The proof lies upon him who affirms, not upon him who denies. The rebutting party is under no obligation to disprove anything until the person making the claim has proven their theory, once that occurs they are only obligated to rebut what you have proven.
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capped mdma
- Thread starter rocknroll702
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The proof lies upon him who affirms, not upon him who denies. The rebutting party is under no obligation to disprove anything until the person making the claim has proven their theory, once that occurs they are only obligated to rebut what you have proven.
Folley
Bluelighter
Ive already proved a substantial connection between the stomach and emotions.
The only thing I havent proven, is how MDMA plays into that. Considering the only studies done on MDMA and the stomach are usually done on damage to the GI track, there are many connections to be made.
Ill think about making a thread later this week on the subject, and actually get scientifical on this shit.
The only thing I havent proven, is how MDMA plays into that. Considering the only studies done on MDMA and the stomach are usually done on damage to the GI track, there are many connections to be made.
Ill think about making a thread later this week on the subject, and actually get scientifical on this shit.
Darksidesam
Bluelight Crew
My personal hunch on this is,
that the best method realistically is to just to take Mdma in a capsule. I always do that.
We can't even be 100% sure on it really, as researched as Mdma is you cant be certain that the research proves what they think is going on.
I think that when you snort it, it must not affect the serotonin in the stomach (However, perhaps the 'drip' still has a slight effect on this)
I have never snorted, nor had the desire to snort mdma though.
Is there any writeups, or does anyone who has taken mdma in these ways: Capsule, loose powder/crystals *Gag*, plugging and snorting want to share their experience from it?
From what i have found though, you have to try stuff for yourself to find out I guess.
I really do love mdma, the biggest factor with it, is how long since your last dose (and what size was it/ did you redose)
That will give quite a big factor.
Perhaps people who snort it choose to snort it more often than others who capsule it, like on that BBC documentary, that guy snorted it every 2 hours.
I'd happily wait another 60 days to take 100mg capsule, its that worth it.
that the best method realistically is to just to take Mdma in a capsule. I always do that.
We can't even be 100% sure on it really, as researched as Mdma is you cant be certain that the research proves what they think is going on.
I think that when you snort it, it must not affect the serotonin in the stomach (However, perhaps the 'drip' still has a slight effect on this)
I have never snorted, nor had the desire to snort mdma though.
Is there any writeups, or does anyone who has taken mdma in these ways: Capsule, loose powder/crystals *Gag*, plugging and snorting want to share their experience from it?
From what i have found though, you have to try stuff for yourself to find out I guess.
I really do love mdma, the biggest factor with it, is how long since your last dose (and what size was it/ did you redose)
That will give quite a big factor.
Perhaps people who snort it choose to snort it more often than others who capsule it, like on that BBC documentary, that guy snorted it every 2 hours.
I'd happily wait another 60 days to take 100mg capsule, its that worth it.
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nobody- least of all me - is disputing that there is a connection. hence, you didn't need to prove anything here.
at least we agree that you haven't proven anything in this regard. that said, you're now moving the goalposts and, from there, the conclusion is obvious. your assertion - your theory if you will - is that orally-taken mdma is more 'loved-up' because mdma 'stimulates' or 'breaks down' serotonin in the gut. let's review your claims so far...
"mdma works on serotinin"? false - mdma 'works on' neurons in the brain causing them to release serotonin.
"mdma stimulates serotonin in the gut" false - the effects of mdma take place in neurons in the brain.
"sert" is an acceptable (indeed, accepted) abbreviation for serotonin false - "sert" in this context is a contraction of "serotonin transporter" which is a protein that transports serotonin. sert and serotonin are completely different things.
finally, something on which we both agree.
i'm not trying to make you look stupid - you're doing a perfectly good job of that yourself.
i'm trying to make you understand that you're speculating and trying to pass it off as fact. the only fact here is that you demonstrably don't know what you're talking about here yet you're making a stand like you do. i've explained why what you're saying makes little sense, so have about 4 other well-respected bluelighters yet you stubbornly cling to your position. i have absolutely no idea why you're so determined to believe you're right but, as busty wisely says, bl's primary concern is hr. hr should be built on facts and your speculation and fabrication fly directly in the face of bl's mission.
alasdair
Folley
Bluelighter
So there is a connection, just not when MDMA is taken? Woah I never knew that was a fact...
If you would have read on in those studies, you would have also found that drugs that work on serotonin (SSRIs and such) often have side effects like nausea and other stomach problems, because the balance of serotonin in the stomach and the brain is offset.
