Can't trip anymore after 25C and Phenibut (Question about GABA and psychedlelics)
Short/TLDR Version
1. I am somewhat experienced with Psychs/no issues
2. I abuse 25c-NBOMe
3. I abuse Phenibut
4. As a result, I can't Really trip like I used to and I need more to trip
5. I feel like I need Weed to trip now
6. Some cognitive symptoms and also possible tinnitus/inflamated eustachian tube
7. SEE bottom for questions I have
Thank You
I'll start by listing the drugs i've used that have cause this problem that I'm having and then I'll describe my problem in hopes that someone on here can help me out. I'll be very thorough so that someone can help "diagnose" my issue.
Prior Experience
Mushrooms (three times)
LSD (twice)
4-Aco-Dmt (10ish times)
Salvia
Cannabis
I had very low natural tolerence to all of these compounds. Never any problems.
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25C-NBOMe
Last year I had ordered some 25c-nbome blotters remembering how much I liked the chemical after trying it in liquid solution a few weeks prior. I had done it maybe five times before this in highish doses but it was always a great trip every time. I had also used 4-aco-dmt and mushrooms following those trips (always spaced out at least a week a part, and not in large doses). These trips were always great as well and I never had any problem with them.
Anyways, when I received blotter it was weeks after my last 4-aco-dmt trip, so I knew tolerance wouldn't be an issue. I took one hoping it would be a full blown trip as my other 1000ug 25c trips had been. Unfortunately I didn't really trip. I had slightly intricate visuals (not what I was used to), and no hallucinations. The side effects were present though, granted also not as they can get, but also proportionately higher than the visuals and head-space (which was almost non-existant). I kind of brushed this off thinking that the tabs were probably just weaker than intranasal drops (which they are) and so I didn't really realize there was an issue. I took two next time maybe a week later, but it was only slightly more trippy. Still nothing like I had tripped before. I did this again two weeks later thinking it was a tolerence problem but it was still a weak trip.
By this point I thought it was a vendor problem. I thought he laid them weaker than advertised and so I took four the following week. Slightly trippier, but the headspace was probably just as weak. I was really confused as to why I couldn't trip. Surely they couldn't be dosed this low. I continued to take two tabs every week hoping that I would trip. I realize this was really stupid. I never really experienced side effects following 25c for more than a day, and so I thought tolerance was the only issue I had to worry about, and one week had seemed to be more than enough time in the past. I was now blindly trying to solve my new issue with chaotic logic and reasoning. For example, I thought during one of these experiments that maybe the blotters didn't work sublingually, and so I tried them bucally. Still weak. Read more online, and now I think my problem is that I have to brush my gums really hard before trying them bucally. Worked a bit better, but still nothing great. It was basically shit like this until I got to the point, maybe five weeks later that I realized I wasn't going to trip and so I stopped.
My side effects at this point would probably be overall fatigue, and mild cognitive problems. I didn't have HPPD or anything and I wasn't hallucinating or anything. My main issue was that I was reckless with my reasoning, I didn't think things through all the way. For example, I was less hesitant to spend money, where as before I was a saving hoarder, and I was eating pretty carelessly too. I had slight depression before this, and although it didn't make it worse, it made it less manageable, and I'd found myself slipping into anxious depressed states more often and more easily. I didn't really realize this for a while after though.
One thing I should add is that I was an everyday pot smoker at the time I was experimenting with the liquid solution 25c-nbome and 4-aco-dmt. I smoked alongside almost every trip which defintely boosted their effects. By the time I was trying the blotter though, I had stopped smoking pot after losing my connection and I really didn't feel like finding a new one. Maybe I was just used to tripping with pot, and mentally, I wasn't meeting the trip expectations I had set before, and maybe this was why I never thought I really tripped with the blotter. Im not sure though since I had also tripped pretty hard while not smoking pot before.
