• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: Xorkoth | Madness

Carefully Calculated Suicide - A Philosophical Discussion

laserbeast

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
8
Hello all.

I just discovered this community, and with seemingly perfect timing. I'm a long experienced drug user. the short story is I've tried a bit of everything and have been clean from heroin for over 8 years. I drink alcohol now, use coke sometimes, mushrooms, LSD, and very recently tried meth for the first time. Meth is the reason for this post.

I had been on a cocaine kick for about month, using 2-4 times per week. Having been an experienced IV heroin user, I decided to try shooting coke. It was pretty cool, but easy to overamp quickly. After snorting meth for a few times, I gave shooting it a try. Idk if this was a big mistake or exactly what I've been looking for my whole life.

It's hard to explain every detail of my thoughts on this now, but maybe some of you can relate. I'm thinking hard about the philosophical/ethical nature of deciding now, consciously, to plan a very calculated binge that ends with the controlled taking of my own life. Not out of pain, discomfort, or desperation. Simply a decision to have a life experience better than the overwhelming majority of creatures in the history of existence, albeit a shorter one. I quit fearing death a long time ago and after I got clean from heroin I got into bodybuilding, built a ton of muscle, and stared a career in software development. There's lots more stuff I've achieved, but you get the idea.

I've tasted the slow burn pleasures life has to offer, and I have to say they don't seem worth it to me simply to live "longer". A short, intense, orgasmic life followed by a sweet painless death seems like the ideal way for an organism to exist. I feel a combination of things when I think about this: relief, guilt, fear of what my family and friends will think. Nobody will understand. Nobody. They won't get that I was happy.

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on this.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Philosophically doesn't make alot of sense. Plus lethal doses of drugs are rarely fun. They are either dysphoric, painful or anesthetic.

I suppose the closest i could see would be to take one's life at a certain age or as a result of illness or some sort of intractable suffering, but not in any other circumstances. The circumstances that produce life is exceedingly rare (or appears to be) so what you are describing doesn't quite make sense. If you are considering this there is probably more to the story than you're letting on.
 
While I certainly understand the sentiment as I've got a similar exit-strategy when the time comes, I think you'd get more responses in some other sub-forum rather than 'Other Drugs', where harm reduction is practiced in a different manner than say the Philosophy-forum.

That being said, before I employ the murder of myself I'd exhaust every option.
I agree about the relief, the guilt and the fear about what friends and family would think; but I feel that however I choose to go is nobody's business but mine. It's an event far into the future, but that simple choice grants me an odd serenity.
 
While I certainly understand the sentiment as I've got a similar exit-strategy when the time comes, I think you'd get more responses in some other sub-forum rather than 'Other Drugs', where harm reduction is practiced in a different manner than say the Philosophy-forum.

That being said, before I employ the murder of myself I'd exhaust every option.
I agree about the relief, the guilt and the fear about what friends and family would think; but I feel that however I choose to go is nobody's business but mine. It's an event far into the future, but that simple choice grants me an odd serenity.

Yeah i had intended to do so but got derailed.

Frankly i see something other than a philosophical question here so OD ---> 🕳
 
Depression can be resolved. I've been through it for years, but finally decided to do something about. I suffered for 5 years with depression before I finally went on to meds. They were lifesavers. If one doesn't work try another, and don't give up until you've exhausted every other option.
 
Hello all.

I just discovered this community, and with seemingly perfect timing. I'm a long experienced drug user. the short story is I've tried a bit of everything and have been clean from heroin for over 8 years. I drink alcohol now, use coke sometimes, mushrooms, LSD, and very recently tried meth for the first time. Meth is the reason for this post.

I had been on a cocaine kick for about month, using 2-4 times per week. Having been an experienced IV heroin user, I decided to try shooting coke. It was pretty cool, but easy to overamp quickly. After snorting meth for a few times, I gave shooting it a try. Idk if this was a big mistake or exactly what I've been looking for my whole life. In a word, it's fucking awesome.

It's hard to explain every detail of my thoughts on this now, but maybe some of you can relate. I'm thinking hard about the philosophical/ethical nature of deciding now, consciously, to plan a very calculated binge that ends with the controlled taking of my own life. Not out of pain, discomfort, or desperation. Simply a decision to have a life experience better than the overwhelming majority of creatures in the history of existence, albeit a shorter one. I quit fearing death a long time ago and after I got clean from heroin I got into bodybuilding, built a ton of muscle, and stared a career in software development. There's lots more stuff I've achieved, but you get the idea.

