Cat's Claw - MAO-B Inhibitor

[mitragyna]

I just read a study on Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa) which proved it to be a rather powerful MAO-B Inhibitor. This was a bit suprising to me, as I never knew this. I am also on Nardil (Phenelzine), an irreversible MAO-A and MAO-B inhibitor.

My question is: Is Cat's Claw a powerful enough MAOI to have an interaction with my medication (Nardil)?

I know this is kind of a shot in the dark, but I'm hoping someone here may have some info on this matter...

Here is the study I read:

Inhibition of monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B) by Chinese herbal medicines.
Lin RD, Hou WC, Yen KY, Lee MH.

Department of Internal Medicine, Municipal Taipei Ho-Ping Hospital, Taiwan.

Monoamine oxidase (MAO) catalyzes the oxidative deamination of biogenic amines accompaned by the release of H2O2. Two subtypes, MAO-A and MAO-B, exist on the basis of their specificities to substrates and inhibitors. The regulation of MAO-B activity is important in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases. Twenty-seven species of plants used in traditional Chinese medicines, selected from an enthnobotanical survey, were used in an investigation of their inhibitory effect on MAO-B in rat brain homogenates. The 50% aqueous methanol extracts of four active extracts, Arisaema amurense, Lilium brownii var. colchesteri, Lycium chinense, and Uncaria rhynchophylla, exhibited the best activity and selectivity towards MAO-B with IC50 values of 0.44, 0.29, 0.40, and 0.03 mg/ml, respectively. A kinetic study of MAO-B inhibition by the four extracts using the Lineweaver-Burk plot for each active extract revealed the IC50 concentrations, and results show that: Ki = 0.59 mg/ml for A. amurense for the mixed-type mode, Ki = 0.58 mg/ml for L. brownii var. colchesteri for the mixed-type mode, Ki = 5.01 mg/ml for L. chinense for the uncompetitive mode, and Ki = 0.02 mg/ml for U. rhynchophylla for the uncompetitive mode. These may therefore be candidates for use in delaying the progressive degeneration caused by neurological diseases.

Here's another one I found:

Monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B) inhibition by active principles from Uncaria rhynchophylla.
Hou WC, Lin RD, Chen CT, Lee MH.

Graduate Institute of Pharmacognosy, Taipei Medical University, 250 Wu-Hsing Street, Taipei 110, Taiwan.

Attenuation of monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B) activity may provide protection against oxidative neurodegeneration. For this reason, inhibition of MAO-B activity is used as part of the treatment of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's patients. The hook of Uncaria rhynchophylla (Miq.) Jacks. (Rubiaceae) is a traditional Chinese herbal drug that is generally used to treat convulsive disorders. In this study, the fractionation and purification of Uncaria rhynchophylla extracts using a bioguided assay isolated two known compounds, (+)-catechin and (-)-epicatechin. The compounds inhibited MAO-B, as measured by an assay of rat brain MAO-B separated by electrophoresis on a 7.5% native polyacrylamide gel. The IC(50) values of (+)-catechin and (-)-epicatechin were 88.6 and 58.9 microM, respectively, and inhibition occurred in a dose-dependent manner, as measured by the fluorescence method. The Lineweaver-Burk plot revealed K(i) values for (+)-catechin and (-)-epicatechin of 74 and 21 microM, respectively. This suggests that these two compounds, isolated here for the first time from Uncaria rhynchophylla, might be able to protect against neurodegeneration in vitro, and, therefore, the molecular mechanism deserves further study. This finding may also increase interest in the health benefits of Uncaria rhynchophylla.

 

[The Monkey Mantra]

Well, catechin and epicatechin are nothin' unusual. They're antioxidants found in green tea and a whole buncha other stuff. I didn't know they were MAO inhibitors, though. Neat!

 

[Tsukasa]

^ Yea, that's a surprise. All i knew about them was they are potent anti-oxidants and are decarboxylase inhibitors which prevent l-dopa from being wastefully converted to dopamine by pyridoxine before it reaches the BBB where you want it.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jf000026+?cookieSet=1

 

[Hammilton]

The problem is the levels in the plants aren't usefully high AFAICT. Extracts could be really useful.

MAO-B inhibitors are what you want when adding MAOIs to stimulants. MAO-A is equally capable of chewing up dopamine and serotinin / NE, B is limited though. I think this is probably why most have had no problem with Selegiline + PEA but mitragyna had serious issues after switching to Nardil. Not sure if anyone else tried this.