Phenibut:
Sometime after stopping that dumb experiment I decided to try out Phenibut; this was my second mistake I think. I was drug-free at this point, and had put psychedelics behind me for the time being (it had been more than a month since my last trip). So I took 2 grams of Phenibut, waited two hours, and got only a slight change in mood. I had read of people taking 1gram and getting more than desirable effects so I really didn't know what to make of it. I took two more, thinking maybe I just needed more due to natural tolerance (this was my first GABA drug). I had always had a low tolerance to every drug I've tried so I didn't really know why I didn't get much off two grams. After I took some two more though I definitely got some nice effects. I then decided my regular dose to be 4 grams at once after a few dosed experiments. This is a pretty big dose though. My only means for justifying it was that it was the lowest dose that would get me the effects people claimed off .5-2 grams. I thought that if it didn't effect me at dosages lower than that, than it really wasn't harming me. How could it due any harm in at 2-4grams if it wasn't affecting me psychoactivly. this was of course pretty irrational, but it was also my reasoning behind taking the nbome blotters. I thought I had to get the psychoactive effects before I could be harmed by it.
Anyways I went through a lot of phenibut (80ish grams) before I realized it wasn't really doing anything anymore. The feeling I had gotten the first time only happened maybe three times after that. I still got the anxiolytic effects, just not the euphoria. I dosed maybe three times a week for a few weeks then went to once a week.
Smoking Pot Again:
As I mentioned earlier, I had stopped smoking pot before even doing the 25c blotters, and stopped for about 5 months. After smoking agin I noticed it wasn't as immersive as before I stopped. I would still get very high, but not in a complete way. I didn't get the euphoria i would usually get and I didn't get the boost in creativity and what not that it would give me before. Even when it got me so stoned all I did was watch tv and satisfy the munchies, that was a lot better and more full-fulling of an experience than now. Even times where I had taken a month t break and would come back I would get uber baked, now it's almost like back where I picked up again. It's really hard to explain.
I continued smoking though because it was still good enough. my tolerence, however, increased a lot faster than it did before. I was soon smoking bowls and bowls of dank a few times a day (still getting high as fuck) where as 1 gram of dank would last me a month of everyday smoking before (i had really low natural tolerance as I mentioned). The only thing better this time was that I could get really high, and experience virtually no anxiety effects or anti-social effects. I would trade those benefits for all the other aspects of the high I was losing though.
Tripping after 25c and during/after phenibut use:
I have taken low and heroic doses since my experiments with 25c and phenibut, and all have lacked something. I can't trip off low doses anymore, where as before I would get a full experience on low doses, I mean relatively speaking of course. There was always something there even if I didnt trip hard. Now if I take an equally low dose of whatever substance, I don't get that. I get the same level, or even increased, of side effects, but the pleasurable effects aren't there. There's almost not even a hint of a trip. Average doses are the same, with only a bit of the good physical effects. This also not really trippy at all though. Tripping feels very muddy, bleak, and foggy I guess.
I had a 10mg 4-aco-dmt and 3 gram syrian rue trip that went decent but still felt like it had something missing. This was my last real trip I'd say, and it happened during the time I was using phenibut (although I didn't take it during the trip). As I progessed with my phenibut use, my trips (again, never mixed with trips) got bleaker and muddier, so I think the phenibut is what caused my main problem. The feeling that something was "missing" increased as time went on, and so did my phenibut use (until i stopped, but its damage was perhaps not over) so there is a correlation there.
I did 40mg of 4-aco-dmt sometime after (a huge dose) and I tripped pretty hard. The problem is though that it was almost like there was something missing again. Like there was something obstructing the trip, and preventing me from fully being immersed in it. Kind of like I was watching it on tv rather than experiencing it. It's really really hard to describe, but the main thing I'd say is that there is something missing, or that it feels like there is something blocking (like physically in my brain or body) me from getting the level of experience that dose would normally get me. It's cloudy and muggy as well, and full of side-effects but not euphoria.