I've tasted the slow burn pleasures life has to offer, and I have to say they don't seem worth it to me simply to live "longer". A short, intense, orgasmic life followed by a sweet painless death seems like the ideal way for an organism to exist. I feel a combination of things when I think about this: relief, guilt, fear of what my family and friends will think. Nobody will understand. Nobody. They won't get that I was happy.

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on this.
Sounds a lot like the life of a dragonfly (flies far, has a ton of experience, but a very short life). I often wonder if I'm on the same path. I wouldn't regret leaving early too much, and I dont think it would hurt anyone too bad if I go, and sometimes I think humans weren't meant to live so long, I mean, back in the day, id be about to die at this age anyway. Ive lived a life many wouldn't by my age and just am exhausted, it was blissful but at this point I'm traumatized and just ready to "go to sleep". My biggest fear is to be trapped in a situation where I'm unable to commit suicide. I used to think of carrying a little thimble on a necklace with an OD amount of carfentanyl in it so I could go at a moments notice.
 
Depression can be resolved. I've been through it for years, but finally decided to do something about. I suffered for 5 years with depression before I finally went on to meds. They were lifesavers. If one doesn't work try another, and don't give up until you've exhausted every other option.
Read his post again. The point he is making is that he isn't depressed.
Not all suicides are results of despair.
 
My biggest fear is to be trapped in a situation where I'm unable to commit suicide. I used to think of carrying a little thimble on a necklace with an OD amount of carfentanyl in it so I could go at a moments notice.

They used to have barbiturates in places like China and Hong Kong, but I believe they don't offer that any more because the dark nets surrounding it got taken down. One could have stored say 15g of a barbiturate in a small airlocked container, and when the time was right they could just use it and be gone. Those days have since departed, and I can't help but wonder how people are going to be able to find a way to get the job done without any pain. Opiates do work, but they're not a guaranteed success from all the failed attempts, that is, unless one is opiate-naive.

Read his post again. The point he is making is that he isn't depressed.
Not all suicides are results of despair.

99% of them are, and that's what we need to address. The other 1%, there is probably not much chance of addressing anything. If someone is hell bent on self-destruction there is no stopping them.
 
They used to have barbiturates in places like China and Hong Kong, but I believe they don't offer that any more because the dark nets surrounding it got taken down. One could have stored say 15g of a barbiturate in a small airlocked container, and when the time was right they could just use it and be gone. Those days have since departed, and I can't help but wonder how people are going to be able to find a way to get the job done without any pain. Opiates do work, but they're not a guaranteed success from all the failed attempts, that is, unless one is opiate-naive.



99% of them are, and that's what we need to address. The other 1%, there is probably not much chance of addressing anything. If someone is hell bent on self-destruction there is no stopping them.
Can I post a fucked up picture i saw after reading/responding to this post? I dont want to encourage suicide though. Likely its a bad idea and before you get to whatever age, you'll find another reason.

But this, might just apply to me:
205132458-794765951406714-5971253408345712564-n.jpg
 
The challenge I have with this philosophically and practically is having meth euphoria as the essential determinant of when the pleasures in life have peaked.

The argument seems to be that OP will never experience anything to transcend the euphoria of meth, though he alludes to other non-euphoric pleasures having been worthwhile in life.

As an experienced meth user and lifelong hedonist I don’t think that is necessarily the case in a well lived life. There are many non-euphoric pleasures and satisfactions to be had in life and to cut out early in the absence of pain may well be to forgo the maximal rewards available in a human existence.

The wonderous and exalting experiences of existence are more than the rush of a neurochemical cascade despite the fact that neurochemistry underpins all our pleasures. Our consciousness is more than chemistry in our experience of life.

This strategy seems a little like the result of a failure of imagination. And I don’t mean that to be insulting, just that OP could maybe think more about the potentialities of experiencing his humanity and selfhood on a deeper and more sustained basis.

This may become clearer if he took meth longer and experienced its diminishing returns which ultimately show the paucity of its pleasures.
 
