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Cannabinoids: Safe Or Unsafe?

Mholtb

Mholtb

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
30
Ok, so all of my friends claim that all the jwh series cannabinoids are unsafe. Though none of them have ever looked at any information about them.

What I'm getting at is, what is your opinion? Safe Or Unsafe?
 
Well, many of the jwh's do contain a napthyl group. This could be problematic if it were to become freed from the rest of the molecule as it is most likely a carcinogen. However, the amount of it in an average dose of jwh-018 would be equivalent to the amount of the same carcinogen found in 1 or 2 cigarettes. So worst case scenario its about as bad as a cigarette.

Also, jwh 250 and some others don't contain the problematic napthyl moiety. JWH-081 has a methoxy group attached to the napthyl which, according to the speculation of some people, keeps the napthalane from becoming free & thus problematic.

All of this is speculation, albeit somewhat educated. Ultimately only time will tell, but with almost all drugs, the dose is what really makes something safe or unsafe, moreso than the chemical itself.
 
Thanks for the reply, that cleared a few things up actually. Also, I didn't realize that jwh-081 had the methoxy attached to the napthyl, thanks for the insite! also I'm from the south :D
 
Mholtb said:
Which would you say are the least forgiving?
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JWH-018 and JWH-073 look like the worst.

They (and possibly other members of the JWH series) are most likely metabolized to epoxides, which are very toxic (highly reactive, the electrophilic carbon of the C-O bond is vulnerable to nucleophilic attack which unravels the epoxide ring).
 
any major dude said:
However, the amount of it in an average dose of jwh-018 would be equivalent to the amount of the same carcinogen found in 1 or 2 cigarettes. So worst case scenario its about as bad as a cigarette.
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Thank you! This is the information I have sought on so many occasions; i.e., inasmuch as we have reason to be concerned about jwh-018's carcinogenesis, is it massively worse than or roughly the same as with tobacco? Every time I asked, if I got a reply it was to say it's impossible to know with existing information. And of course it is, but an educated guess is better than nothing. :)
 
jwh can be an amazing experience or it can suck.
you need to be really careful mixing anything with it. and i mean, like ibuprofen and things like that. a few of my friends have had bad experiences because of it and their afraid of it now. i.e. they did it way too casually. this isnt weed, and you need to take that into consideration. also don't start doing more than once every 3 or so days, because daily users quickly build a resistance.

as for me. i've never gone wrong with it. the high is much more intensive than weed, and it gives you mild open eye visuals (at the 250, and the 018 have with me)
by open eye visuals i mean, the grass looked pink and trees where like dancing around into bizarre fractals. it was pretty awesome.
 
Matsuo Munefusa. said:
cancer-causing
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thats just speculation

Originally Posted by nuke
Metabolism via ring hydroxylation of the naphthyl moiety is not necessarily bad or carcinogenic, for instance see the metabolism of duloxetine. The problem is moreso with the non-etherized compounds for some reason, for instance both duloxetine and propranolol have the naphthol moieties as an ether and are not problematic (that much), but pronethalol is very carcinogenic. For some reason straight carbon chains or no carbon chains are the big problem from naphthalene, which I can't explain at the moment.
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any major dude said:
Well, many of the jwh's do contain a napthyl group. This could be problematic if it were to become freed from the rest of the molecule as it is most likely a carcinogen. However, the amount of it in an average dose of jwh-018 would be equivalent to the amount of the same carcinogen found in 1 or 2 cigarettes. So worst case scenario its about as bad as a cigarette.
Click to expand...

Except the naphthalene in JWH-018 is never freed. We know how it's metabolized now. The naphthalene ring is hydroxylated, then those hydroxylated metabolites are conjugated with glucoronide.

If combustion leads to pyrolysis and freeing of naphthalene vapors, and the total amount of naphthalene in a dose of JWH-018 is equivalent to that found in a cigarette, you're still only receiving a fraction of the amount of each cigarette. The naphthalene in cigarette smoke is not usually considered an important factor in tobacco's carcinogenicity.

The evidence out there leads me to believe JWH-018 would shrink your tumors, not cause them.
 
Coolio said:
Except the naphthalene in JWH-018 is never freed. We know how it's metabolized now. The naphthalene ring is hydroxylated, then those hydroxylated metabolites are conjugated with glucoronide.