I later tried acid since then with some friends (maybe a month after the one above), and was VERY dissapointed. My friends tripped hard, and the friend that got it said it was some of the strongest acid he's ever gotten. I tripped, but again it was like tripping with something blocking the good effects. I didn't get any of the revelations or thoughts I would normally have gotten. Thought patterns/trains actually were almost non-existant. It actually dulled my cognitive abilities a lot, where as before my mind would just race and fill with ideas. It was almost like taking acid without any of the psychoactive effects, like at all. Just the physical effects, which were also bleak and "groggy." No euphoria. I actually did "trip" a bit, but there was so much other mental junk and blockage from letting me really trip it felt like.
It wasn't until after I smoked pot that I realized I needed pot to trip. I smoked and it elevated the trip into an actual trip. Almost as if the pot was necessary to reveal the LSD. I didn't smoke until like hr 6 though so it still wasn't a full trip. and still, NO EUPHORIA. and still no revelations, not even small ones. I later smoked pot while taking DOC (weeks after) and it did the same thing.
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To Summarize:
So overall my trips (as of my last trip a few months ago) feel muddy, instead of clear, and they produce side effects in place of euphoria. Pot helps, but it also comes with drawbacks and I don't want to rely on it to trip. I've been exercising, maintaining a pretty good diet, and taking omega 3's and piracetam. I'm seeing noticeable improvement in my regular life, but I'm not sure as to how it has affected my trips (I want to "check progress" in a month or two since I'm pretty sure I'm getting better). My main issue now it tolerance, and I think if I take enough of a certain drug Ill get a real trip but, I don't want to waste drugs like that, and it could also increase the side effects again.
The last pscyh I've taken is 2CB in November. It was a fun little trip, but it was relatively weak. Besides that it didn't give me the same muddy-effects I got from the trip before that so it shows I'm progressing somewhat I believe. My main issue now is tolerence, and needing weed to fully kick in a trip (which I needed for 2CB). I did take theanine beforehand so maybe it dulled the trip.
Question about Phenethylamines vs Tryptamines and GABA:
I think phenethylamines and LSD seem to affect me less than tryptamines. I've done mescaline, DOC, and acid, and all have been underwhelming. Mushrooms and 4-aco-dmt (last i've tried was 3 months ago) still affect me even in small doses. All of these, again, feel like they're missing something. Alochol and theanine also feel like they're missing a lot. I can still drink and get drunk, but it's not a pleasureable drunk like before, it's dirty if I drink too much. Theanine also has no effect on me. I was wondering if this has anything to do with GABA and the phenibut I abused, because I didn't notice that my 25c blotter trips affected me negatively until I did phenibut and found I had an incredible tolerence to it for some reason.
The reason I think Phenibut is involved is because I read somewhere that marijuana and psychedelics affect GABA somehow. Marijuana is somehow involved with GABA receptors, and that's why you trip harder when you smoke weed. Phenibut affects GABA as well, and since I abused it, it might of damaged those receptors or something.
I have trouble reading I think and writing is harder. It's almost like trying to read and write at a threshold dose of a psychedelic. It's hard to write my ideas out. I heard this is a typical side-effect to bezos so maybe the phenibut is what harmed me more than the 25C, and the 25C issues I had were the catalyst for my phenibut problems. (I'm assuming of course).
I also have this ear problem (maybe tinnitus without ringning noise) that I think came up with when I took 25c or phenibut. I've gone to the doctor's but I didn't get much help, and it's not life-threatening. I can't say though that it was caused by either of those, it just happened around that time. The only thing that could say that was that phenibut would sometimes give me some ear-popping, or muffling sounds.
Questions:
I'd like to know GABA receptors role in psychedlics and marijuana and if the phenibut could have interact with this in any way. I'm almost positive I'd be a lot better had I never done the phenibut. I never really noticed any real problems until after that. Maybe the 25c issues I had led to the phenibut causing more damage. I'm not sure though, since I've never read of people having trouble tripping while withdrawing from bezos or alcohol.
What are some things I can do to speed up my recovery? Piracetam has helped a lot, but I'm not sure what else would give me equally significant help. Would taking 5HTP (or Melatonin) at night make things worse?