The challenge I have with this philosophically and practically is having meth euphoria as the essential determinant of when the pleasures in life have peaked.

The argument seems to be that OP will never experience anything to transcend the euphoria of meth, though he alludes to other non-euphoric pleasures having been worthwhile on life.

As an experienced meth user and lifelong hedonist I don’t think that is necessarily the case in a well lived life. There are many non-euphoric pleasures and satisfactions to be had in life and to cut out early in the absence of pain may well be to forgo the maximal rewards available in a human existence.

The wonderous and exalting experiences of existence are more than the rush of a neurochemical cascade despite the fact that neurochemistry underpins all our pleasures.

This strategy seems a little like the result of a failure of imagination. And I don’t mean that to be insulting, just that OP could maybe think more about the potentialities of experiencing his humanity and selfhood on deeper and more sustained basis.

This would become clearer if he took meth longer and experienced its diminishing returns which ultimately show the paucity of its pleasures.
Yeah, I seemed to have glossed over that part. There is so much more pleasure to be had than meth, meth will disappoint you very quickly, for some in a few days, for some a few months, then you will just be chasing that feeling. I mean, even drug induced personally there better than the dopamine flood, but to each their own. Or even just the "quick burning" pleasures or "life in the fast lane" - you are seriously missing out if IV meth is the end all be all.
 
It won't go how you think. I know, I've tried. I'm probably close to the same as you. I'm older, in my 40s. I have lived through many years of different types of drug addictions. And I have success in my life with all the trappings success in this world brings. And none of them are truly fulfilling. Not even having kids. I have tried the exact plan you are contemplating. However, unfortunately, you will find that meth use over 6 months in the capacity you are considering, will bring you to a level of existence where you are constantly in a low level psychosis. You will believe your thinking is accurate, although you will have a vague sense that it may be distorted or exaggerated. As you continue on, and tolerance inevitably develops, your mental faculties will begin to decay, and you will no longer be able to appreciate the high life you are now seeking. Trying to be the bulb that burns twice as bright for half as long, you will fail in this adventure. Sooner or later, even with all the money in the world, you will burn your receptors out. Eventually all the meth in the world can't get you to this heaven you are chasing. I can relate to everything you are saying, however I am saying it won't go as planned, I guarantee that.
 
My reply is mostly philosophical, as noted in the title. Also, disclaimer, I have a slight bias against suicide in this situation, but am not claiming it is unarguably wrong, or bad.

1) Is the fulfillment of your desire, as shared here, to the dismay of multiple others around you ethically sound? Is it selfish and narrow minded? Why should your desire take priority over a number of other peoples?

2) Why and how is a short burst of drug induced pleasure a better experience than what the majority of humans will ever experience? Is pleasure an inherently better experience than other experiences? Is drug induced pleasure more pleasurable than other types of pleasure? Say, having and raising children, falling in love, contributing to a community or organization, helping others in need, etc.

After typing those two points, my thoughts lead me to this:

You say you see the emptiness of what life has to offer, yet you seem to miss the emptiness of pleasure and of comfort. Why is an orgasmic drug experience better than having one's heart broken? That is a question that deems serious consideration and contemplation, if you truly aim to approach this inquiry from a philosophical stance.
 
From a philosophical standpoint, it is entirely hedonistic- which in my experience is devoid of meaning and will only lead to vanity and emptiness, which ultimately leads to this type of mindset. Ths real question posed here is "how can I experience the greatest amount of pleasure while facing the least amount of consequence", as OP stated that he's experienced success and other pleasures in life but in comparison, they aren't close to enough to the point of considering suicide. Assuming OP isn't trying to deceive or in denial, this is essentially a question of "how can I live a life in which I experience the greatest amount of pleasure humanly possible, regardless of consequence so long as it is painless to me?"

