Can you quit H with a combination of methadone and suboxone

[themystic13]

I posted another thread recently about my gf and I trying to quit H, unsuccessfully. We had a stash of suboxone 8mg strips, waited the 24 hrs and then took our subs. Although we didnt go into preceps, the subs only relieved a few symptoms. I read online that this is common of suboxone, and unlike subuTEX or methadone- it doesnt completely stop all of the withdrawl symptoms.
Anyway after 6 hrs of barley any relief (mostly just the restlessness and muscle spasms remained: of course being the only ones I cant deal with). We waited 6 hrs, taking more subs, and it only just felt the same, so we caved and bought h, and the remaining symptoms just washed away.

A little info- ive been using h for 6 years, quitting for a few periods of time, the longest being 3 months. She's only been on it for 2 years, but consecutive. We do about gram a day of crappy inland tar. Its very low quality compared to most. Probably cut several times with what I would guess would be a 1-5% purity left. But we purposely keep our tolerances down so it isnt even more miserable to kick.

Id heard about people taking brown WHILE on subs to keep the edge off. But this doesn't seem right.

SO MY REAL QUESTION IS- can I take liquid methadone for the 4 or 5 days that it takes to get the worst of the gunk out, and when you naturally start to feel better (if it were cold turkey) then after a few days of methadone (also being because I dont just want to become addicted to the methadone, trading one habit for a WORSE one)
After a few days of methadone- can I then take my suboxone, since the underlying withdrawls should be over with by that time and I wont feel so crappy after I take It?

The only info I can find about it are of people trying to quit methadone with subs, not using them together.

Any help, especially from personal experience would be much appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[T. Calderone]

It's up to you how you decide to do it, and I think you already have an idea when you finish taking any opiate you will feel some discomfort. It's not necessary to use methadone and subs together. Use one or the other until you jump off completely.

 

[The Doc.]

Suboxone works really good for opiaye withdrawals its the same as subutex I can assure you its all about finding the right dose. I'm on 0.3mgs every 6 hours and I have no symptoms at all.
Have you been going back and forth between subutex and heroin? If so that may be why these sub's never worked as well for you as the last time and why you had to go pick up heroin.

 

[neversickanymore]

medications for acute opiate detox

The medications I would explore the use of for detox would be:
>Clonidine< DOSED EVER FOUR HOURS..

one of either
>NEURONTIN< >HERE< >HERE<
OR >Lyrica<
OR >phenibut<

>A BENZO BUT JUST AT NIGHT<
>a nsaid<
>melatonin<
tylenol
Senokot S is a stool softener and laxative. If you do not want the laxative you can go for strait stool softenerDioctyl sodium sulfosuccinate.

(Opi Withdrawal) what is the best comfort meds for opiate w/d?

Your Personal Opiate Withdrawal Arsenal

 

[The Doc.]

I posted another thread recently about my gf and I trying to quit H, unsuccessfully. We had a stash of suboxone 8mg strips, waited the 24 hrs and then took our subs. Although we didnt go into preceps, the subs only relieved a few symptoms. I read online that this is common of suboxone, and unlike subuTEX or methadone- it doesnt completely stop all of the withdrawl symptoms.
Anyway after 6 hrs of barley any relief (mostly just the restlessness and muscle spasms remained: of course being the only ones I cant deal with). We waited 6 hrs, taking more subs, and it only just felt the same, so we caved and bought h, and the remaining symptoms just washed away.

A little info- ive been using h for 6 years, quitting for a few periods of time, the longest being 3 months. She's only been on it for 2 years, but consecutive. We do about gram a day of crappy inland tar. Its very low quality compared to most. Probably cut several times with what I would guess would be a 1-5% purity left. But we purposely keep our tolerances down so it isnt even more miserable to kick.

Id heard about people taking brown WHILE on subs to keep the edge off. But this doesn't seem right.