Thanks,
anonrocky
Short/TLDR Version
1. I am somewhat experienced with Psychs/no issues
2. I abuse 25c-NBOMe
3. I abuse Phenibut
4. As a result, I can't Really trip like I used to and I need more to trip
5. I feel like I need Weed to trip now
6. Some cognitive symptoms and also possible tinnitus/inflamated eustachian tube
7. SEE bottom for questions I have
Thank You
I'll start by listing the drugs i've used that have cause this problem that I'm having and then I'll describe my problem in hopes that someone on here can help me out. I'll be very thorough so that someone can help "diagnose" my issue.
Prior Experience
Mushrooms (three times)
LSD (twice)
4-Aco-Dmt (10ish times)
Salvia
Cannabis
I had very low natural tolerence to all of these compounds. Never any problems.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
25C-NBOMe
Last year I had ordered some 25c-nbome blotters remembering how much I liked the chemical after trying it in liquid solution a few weeks prior. I had done it maybe five times before this in highish doses but it was always a great trip every time. I had also used 4-aco-dmt and mushrooms following those trips (always spaced out at least a week a part, and not in large doses). These trips were always great as well and I never had any problem with them.
Anyways, when I received blotter it was weeks after my last 4-aco-dmt trip, so I knew tolerance wouldn't be an issue. I took one hoping it would be a full blown trip as my other 1000ug 25c trips had been. Unfortunately I didn't really trip. I had slightly intricate visuals (not what I was used to), and no hallucinations. The side effects were present though, granted also not as they can get, but also proportionately higher than the visuals and head-space (which was almost non-existant). I kind of brushed this off thinking that the tabs were probably just weaker than intranasal drops (which they are) and so I didn't really realize there was an issue. I took two next time maybe a week later, but it was only slightly more trippy. Still nothing like I had tripped before. I did this again two weeks later thinking it was a tolerence problem but it was still a weak trip.
By this point I thought it was a vendor problem. I thought he laid them weaker than advertised and so I took four the following week. Slightly trippier, but the headspace was probably just as weak. I was really confused as to why I couldn't trip. Surely they couldn't be dosed this low. I continued to take two tabs every week hoping that I would trip. I realize this was really stupid. I never really experienced side effects following 25c for more than a day, and so I thought tolerance was the only issue I had to worry about, and one week had seemed to be more than enough time in the past. I was now blindly trying to solve my new issue with chaotic logic and reasoning. For example, I thought during one of these experiments that maybe the blotters didn't work sublingually, and so I tried them bucally. Still weak. Read more online, and now I think my problem is that I have to brush my gums really hard before trying them bucally. Worked a bit better, but still nothing great. It was basically shit like this until I got to the point, maybe five weeks later that I realized I wasn't going to trip and so I stopped.
My side effects at this point would probably be overall fatigue, and mild cognitive problems. I didn't have HPPD or anything and I wasn't hallucinating or anything. My main issue was that I was reckless with my reasoning, I didn't think things through all the way. For example, I was less hesitant to spend money, where as before I was a saving hoarder, and I was eating pretty carelessly too. I had slight depression before this, and although it didn't make it worse, it made it less manageable, and I'd found myself slipping into anxious depressed states more often and more easily. I didn't really realize this for a while after though.
One thing I should add is that I was an everyday pot smoker at the time I was experimenting with the liquid solution 25c-nbome and 4-aco-dmt. I smoked alongside almost every trip which defintely boosted their effects. By the time I was trying the blotter though, I had stopped smoking pot after losing my connection and I really didn't feel like finding a new one. Maybe I was just used to tripping with pot, and mentally, I wasn't meeting the trip expectations I had set before, and maybe this was why I never thought I really tripped with the blotter. Im not sure though since I had also tripped pretty hard while not smoking pot before.