If emotions are only controlled by our neurons and the chemicals in and around them; Why is there serotonin, GABA, dopamine and hundreds more of chemicals that are found in our brains?
You know, actually you're right. MDMA does only work on the neurons.
In mice.
When it is injected.
Like in the all studies you are using to tell me how MDMA works.
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^
alasdair
PlurPsyed
Bluelighter
Swallow the cap. Even if pouring it on your tongue has some marginal benefit (I have no idea if it does) it won't make up for how gross mdma tastes
are you completely retarded? seriously. serotonin and dopamine are 'the chemicals in and around them'.
the fact that you ask this question yet again confirms that you have absolutely no idea what you're discussing...
/facepalm.
alasdair
Folley
Bluelighter
Are you?
You do realize that only a portion of MDMAs effects are created by Serotonin, right? You do realize that norepinephrine, prolactin, and probably HUNDREDS of other chemicals are released when you take MDMA... right?
And you DO realize that just because a scientist injected a mice in the brain with a shot of MDMA into its brain and says that it works by releasing serotonin, that doesnt mean its the ONLY way that the drug works...
Right?
Or do you have a learning disability where you cant understand rhetorical questions?
You do realize that only a portion of MDMAs effects are created by Serotonin, right? You do realize that norepinephrine, prolactin, and probably HUNDREDS of other chemicals are released when you take MDMA... right?
And you DO realize that just because a scientist injected a mice in the brain with a shot of MDMA into its brain and says that it works by releasing serotonin, that doesnt mean its the ONLY way that the drug works...
Right?
Or do you have a learning disability where you cant understand rhetorical questions?
right? right? right?
again, very childish attitude.
you've made it pretty clear that you're speculating and that, because nobody can disprove your 'theory' that you are, therefore, correct. you've dug your heels in and made it clear that you're not interested in considering the views of others. even if you've decided i'm an idiot and i'm wrong (as you seem to have), three or four other people have tried to show you that you misunderstand the mechanics of this process but they're wrong and you're right. right? right? right?
the discussion is here in black and white for the world to read. bluelight is a market of ideas and the market will decide the value of your contribution in this thread.
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
alasdair
again, very childish attitude.
you've made it pretty clear that you're speculating and that, because nobody can disprove your 'theory' that you are, therefore, correct. you've dug your heels in and made it clear that you're not interested in considering the views of others. even if you've decided i'm an idiot and i'm wrong (as you seem to have), three or four other people have tried to show you that you misunderstand the mechanics of this process but they're wrong and you're right. right? right? right?
the discussion is here in black and white for the world to read. bluelight is a market of ideas and the market will decide the value of your contribution in this thread.
alasdair
Folley
Bluelighter
No, I realize this is a theory. Thats why I call it as such.
Ive considered your views, and disproved them. You said said MDMA only works in the neurons, I show substantial connection between the gut and emotions.
Then you said that MDMA cannot possibly in any way "stimulate" the serotonin in your stomach.
I disagree with this, while still having no scientific proof to back this up. I believe that the simple fact that serotonin is practically responsible for making our digestive system work is evidence enough that sometime during the long process of metabolism, MDMA, in some way, activates whatever processes that happen in the gut that make us feel good.
When combined with the actions on the neurons, the serotonergic effects are bound to be much more pronounced when compared to snorting, which has much more speedy effects.
Once again, I never call this fact, but I think the scientific evidence when combined with the subjective effects, is enough to be able to safely assume that MDMA is much more lovely when dropped.
Ive considered your views, and disproved them. You said said MDMA only works in the neurons, I show substantial connection between the gut and emotions.
Then you said that MDMA cannot possibly in any way "stimulate" the serotonin in your stomach.
I disagree with this, while still having no scientific proof to back this up. I believe that the simple fact that serotonin is practically responsible for making our digestive system work is evidence enough that sometime during the long process of metabolism, MDMA, in some way, activates whatever processes that happen in the gut that make us feel good.
When combined with the actions on the neurons, the serotonergic effects are bound to be much more pronounced when compared to snorting, which has much more speedy effects.
Once again, I never call this fact, but I think the scientific evidence when combined with the subjective effects, is enough to be able to safely assume that MDMA is much more lovely when dropped.
Folley
Bluelighter
No scientific proof, just simple theory.
You think they had "scientific proof" that MDMA released serotonin in the first place? No, they had to carry out studies to find that out.