I am not attempting to judge OP's integrity, just analyze the philosophy driving the thought in as dry manner as possible.
I've tasted the slow burn pleasures life has to offer, and I have to say they don't seem worth it to me simply to live "longer". A short, intense, orgasmic life followed by a sweet painless death seems like the ideal way for an organism to exist. I feel a combination of things when I think about this: relief, guilt, fear of what my family and friends will think. Nobody will understand. Nobody. They won't get that I was happy.
This statement demonstrates that OP is aware that his actions will likely negatively affect others- particularly the fact he says he feels guilt and fear of what his family and friends will think. However, this statement is also very self-centered, only stopping to consider what the people who care about him will think- and the following statement gives me the impression that his concern is largely driven by a desire to protect his legacy after he's passed. There is no expression of how his actions will impact those that love and care about him beyond what they will think, seemingly about him. As if the narrative that he killed himself out of misery/depression is more concerning than the sadness and grief his family and friends will fill, and the inevitable fall out on their lives. It's essentially trading personal pleasure for other's misery. You get the time of your life once and for all, they get to deal with the loss. But hedonism is never concerned about anyone that won't bring it more pleasure, and I say this from experience being equally self indulgent.

There are many ways that this can be discussed, but I'd like to focus on the pleasure/pain aspect. I'd be lying if I said I hadn't had very similar thoughts myself, but the truth is that life is already limited and very short, so if you aren't trying to escape something what is it that you are trying to accomplish, aside from essentially the most grandiose form of masturbation... I mean it's literally not that much different than tying a rope around your neck to the point where you orgasm as you're approaching death. Except you get caught with a needle in your arm rather than your limp biscuit.

So this leads me to my next thought- if one isn't trying to escape anything yet is still considering ending it all for the ultimate orgasm... I have to question how OP defines "happy". In my mind, if one is truly happy, then one would try to survive at all costs. This is because I don't define happiness as simply as having a smile on my face and basic needs met. For me, true happiness has always been fleeting and is something that is pursued more often than experienced. It takes a lot of work to be happy- you have to maintain relationships and even then the bulk won't last, and not for lack of effort. You have to wake up every day and discipline yourself to do things that will better you even though they aren't desirable to do. Most spend the bulk of their time working jobs they probably didn't even know existed when they were kids and people are asking them "what do you want to be when you grow up", which is generally asked and answered in a superficial manner. It isn't "what brings you joy in life?", the question is basically "what occupation do you want to have within this society when you grow up?" Which personally makes me want to escape not only the monotony of working most jobs but also the superficial empty culture hyper focused on personal gain, generally in the form of money. And doing so in a way that is not only painless but euphoric sounds too good be to true.

But as soon as a step out of my hedonistic mindset, the act suddenly appears extremely selfish as most suicides leave many with pain that lasts a lifetime. So although you remove your pain, you are actually inflicting more pain onto the rest of the world. And to do so all in the name of having one mass euphoria- not trying to escape pain or remove burden from loved ones... well I can't see how it can be viewed as anything other than complete hedonism with almost a touch of sadism, unless absolutely no one will be negatively impacted by your action.. which seems hard to believe could be true of anyone with a family.

So then in conclusion, I would have to say that OP's definition of happiness isn't a very good one, as trading death for one last pleasure that wion't even be able to be fully realized because you won't be conscious for much of the experience. It's not much different than jumping off a cliff with no parachute for the thrill of the fall down. It benefits no one except you for the last few brief seconds of your life and leaves everyone else to handle the pain of loss, etc. Although one could scientifically break down happiness to a chemical level in the brain, I think it is a pretty big oversimplification. I personally don't have a solid definition of what happiness means to mean, and it's constantly changing with age, but the one constant is love. Not just romantic love, but when you care about someone more than yourself and that care is reciprocated. That to me is what makes life worth sticking it through all the ups and downs, and keeps me fighting to hold on even in my lows because I know there's people who would be much more than just sad. Watching and listening to the family and friends of people who have committed suicide makes it apparent to me that their pain will far outlast any bit of pleasure OP would get from proposed OD.

So to truly conclude entirely from a philosophical perspective, OP is trading short lived euphoria that can never be realized by OP, for the sorrow of anyone that actually cares about OP- which will be realized by each individual. The pain inflicted would only be in OPs attempts of achieving more pleasure, if it's true OP is happy and not trying to escape. It is ultimate hedonism.

