N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
cardiovascular risks from PD's?
CRICKETBEE
Bluelighter
After reading the 5-htp thread, I am now wondering if PD's could cause any heart issues (over years and years of sessions) is there any data on this? would 2c's be worse than tryptamines, etc....
any info appreciated
thnx
mimac
Bluelighter
Hmm, only clinical trials or epidemiologic studies would give a clear picture. But you should steer clear (at least from chronic administration) of 5-ht2b receptor agonists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2B_receptor)
Also check: http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0009019
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CRICKETBEE
Bluelighter
so it looks like the main ones to watch out for then are MDA and MDMA?
(unless the wiki is leaving out others)
thanks so much
mimac
Bluelighter
It all comes down to frequency of usage. I don't think a few sessions in a year with mdma will have lasting effects on your heart. But i don't really think anyone knows where the cutoff limit is...
Many psychedelics are 5HT2B agonists. DOx's are, 2C-X's i'm aware of no data either way, LSD is, psilocin is, etc. Bromo-DFly probably is too (from a binding database, i can't find it atm though, forgot to bookmark)
It's important to remember that nor-d-fenfluramine (the metabolite of d-fenfluramine which caused all those problems with phen-fen) is highly active and was being taken every day in relatively large doses, along with a shitty stimulant (phenteramine), for months or years, by people who needed perscription medication for weight loss (ie, they were overweight, probably obese, which hardly says much about the likely state of their heart before hand). Basically, the phen-fen example of 5HT2B toxicity was a worst case scenario in just about every way imaginable.
It's a chronic toxicity, in any case. I have certainly heard of people taking psyches daily (usually in low doses), mostly without incident. Does anyone know what the symptoms of Cardiac Fibrosis are? I remember seeing a post of someone mentioning chest pain after taking DOI every day for a month+. Early signs of it have been found in MDMA users.
Resveratol has been found to slow development of cardiac fibrosis.
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nuke
Bluelighter
Pretty much all psychedelics are 5HT2B receptor ligands and probably agonists or partial agonists. In fact, 5HT2B receptor affinity is often fingered as an indicator for psychedelic potency, because it usually correlates to 2A/2C affinity.
Unless you're using them every day or so, I wouldn't worry too much.