 

[Gormur]

I occasionally take a supplement with cat's claw (and a host of other herbs etc). Mainly on days off my adderall, since it gives me just enough stamina to function a day or two.. Dosing the supplement and adderall on the same day, even if there's say an 8-10hr gap between dosing, it has never ended well.. Usually i'd get migraines, blurry vision, clouded thinking, hyper-stimulation and paresthesia. At best i'd get really tired after dosing the adderall, sometimes falling asleep immediately

On its own the supplement seems good. Combined with amphetamines, it's like what i imagine ingesting a shitload of MSG or aspartame + amphetamine feels like... a chemical lobotomy

Here are the ingredients of the specific cat's claw-containing supp i take:

Supplement Facts:

Serving size: 1 capsule

Servings per container: 120



Each capsule contains:



Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine HCI) 9 mg
Biotin 1 mg
Magnesium (as magnesium glycinate) 24 mg
Zinc (as zinc arginate) 3 mg
Manganese (as manganese amino acids chelate) 5.4 mg
Chromium (as chromium picolinate) 42 mcg
Molybdenum (as molybdenum amino acid chelate) 1 mg
L-Glutamine 40 mg
Asparagus racemosus 40 mg
Inulin 35 mg
Cat's Claw (vine) 30 mg
Licorice (root) 30 mg
F.O.S. 25 mg
Colostrum (bovine) 25 mg
N-Acetyl L-Cysteine 25 mg
L-Glutathione 25 mg
L-Cysteine 25 mg
Borage seed extract 20 mg
Flax seed extract 18 mg
Brown Rice powder 18 mg
Choline (as choline bitartrate) 9 mg
Quercetin 5 mg



Proprietary blend: 86 mg of Ashwagandha (root), Capsicum powder, Protease II, Bromelain, Amylase, Cellulase, Peptidase, Lipase, Lactase, Maltase, Sucrase.



Other ingredients: Gelatin (capsule), rice flour.



Suggested use: Take 1 capsule 3 times a day, 15 minutes before meals, or as directed by your healthcare practitioner.

I suspect there are at least a few other MAOIs listed here, incl quercetin and licorice root of course... Maybe ashwaghanda as well.. Hopefully someone here knows something i don't and can shed some light on these. As for L-Glutamine, i'm basically convinced that it either does nothing or is simply an excitotoxin, which would explain the migraines..

 

[sekio]

An IC50 of 50-90 uM means this is a crap compound to be using as a MAOI. You'd have to take hundreds of grams of extracts to get effects. Just like most other herbal MAOI's.

The supplement you have seems to em to be nothing more than an excessive blend of minerals you probably don't need (manganese, molybdenum, and chromium? Do you not eat food that grows in the dirt?), essentially inactive small amounts of protien (a chicken sandwich will dwarf a handfuul of supplement capsules in terms of total protein) and tiny doses of herbal extracts. And do remember that while certain amino acids are indeed excitotoxic, that's when you inject them in huge concentrations into your brain. You actually need a whole spectrum of amino acids to live.

If you think ingestion of glutamate causes mental effects aside from taste sensations you have obviously not done your research. Both are FDA Generally Recognized As Safe and have been in common use for almost forever (in the case of MSG - meat and fish broths and even protien would be psychoactive! which they are not) - and Aspartame for over 50 years with no actual correlation to cancer or any of that other nonsense.

 

[Gormur]

I don't recall implying that glutamine, MSG or aspartame were psychoactive. All i can state definitively is that all three give me migraines - whether in food or in unadulterated supplemental form

Cheers for the links

 

[sekio]

That sounds to me like psychosomatic activity. Do you get headaches when you eat other sources of protien too?

 

[Gormur]

No. And these aren't mere headaches. They're temple-splitting migraines.. The type that make you wish you had a gun to end the pain

Growing up, i basically self-medicated with sugar and HFCS - drinking on average 4-6 cans of Coca-Cola per day from roughly aged 7-19.. after which time i eventually had to quit due to related migraines. At 28, i get a minor headache followed by a mental crash/fatigue if i consume sugar - even if only a small quantity of raw cane sugar

Not sure what to make of it other than my body rejecting it from a near lifetime of abuse