SO MY REAL QUESTION IS- can I take liquid methadone for the 4 or 5 days that it takes to get the worst of the gunk out, and when you naturally start to feel better (if it were cold turkey) then after a few days of methadone (also being because I dont just want to become addicted to the methadone, trading one habit for a WORSE one)
After a few days of methadone- can I then take my suboxone, since the underlying withdrawls should be over with by that time and I wont feel so crappy after I take It?

The only info I can find about it are of people trying to quit methadone with subs, not using them together.

Any help, especially from personal experience would be much appreciated. Thanks guys.

Hey man that doesn't make sense if your taking methadone you won't be having any withdrawals or getting any detox over with so if you take methadone for the first week it doesn't mean you skip the worst part of withdrawals( meaning the first week) it just means you've put the withdrawal on hold for a week then once you stop the methadone the withdrawal will kick in. Same with suboxone they are both powerful opiates suboxone is even stronger than methadone so as long as your taking either of those you are just putting the withdrawals on hold for a week you don't start detoxing until you have no opiates in your body at all. You may as well take heroin for a week instead of methaonde cause your not getting any "gunk out" whatever that means while on methadone if anything your putting more gunk into your body as methadone/suboxone and heroin are both opiates they both work on the same area of the brain your body is addicted to opiates in general not any specific one so if your detoxing off heroin taking methaonde wont let your body clear out the opiates or detox at all because your still using drugs so once you stop the methadone or suboxone wahyever it is your taking you haven't gotten over anything at all let alone the worst part its just beginning Would be nice though if we could just take methadone for a month and feel fine then stop and voila your detoxed sigh the world doesn't work that way though.

 

[_DankOpiAmp_]

I was of the understanding that methadone was stronger and longer lasting than heroin and therefore the withdrawals would last ever longer and be no less severe if you were on enough to make the switch. It is akin to eating meth shards to come off of Adderall, it isn't really progress.

 

[The Doc.]

Yes that's true but if tapering will still be better than quitting heroin cold turkey.
Some people think taking methadone or suboxone is detoxing off heroin/opiates but really your getting yourself more hooked to opiates a lot of the time.

 

[MizzCharmz]

Methadone has a long half life in your system. So if you get past those 5 days with liquid Methadone, you would have to wait 48-72 hours to take the suboxane or you risk throwing yourself into withdrawal.

I would pick one or the other. Not both

 

[The Doc.]

Yea you haven't seen ANY threads about people who mix the two because its a retarded thing to do either your blocking the methadone By taking the the subutex first or your throwing yourself into precipitated withdrawal by being high on methadone and taking subutex/suboxone. You just can't win.

 

[themystic13]

No, ive only used suboxone to try to quit. And havent used it at all up until our last attempt to quit. And there is a difference between suboxone and subutex, its the naloxone- which is what causes precips and in the past (many that ive talked to agree) subutex rids ALL symtoms while suboxone only rids or lessens a few

 

[The Doc.]

Naloxone does not cause it the bupe itself does. I know people who have gone into precipitated withdrawal from taking subutex.
The naloxone is inactive and only has a half life of one hour anyways but naloxone cannot overpower buprenorphine which is why naloxone shots won't bring a person ODing on Buprenorphine out of it and save them the bupe clings to the receptors too tightly. Its a myth the naloxone does stuff like that even a lot of doctors don't know that.

I've shot up suboxone and subutex and believe me there is no difference between the two. Yes there is naloxone in sub's but it doesn't do anything because the half life is an hour and it can't compete for the opiate receptors like bupe can which is why you can shoot suboxone without going Into withdrawal.

Lots of people think oh its got narcan in it so it can't be as good or my doctor told me the naloxone causes precipitated withdrawal and makes it so I can't shoot it up so I better get some subutex instead. This just isn't true if you took subutex (yes subutex not suboxone!) while on dope or methadone you would be thrown into withdrawal so bad you will want to die from the buprenorphine ripping the other opiates off the receptors and replacing the other opiates with bupe. But bupe takes about an hour to cross the BBB so for an hour you will be rolling around sick as shit until the bupe starts to make you feel better after about an hour. Its not the naloxone that causes that or the blocking effect from subutex/suboxone its the buprenorphine itself being a unique opiate that binds to the opiate receptors so tight nothing else can attach themselves and it will kick any other opiates ass if they are on the receptors and push them off causing you to go into a state of withdrawal for about an hour.