Thats the way it is with any discovery. Until a study is conducted on this exact situation, this is going to continue to be theory.
You think they had "scientific proof" that MDMA released serotonin in the first place? No, they had to carry out studies to find that out.
Thats the way it is with any discovery. Until a study is conducted on this exact situation, this is going to continue to be theory.
TearItDown
Bluelighter
Folley, you have disproved nothing and have only made yourself look like a fool. Just give up for now, go do your own scientific case study to support your theory, and come back with the results. Until then, just hold your tongue.
Folley
Bluelighter
Except where he said that MDMA only works on the neurons.
If there is a link between the serotonin in the gut and the stomach, then when such a LARGE change occurs to one, as when you take MDMA, a change is bound to happen in the other.
To think that the stomach just sits there and does nothing while your brain is being re-wired is just silly.
Ive also stated how the studies he is citing from memory are ones done on mice, by injecting them with extremely large amounts of MDMA.
This would only show us how MDMA works in the brain only, obviously, as it would bypass the stomach and other systems completely. Not to mentions humans have a far more superior serotonin system than mice do.
If there is a link between the serotonin in the gut and the stomach, then when such a LARGE change occurs to one, as when you take MDMA, a change is bound to happen in the other.
To think that the stomach just sits there and does nothing while your brain is being re-wired is just silly.
Ive also stated how the studies he is citing from memory are ones done on mice, by injecting them with extremely large amounts of MDMA.
This would only show us how MDMA works in the brain only, obviously, as it would bypass the stomach and other systems completely. Not to mentions humans have a far more superior serotonin system than mice do.
oh, so it's bound to happen! i mean, it's just bound to...
you never disproved that some salmon live up trees and eat pencils. still waiting.
alasdair
you never disproved that some salmon live up trees and eat pencils. still waiting.
alasdair
Folley
Bluelighter
Unless you can think of a reason that the two systems are completely separate from each other, ONLY when MDMA is taken, than yes. It is.
Just because I dont know the science behind it, doesnt make my theory any less true. Nor does it make it true obviously, but with evidence to back me up, and the only evidence against it being that Im stupid;
I would say it has a decent shot of being true in some degree.
Just because I dont know the science behind it, doesnt make my theory any less true. Nor does it make it true obviously, but with evidence to back me up, and the only evidence against it being that Im stupid;
I would say it has a decent shot of being true in some degree.
of course you are correct but we have to do better at bluelight than "here's a claim. until you disprove it, it's true". that's simply not how discussion works. go read logoj's post #41 again. if you make a claim and can't or won't back it up when challenged, it speaks, very simply, to the heart of your claim.
bluelight's been around for 10 years and i believe that a factor in that longevity is that we don't make decisions and give advice based on speculation and fabrication. if somebody makes a claim, we invite them to back it up. it's very straightforward and it ensures that the quality of discussion here is something of which we can all be proud. when i challenge you to back up a claim, i'm not being a dick, i'm trying to ensure that the quality of discussion here is as high as it can be.
to me, when you make a simplistic, vague, inaccurate claim like "mdma works on serotonin. there's serotonin in the gut therefore oral mdma is more loved up" and refuse to substantiate your claim, you do bluelight a disservice.
your continual moving of the goalposts, again, speaks to the veracity of your claim.
you never disproved that some salmon live up trees and eat pencils. still waiting.
alasdair
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Folley
Bluelighter
Except I did, every time...
I explained how emotions and serotonin in the stomach are connected, and showed a vital link between the two sources of serotonin. I also showed how other pharmaceutical drugs like SSRIs that have their effects "in the neurons of the brain" make changes to the serotonin in the gut.
The only thing that has not been proved yet, is what happens when MDMA instead of medication is taken. This is because its NOT going to happen. Not for a long time, due to restrictive laws on research, and the fact that to even see how this works, you have to have a human subject eat MDMA and send him through the gauntlet of tests.
So how again am I providing such a "disservice" to BL by not providing this? I dont understand. If Im talking about serotonin in the stomach, why do I need to explain how serotonin in the brain works too? I mean if you dont know that, there are plenty of other threads where myself and others have explained it.
If you even know what serotonin is, Im sure you already know the effects that MDMA has on the brain (once again, in the brain, because they do tests by injecting mice with high amounts of MDMA). Thats how I learned about all those neurochemicals
^^ Right there. Salmon not in a tree.
To think that there is an undeniable connection between the gut and the brain, but just not when highly serotonergic drugs are involved is ignorance.
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