If combustion leads to pyrolysis and freeing of naphthalene vapors, and the total amount of naphthalene in a dose of JWH-018 is equivalent to that found in a cigarette, you're still only receiving a fraction of the amount of each cigarette. The naphthalene in cigarette smoke is not usually considered an important factor in tobacco's carcinogenicity.

The evidence out there leads me to believe JWH-018 would shrink your tumors, not cause them.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Any other opinions?
 
Coolio said:
Except the naphthalene in JWH-018 is never freed. We know how it's metabolized now. The naphthalene ring is hydroxylated, then those hydroxylated metabolites are conjugated with glucoronide.

If combustion leads to pyrolysis and freeing of naphthalene vapors, and the total amount of naphthalene in a dose of JWH-018 is equivalent to that found in a cigarette, you're still only receiving a fraction of the amount of each cigarette. The naphthalene in cigarette smoke is not usually considered an important factor in tobacco's carcinogenicity.

The evidence out there leads me to believe JWH-018 would shrink your tumors, not cause them.
Click to expand...

thanks for that info man. apparently i'm not quite up to date on my reading on that subject. Didn't know about the ring hydroxylation etc. Are there any obvious health issues with the hydroxylated metabolites conjugated with glucuronide? I don't immediately see why there would be.

I've seen a lot of studies in which JWH's or other cannabinoids were injected into tumors & caused cell death by apoptosis.
 
any major dude said:
thanks for that info man. apparently i'm not quite up to date on my reading on that subject. Didn't know about the ring hydroxylation etc. Are there any obvious health issues with the hydroxylated metabolites conjugated with glucuronide? I don't immediately see why there would be.

I've seen a lot of studies in which JWH's or other cannabinoids were injected into tumors & caused cell death by apoptosis.
Click to expand...

That's very interesting, i've never read anything about that.
 
I know a guy whos friend went into a coma after two bowls of "K2". He came to about a week later and is showing signs of decreased cognitive function. I'd say it's a coincidence but there's been other stories like that in the news.
 
Thought this might be of interest. By no means shows JWHs are safe, but interesting to see them being used to some positive effect.

(c) Copyright 2010 Obesity, Fitness & Wellness Week via NewsRx.com

2010 SEP 4 - (NewsRx.com) -- Fresh data on terpenes are presented in the report 'Cannabinoids reduce ErbB2-driven breast cancer progression through Akt inhibition.' "ErbB2-positive breast cancer is characterized by highly aggressive phenotypes and reduced responsiveness to standard therapies. Although specific ErbB2-targeted therapies have been designed, only a small percentage of patients respond to these treatments and most of them eventually relapse," researchers in Madrid, Spain report.

"The existence of this population of particularly aggressive and non-responding or relapsing patients urges the search for novel therapies. The purpose of this study was to determine whether cannabinoids might constitute a new therapeutic tool for the treatment of ErbB2-positive breast tumors. We analyzed their antitumor potential in a well established and clinically relevant model of ErbB2-driven metastatic breast cancer: the MMTV-neu mouse. We also analyzed the expression of cannabinoid targets in a series of 87 human breast tumors. Our results show that both Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol, the most abundant and potent cannabinoid in marijuana, and JWH-133, a non-psychotropic CB2 receptor-selective agonist, reduce tumor growth, tumor number, and the amount/severity of lung metastases in MMTV-neu mice. Histological analyses of the tumors revealed that cannabinoids inhibit cancer cell proliferation, induce cancer cell apoptosis, and impair tumor angiogenesis. Cannabinoid antitumoral action relies, at least partially, on the inhibition of the pro-tumorigenic Akt pathway. We also found that 91% of ErbB2-positive tumors express the non-psychotropic cannabinoid receptor CB2," wrote M.M. Caffarel and colleagues, Complutense University.

The researchers concluded: "Taken together, these results provide a strong preclinical evidence for the use of cannabinoid-based therapies for the management of ErbB2-positive breast cancer."

Caffarel and colleagues published their study in Molecular Cancer (Cannabinoids reduce ErbB2-driven breast cancer progression through Akt inhibition. Molecular Cancer, 2010;9():196).
 
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