 

[MizzCharmz]

I personally prefer subutex to suboxane. I snort them for a high but also take orally. Suboxane keeps me up all hours and makes me sweat. Subutex does not. I've never used methadone to detox so I can't really tell u if its better or not

 

[Toz]

Use methadone and taper with that. Do not use subutex/subuxone after using methadone though, it will send you into precipitated withdrawal hell even if you take 3 days after taking methadone because of it's long half-life.

Avoid benzos
Avoid lyrica/neurontin
To be honest just avoid all gabaergics like the plague.

If you feel like you absolutely need more relief only use these drugs for a few days at most. The withdrawal they cause will make heroin seem like a walk in the park.

Take your time with the methadone taper. Too fast of a taper will only result in a debilitating post acute withdrawal syndrome and thus a very likely relapse to heroin.

edit: when I say take your time I really mean it, taper for months if it's needed and don't push yourself. You will get there eventually and it's better to take it slow than to try to be a hero and just stop abruptly. I know you wrote you don't want to be addicted to methadone but you are already addicted to opiates, whichever one you use, it doesn't matter.

 

[The Doc.]

I personally prefer subutex to suboxane. I snort them for a high but also take orally. Suboxane keeps me up all hours and makes me sweat. Subutex does not. I've never used methadone to detox so I can't really tell u if its better or not

What it might be is your allergic to naloxone cause in most people the naloxone should just bounce around unable to attach to any receptors due to bupe binding tighter to them than naloxone does then with its short half life the naloxone is excreted out of the body without us ever feeling its presence. But people who are allergic can have a reaction to it and feel the way you did for quite some time after taking it. Mabye that's what is going on with the OP too cause subutex and Suboxone both work the same for withdrawals/pain relief for normal people there is no difference in how it holds you over.

 

[mostly-human]

My own experience:

Coming off fairly substantial daily habit (heroin), first day on suboxon I was only allowed 8mg (you can increase after day one, but this was the maximum allowed first dose) and this really really didn't do the trick, I felt better - absolutely, but very much still had withdrawal symptoms; sweats, aches, etc.

The next day I got 16mg and was able to go to work and function, I still felt pretty awful, generally speaking, after that I took 12mg each day for about a week, by the end of the week I felt pretty decent. After that I fairly rapidly dropped 1-2mg ever few days until I reached a 4mg dose and stayed on that for quite a while, eventually tapering off.


Anyway - my point is - I think you'll feel crappy no matter how you do it, you're coming off you DOC, unto something else - a maintenance drug - and it won't be the same and it won't quite hit all the right spots.

From my own experience and from the experience of others I've known, when it comes to suboxone (which I strongly recommend over methadone) - it will take a few days before you 'level out' on it, get a good dose and basically start feeling 'normal'. But once you do, you can totally resume a functional life, albeit slightly duller than your sober self.

Methadone is a serious addiction, in my opinion you're worse off addicted to this than heroin, it's ridiculously difficult to come off, I think this should be a last resort, basically - if you reach a stage in your life where you give up on getting sober, but are done with the hassle of obtaining an illegal narcotic; then methadone will keep you stoned without all the drama.

 

[MizzCharmz]

What it might be is your allergic to naloxone cause in most people the naloxone should just bounce around unable to attach to any receptors due to bupe binding tighter to them than naloxone does then with its short half life the naloxone is excreted out of the body without us ever feeling its presence. But people who are allergic can have a reaction to it and feel the way you did for quite some time after taking it. Mabye that's what is going on with the OP too cause subutex and Suboxone both work the same for withdrawals/pain relief for normal people there is no difference in how it holds you over.

I found out that im allergic from a dr today when I went to get a script... crazy, who knew