years ago and have no desire to smoke them 99.999999% of the time, despite ALWAYS having a pack on hand for when I want to roll a joint. I usually only smoke tobacco once a day (in a spliff), late at night, and on days where I wait a few hours later than usual I don't even get cravings. I am not justifying anything, I rolled a few green joints a year or so ago and they made me cough my guts up, I didn't enjoy it. Since I smoke weed for enjoyment, I decided to continue smoking it in a way that I enjoy. I realise that I would probably get used to smoking it green in a relatively short space of time, it doesn't mean I feel like spending a few weeks where my favourite hobby is impossible for me to enjoy...

Funnily enough, weed isn't harsh on my throat. It is the top of my lungs that it really irritates, seemingly right where the airway meets the lungs. A couple doctors diagnosed me as asthmatic years ago. Asthma would be consistent with where I get this irritation, but asthma pumps don't seem to help. It is funny, because of this I find weed to be less harsh the deeper I breathe it in. When I was used to bongs, I could take a huge rip, but a moderate drag off a spliff would have me choking.

Tobacco and eucalyptus is an odd mix for sure wolfgang, not sure I would be game to try it, but I suppose we all did similar things in our youth.

As an American who converted to using tobacco in Amsterdam, and now lives in a place where you can purchase tobaccoless spliffs, where do you stand on the issue of straight green joints having a tendency to run. Do you believe this is a matter of roller error or something which omitting tobacco has a tendency to cause?

 

[Jibult]

lol @ canoe

I've never actually heard anyone use the word this way. We call it "running" instead of "canoeing."



Straight green joints run a bit, in my experience. Typically for the first quarter/first half of the joint. Once you hit that midway point the canoe/run tends to even itself out and then the second half of the joint burns at least twice as long as the first half.


It's fuckin' weird how that happens.




Also, reading through you guys' conversation has rekindled my desire to start growing weed. Thanks for that, I think....

Come visit a legal state and buy yourself an American spliff at a recreational store. They are EXACTLY like the European spliffs but without the tobacco. The times they are a changin

You know, the pre-rolled joints were suspect to me when I was in Seattle. They were cheaper than packaged grams. The price discrepancy made no sense to me. I figured if anything, a 1g pre-rolled joint would be more expensive than the 1g used to roll the joint, but nope, in every case the joints were cheaper.

Made me start thinking it wasn't just cannabis in there. I didn't ask about it, though, which I probably should have....

 

[PotatoMan]

yeah I met this canadian chick who called it "canoeing" then on the elements' pack says "avoids runs" or something so. /:

here we call it "bad burning"

it goes "eh lick dong dah bad burn dey nah". :D

we use spit on the "run" to correct the burn.

 

[Jibult]

here we call it "bad burning"

it goes "eh lick dong dah bad burn dey nah". :D

we use spit on the "run" to correct the burn.

lol, no confusion with "bad burning," I like it.


Blank, do you have an accent? I mean, like, to an American, when you talk would the American think you've got an accent?

idk why but I always thought of you as a pretty American guy that just happens to not live in the country. Never expected you to have any kind of accent or anything. (No offense! I know that comment's got a chance to piss off probably half of the rest of the world, so yeah, no offense intended here)

 

[drug_mentor]

lol @ canoe

I've never actually heard anyone use the word this way. We call it "running" instead of "canoeing."



Straight green joints run a bit, in my experience. Typically for the first quarter/first half of the joint. Once you hit that midway point the canoe/run tends to even itself out and then the second half of the joint burns at least twice as long as the first half.


It's fuckin' weird how that happens.




Also, reading through you guys' conversation has rekindled my desire to start growing weed. Thanks for that, I think....







You know, the pre-rolled joints were suspect to me when I was in Seattle. They were cheaper than packaged grams. The price discrepancy made no sense to me. I figured if anything, a 1g pre-rolled joint would be more expensive than the 1g used to roll the joint, but nope, in every case the joints were cheaper.

Made me start thinking it wasn't just cannabis in there. I didn't ask about it, though, which I probably should have....

In regards to growing mate just do it, and don't fucking look back. It can be a struggle at first, a bit expensive to set up, and the first few problems you encounter you will over react to if you are anything like me, after that it is smooth sailing. You gotta pop a few beans to find fire, but being so close to DC which just legalised maybe you can get access to some sweet cuts and avoid the pheno hunting game all together. It feels good to have more weed than you need, which cost you fuck all, didn't fatten the pockets of any shady individuals and contains nothing that you didn't intentionally fucking put in it. It is a little bit like picking magic mushrooms, once you figure out how to do it you realise just how badly you have been getting fucked.

The reason that I heard pre rolls were so cheap is that they roll them with basically the shake out of the bottom of the jar. There is nothing wrong with the weed, but it isn't nice buds and I suppose the dispensaries figure they would have a harder time selling a gram of shake than selling a pre roll to a novice who doesn't know their way around some skins.

 

[PotatoMan]

lol, no confusion with "bad burning," I like it.


Blank, do you have an accent? I mean, like, to an American, when you talk would the American think you've got an accent?

idk why but I always thought of you as a pretty American guy that just happens to not live in the country. Never expected you to have any kind of accent or anything. (No offense! I know that comment's got a chance to piss off probably half of the rest of the world, so yeah, no offense intended here)

yeah bro i have a full on accent to you guys.

check this vid out if you wanna hear what we sound like, however just like in england there are the "proper accents" and the "common accents", i tend to speak properly but with my distinct accent.

i've never seen this video but i'll assume it'll give you an idea of how we speak.