Phenibut:
Sometime after stopping that dumb experiment I decided to try out Phenibut; this was my second mistake I think. I was drug-free at this point, and had put psychedelics behind me for the time being (it had been more than a month since my last trip). So I took 2 grams of Phenibut, waited two hours, and got only a slight change in mood. I had read of people taking 1gram and getting more than desirable effects so I really didn't know what to make of it. I took two more, thinking maybe I just needed more due to natural tolerance (this was my first GABA drug). I had always had a low tolerance to every drug I've tried so I didn't really know why I didn't get much off two grams. After I took some two more though I definitely got some nice effects. I then decided my regular dose to be 4 grams at once after a few dosed experiments. This is a pretty big dose though. My only means for justifying it was that it was the lowest dose that would get me the effects people claimed off .5-2 grams. I thought that if it didn't effect me at dosages lower than that, than it really wasn't harming me. How could it due any harm in at 2-4grams if it wasn't affecting me psychoactivly. this was of course pretty irrational, but it was also my reasoning behind taking the nbome blotters. I thought I had to get the psychoactive effects before I could be harmed by it.
Anyways I went through a lot of phenibut (80ish grams) before I realized it wasn't really doing anything anymore. The feeling I had gotten the first time only happened maybe three times after that. I still got the anxiolytic effects, just not the euphoria. I dosed maybe three times a week for a few weeks then went to once a week.
Smoking Pot Again:
As I mentioned earlier, I had stopped smoking pot before even doing the 25c blotters, and stopped for about 5 months. After smoking agin I noticed it wasn't as immersive as before I stopped. I would still get very high, but not in a complete way. I didn't get the euphoria i would usually get and I didn't get the boost in creativity and what not that it would give me before. Even when it got me so stoned all I did was watch tv and satisfy the munchies, that was a lot better and more full-fulling of an experience than now. Even times where I had taken a month t break and would come back I would get uber baked, now it's almost like back where I picked up again. It's really hard to explain.
I continued smoking though because it was still good enough. my tolerence, however, increased a lot faster than it did before. I was soon smoking bowls and bowls of dank a few times a day (still getting high as fuck) where as 1 gram of dank would last me a month of everyday smoking before (i had really low natural tolerance as I mentioned). The only thing better this time was that I could get really high, and experience virtually no anxiety effects or anti-social effects. I would trade those benefits for all the other aspects of the high I was losing though.
Tripping after 25c and during/after phenibut use:
I have taken low and heroic doses since my experiments with 25c and phenibut, and all have lacked something. I can't trip off low doses anymore, where as before I would get a full experience on low doses, I mean relatively speaking of course. There was always something there even if I didnt trip hard. Now if I take an equally low dose of whatever substance, I don't get that. I get the same level, or even increased, of side effects, but the pleasurable effects aren't there. There's almost not even a hint of a trip. Average doses are the same, with only a bit of the good physical effects. This also not really trippy at all though. Tripping feels very muddy, bleak, and foggy I guess.
I had a 10mg 4-aco-dmt and 3 gram syrian rue trip that went decent but still felt like it had something missing. This was my last real trip I'd say, and it happened during the time I was using phenibut (although I didn't take it during the trip). As I progessed with my phenibut use, my trips (again, never mixed with trips) got bleaker and muddier, so I think the phenibut is what caused my main problem. The feeling that something was "missing" increased as time went on, and so did my phenibut use (until i stopped, but its damage was perhaps not over) so there is a correlation there.
I did 40mg of 4-aco-dmt sometime after (a huge dose) and I tripped pretty hard. The problem is though that it was almost like there was something missing again. Like there was something obstructing the trip, and preventing me from fully being immersed in it. Kind of like I was watching it on tv rather than experiencing it. It's really really hard to describe, but the main thing I'd say is that there is something missing, or that it feels like there is something blocking (like physically in my brain or body) me from getting the level of experience that dose would normally get me. It's cloudy and muggy as well, and full of side-effects but not euphoria.