From a non philosophical standpoint, I'd ask what's happening in your life right now? How do you define happiness? What types of things make you happy? Then I'd probably ask why all those things aren't worth sticking around for. And I may even agree that those things aren't worth sticking around for. I know for myself I've had to stop and ask myself what does happiness even mean to me? Lately it's something I do multiple times a day, or even all day some days if my mind isn't preoccupied. This could be completely different for you, but I've come to the sad realization that I actually gave up my happiness years ago for what I thought was a "better" happiness. To put it bluntly, I either walked away or destroyed pretty much all the meaningful relationships in my life up in pursuit of hedonism. Money sex and drugs. Nothing else was worth my time and if it was getting in my way of those 3 things or slowing me down at all, it needed to be cut out. Well over a decade into that mindset and I'm finally beginning to realize the depths of consequence. From a superficial point of view, I should be happy- I should be far more than happy, the me of 5-10 years ago wouldn't be able to comprhend the depths of my emptiness. I've spent a lot of time looking for someone or something to blame, but I've come to realize I've can't blame anyone but myself for chasing vanity.

Ultimately, there is no meaning in life other than the ones you choose to apply to it. All pleasures are fleeting, even life itself is. For me, it's about discovering and pursuing the pleasures that don't leave you with regret but instead continue to fuel your passion for life. I can't pretend that I have all the answers or any at all but when I look around and see people enjoying the most simple of things, well, I start to wonder if the problem hasnt been my perspective causing me a lot of my pain.
 
I want to thank everyone for their very thoughtful replies. I want to reiterate very clearly that I am not currently planning on executing this (just a disclaimer), but the questions still burn in my curious mind.

Speaking of burning, I've realized that meth isn't that great lol. I'm sure some of the regular users would roll their eyes at this noob realization, and I understand why. Shooting it in particular get old FAST. It's a shame, but not an unfamiliar conclusion. As I age it seems drugs of all kinds become less interesting. I'm likely to start to agree with what some of you are saying about the nature of life's pleasures and purpose. Maybe I have more to learn than I'd originally thought.

Still, the hypothetical fascinates me. Suppose there were a perfect drug, or maybe one would just manage the use of a drug such that burnout is avoided. A big part of me sees no difference in the long pleasant life vs the short ultra-pleasant one. I mean, not of any big picture consequence beyond causing some pain to loved ones and such. I'm going to abstain from debate of the issue, both because I haven't the articulation at the moment and because I'm exhausted and some more concrete things are demanding my attention.

Thanks again everyone. Feel free to chime in more. Maybe I'll come back and dump some new shower thoughts on the issue lol.
 
Sorry, but TDS doesn't allow for posts that glorify drug use, as you've done, and we don't really need to have a debate about whether suicide is ok or not. Lots of people that have had loved ones commit suicide will tell you that it broke their heart, and many people (including myself) will realize that they've made a mistake after surviving a suicide attempt. I truly hope you are able to find some help and reconsider.

I'm going to leave this thread open since you seem to be reaching out, but I will edit some of your post to keep it within our guidelines for this forum. I'd also like to ask people to limit their responses to offering support and advice. Otherwise it will be closed. Check out the TDS rules below.

 
Sorry, but TDS doesn't allow for posts that glorify drug use, as you've done, and we don't really need to have a debate about whether suicide is ok or not. Lots of people that have had loved ones commit suicide will tell you that it broke their heart, and many people (including myself) will realize that they've made a mistake after surviving a suicide attempt. I truly hope you are able to find some help and reconsider.

I'm going to leave this thread open since you seem to be reaching out, but I will edit some of your post to keep it within our guidelines for this forum. I'd also like to ask people to limit their responses to offering support and advice. Otherwise it will be closed. Check out the TDS rules below.


If this post breaks TDS rules will you kindly move it to the Philosophy forum, then? This is a fantastic discussion, IMO.
 
@Mafioso got it right. Suicide is a hedonistic, selfish action that has huge negatives for the people that remain.

I have played with the line between hell and here. I have crossed that line by overdosing on heroin and being pulled back out after being narcaned by a police. Suicide is a cowardly way of addressing life and the pain of it.

Problem with checking out like that, you don't get to experience the beauty of life either. You just leave a wake of hurt and pain behind you.
 
If this post breaks TDS rules will you kindly move it to the Philosophy forum, then? This is a fantastic discussion, IMO.
It kinda lands on both side of the fence, and it is a good discussion, that's why I didn't want to close it. I'll check with the other mods and see where they think it should end up.
 
Top