Can't get high..?

[shibireru]

The evidence which you are citing is... what? Appeals to authority - your authority, specifically?

I'll take anecdotal arguments over "what I'm saying is true because I say so"-style arguments anyday.

In particular, I would like you to substantiate this claim:

The mechanism through which naltrexone helps manage alcohol dependence is not known.

Seems to me that by blocking the pleasureful effects of alcohol, naltrexone discourages addicts from consuming it. There aren't many other hypotheses you could invoke here to explain the therapeutic effect of naltrexone in the treatment of alcohol dependence.

Caffeine most definitely triggers a release of dopamine and norepinephrine at least, and therefore it's only reasonable to expect that it could produce even a noticeable tolerance to at least some of the effects of certain amphetamine-like substances.

 

[shibireru]

Also, the second claim that you make in that paragraph is completely based on anecdotal evidence.

The attitude against anecdote is getting to be rather annoying, by the way. Certainly scientific conclusions shouldn't be predicated on anecdote, but when we suffer from the inability to draw sound conclusions due to a paucity of trustworthy evidence, and yet we nevertheless find ourselves in need of concluding something so that we may venture forward, the reliance upon anecdote becomes acceptable - more so at least than reliance upon wild conjecture and random guesses. We, then, draw provisional conclusions which we intend to replace with conclusions with a stronger foundation in science at a later period.

Anecdote is worth something.

Edit: In a way, you could say that all of science is based on anecdote actually, since in any experiment someone has to perform the observations and make interpretations of the data, which [interpretations] may or may not be highly biased, but whether they are or aren't they are still performed by fallible human minds which is the reason why anecdote is found objectionable in the first place . In science, many anecdotes are collected and concatenated with hard data uninfluenced by personal bias, and upon this aggregate data cognitive transformations and interpolations are performed in accordance with the principles of logic and the result of this process is the scientific conclusion. Even within the realm of science, then, anecdote - or something akin to it - figures quite prominently despite vehement claims to the contrary.

 

[flacky]

Let's take two statements side by side.

The release of these neurotransmitters is a weak secondary effect.

I have experienced far more euphoria with caffeine than I ever did with dextroamphetamine.

The first one can be supported by science, the second one can only be supported by your opinion. Statements supported by opinion do not prove anything.

Anyways, I think we've gone on too long off the topic here. If you would like to continue this discussion by PM feel free to send me one.

 

[shibireru]

The first one can be supported by science, the second one can only be supported by your opinion.

You should recall that I was the first to point out that my arguments were flawed because they made use of anecdote. It seems odd to me that you're going off on this tangent about anecdote when I had already addressed the points which you are now belabouring.

The release of these neurotransmitters is a weak secondary effect.

A weak secondary effect at low doses. If this downstream effect were weak at all doses, I suppose caffeine wouldn't be able to cause panic attacks, caffeine intoxication, mania, psychosis, heart attacks, death...

 

[btrswiet7u4ia]

Oh, I can't get high either, by the way. It's extremely frustrating. My situation is even more grim in that when I first started abusing drugs, my ability to experience pleasure was already greatly impaired on account of a long-standing depression.

My life consists now in sitting around wondering how long it will take for these FUCKING receptors to upregulate and whether or not I will be able to wait that long. In the mean time, I guess it's total boredom and anhedonia for me. Fun.

Depression is a bitch, it's why I started using; and is the reason why I don't regret that decision. It took me close to death, but at least I didn't want to be there.

 

[dharma_bum]

Since my addiction to stimulants (that's as detailed as I feel comfortable with) I can't seem to get any kind of rush at all. I get high per say, but there's no notable euphoric rush.. Is that normal?
This is with my usual ROA - snorting. If I were to smoke it it may be different...
When I was on it (before I quit and went back) it was like every time I used I got this energy rush crazy.. awesome feeling. But now it's just like hardly there.

Has anyone else experienced this? To go back to your drug and have one good go with it and then not feel any rush?



BTW, potency not a factor with me- not street drugs

I don't know your exact DOC, and I have a limited knowledge of the biological and neurological workings of amphetamines even if i did. But I can say that every person who uses a psychoactive must eventually face the same problem you're facing now. Absolutely no drug can be used habitually without some alteration or lessening of effects--I think everyone can agree on that.
Right now, you have a couple of options. You could decide that you've passed the point where you can enjoy or benefit from using this drug like you used to and stop using (or use only on occasion). You could try taking an even longer break than the one you took before. You're right, 8 months is a long time and I would've guessed that anybody's tolerance would be drastically lowed after such a break. But maybe, depending on your body and how long you had been using before, a longer one is necessary to regain effects. You could also increase the amount you normally take. Maybe you'll find that euphoria again. Obviously, though, that's starting on a dangerous path and you'll probably end up in the same place again a short while later.
I wish I could help you more, but I don't think there's a lot to do at this point. Even as a casual user of amphetamines, I've experienced a noticeable decrease in euphoria with persistent use. I think it's just something that an amphetamine user has to be prepared for, and ready to accept when it happens.

 

[Gormur]

sounds like you're burnt out

take a break and see if you feel any better in a week

i have to do that with my stims once in a while, or else i'm all strung out and they've stopped doing what they're supposed to do

also eat a lot of good food. you need fuel to have energy to burn

peace

 

[btrswiet7u4ia]

More fixed it.

 

[btrswiet7u4ia]

It's a weak and stupid thing to do, because any rules you set for yourself are ultimately broken, any boundaries you draw are eventually crossed, and your baseline euphoria is reached at 2, and then 4, and then 6 + lines
and you slip into your tweaker patterns, find yourself twitching, picking at your hair, thinking there are little bugs on stuff when there is NOT. Staying up all night to 'study'
Excusing it as a hiccup
Staying up all weekend partying...by yourself.
Dismiss it
Notice your skin turning yellowish/grey and blame the lighting
Lose 30 lbs and blame it on stress.
It's a slippery slope that I am on...
And I don't really care. Oh well.