I later tried acid since then with some friends (maybe a month after the one above), and was VERY dissapointed. My friends tripped hard, and the friend that got it said it was some of the strongest acid he's ever gotten. I tripped, but again it was like tripping with something blocking the good effects. I didn't get any of the revelations or thoughts I would normally have gotten. Thought patterns/trains actually were almost non-existant. It actually dulled my cognitive abilities a lot, where as before my mind would just race and fill with ideas. It was almost like taking acid without any of the psychoactive effects, like at all. Just the physical effects, which were also bleak and "groggy." No euphoria. I actually did "trip" a bit, but there was so much other mental junk and blockage from letting me really trip it felt like.
It wasn't until after I smoked pot that I realized I needed pot to trip. I smoked and it elevated the trip into an actual trip. Almost as if the pot was necessary to reveal the LSD. I didn't smoke until like hr 6 though so it still wasn't a full trip. and still, NO EUPHORIA. and still no revelations, not even small ones. I later smoked pot while taking DOC (weeks after) and it did the same thing.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Summarize:
So overall my trips (as of my last trip a few months ago) feel muddy, instead of clear, and they produce side effects in place of euphoria. Pot helps, but it also comes with drawbacks and I don't want to rely on it to trip. I've been exercising, maintaining a pretty good diet, and taking omega 3's and piracetam. I'm seeing noticeable improvement in my regular life, but I'm not sure as to how it has affected my trips (I want to "check progress" in a month or two since I'm pretty sure I'm getting better). My main issue now it tolerance, and I think if I take enough of a certain drug Ill get a real trip but, I don't want to waste drugs like that, and it could also increase the side effects again.
The last pscyh I've taken is 2CB in November. It was a fun little trip, but it was relatively weak. Besides that it didn't give me the same muddy-effects I got from the trip before that so it shows I'm progressing somewhat I believe. My main issue now is tolerence, and needing weed to fully kick in a trip (which I needed for 2CB). I did take theanine beforehand so maybe it dulled the trip.
Question about Phenethylamines vs Tryptamines and GABA:
I think phenethylamines and LSD seem to affect me less than tryptamines. I've done mescaline, DOC, and acid, and all have been underwhelming. Mushrooms and 4-aco-dmt (last i've tried was 3 months ago) still affect me even in small doses. All of these, again, feel like they're missing something. Alochol and theanine also feel like they're missing a lot. I can still drink and get drunk, but it's not a pleasureable drunk like before, it's dirty if I drink too much. Theanine also has no effect on me. I was wondering if this has anything to do with GABA and the phenibut I abused, because I didn't notice that my 25c blotter trips affected me negatively until I did phenibut and found I had an incredible tolerence to it for some reason.
The reason I think Phenibut is involved is because I read somewhere that marijuana and psychedelics affect GABA somehow. Marijuana is somehow involved with GABA receptors, and that's why you trip harder when you smoke weed. Phenibut affects GABA as well, and since I abused it, it might of damaged those receptors or something.
I have trouble reading I think and writing is harder. It's almost like trying to read and write at a threshold dose of a psychedelic. It's hard to write my ideas out. I heard this is a typical side-effect to bezos so maybe the phenibut is what harmed me more than the 25C, and the 25C issues I had were the catalyst for my phenibut problems. (I'm assuming of course).
I also have this ear problem (maybe tinnitus without ringning noise) that I think came up with when I took 25c or phenibut. I've gone to the doctor's but I didn't get much help, and it's not life-threatening. I can't say though that it was caused by either of those, it just happened around that time. The only thing that could say that was that phenibut would sometimes give me some ear-popping, or muffling sounds.
Questions:
I'd like to know GABA receptors role in psychedlics and marijuana and if the phenibut could have interact with this in any way. I'm almost positive I'd be a lot better had I never done the phenibut. I never really noticed any real problems until after that. Maybe the 25c issues I had led to the phenibut causing more damage. I'm not sure though, since I've never read of people having trouble tripping while withdrawing from bezos or alcohol.
What are some things I can do to speed up my recovery? Piracetam has helped a lot, but I'm not sure what else would give me equally significant help. Would taking 5HTP (or Melatonin) at night make things worse?
Thanks,
anonrocky
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