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can someone offer advice..relapse after a year clean

P

piebald

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
403
Location
new england
i worked so hard to get clean off opiates. had to move away and start a new life and put in sooo much fucking work to be sober again. then someone offered me a few percocet..and i said yes..for the last few months ive been using liquid oxy, morphine etc i would say about 3-4 days a week. Stopped working out, started smoking again, having the dreams about drugs again.

Im not physically dependent but i will tell you that yesterday morning i woke up and had very very mild withdraw symptoms. it was enough to scare the hell out of me. I guess my question is this...should i try to deal with this myself or should i ask for help?? I would like to think i can keep this from getting bigger, but i know that may just be the addict part talking..giving me the go ahead to keep using. I guess im just looking for any help from anyone who has been through the recovery/relapse thing. Do i try to do it by myself? or start the whole rehab process all over??i really dont want to do that..if your not physically addicted CAN will power be enough?
 
hey piebald

sorry to hear about your troubles...

the best advice I can offer is that you need to ask for some help. have you attended NA meetings before?
 
yes i have been to NA. i dont know why but it just was never my thing. maybe i should try again. I dont want to sound like a jerk but is it possible that NA isnt for some people? maybe i didn't keep with it long enough..i dont know. i just feel like such a asshole. Im mad at myself for being so self assured that i was"cured" or whatever. I let my guard down and i can feel those same old behavior patterns creeping back in. Like i have the day off today and im just sitting here..no energy..no nothing...in the back of my mind wondering if my friend might get something tonight. uggghhhhh.
 
I quit using myself, but I have attended many AA/NA meetings with my friends, one of whom is still using, but a very small amount and is on meds for his mental well-being. I know AA &NA would never work for me from just the beginning, I don't buy their higher power speak. I also don't accept their it's OK to "fall off the wagon" from time to time BS either, as for myself while I feel it has been (so far) ok to quit smoking & then begin again 20 times before I quit a thing like cigarettes I know that for my addiction (meth) I really had to hate it & hate it more than anything else (except maybe nazi's). Doesn't really sound like you hate your drug yet...What I like to do in your case is dose myself with something else & put your current problem out of your immediate focus.
 
hmmmmm..well maybe thats why i didnt like NA. I grew up a fundamentalist christian household..not like "Westboro Baptist"level nuts..but pretty heavy duty. I left the church when i was 18 and havent been back. NA reminded me to much of that. I tried it and im not discounting it to anyone else; it obviously works for some people.
As far as that idea of HATING your drug..your right ive never hated opiates. I love them. the whole time i was clean i think it wasn't even real now. I had absolutely NO access to them. I got myself thinking i was sober and over everything and i think it was only a matter of access, not real recovery, because as soon as a doorway opened i went down it again. I dont know that i will ever hate opiates.
I remember a friend telling me he knew he would be ok after he was able to dump a bottle of dilaudid down the toilet. im not at that point, no.
putting my problem out of focus is how i got INTO it in the first place i think.
 
I'm not being condescending or judging..
I've been where you are..I know what you're saying.
Because of that, I just have this undeniable urge to say..

You kinda already know the answer to this.. don't you?
You know if you have the willpower to stop.
You seem pretty smart..so-
I think you know what I'm trying to say..right?

<3token
 
If you are having withdrawal symptoms, then you are physically dependent: your body needs the drug to feel "well" or "normal." They may not be full-blown like someone who was using greater amounts than you and at a greater frequency, but they are still present, and the dichotomy you've created between someone who is and is not physically dependent is a false one. A period of three to four months of drug use is a significant relapse: it's not just a slip, it's a return to the active life of an addict. You need to be prepared to ask yourself some difficult questions.

What program did you have in place in the past before your relapse? What elements of this program worked and what did not? These are the questions you need to ask yourself. If your program did not include any peer support (and for me, 12 Step programs are simply that: a form of peer support), then you are just "white knuckling" it which inevitably leads to relapse.

I'm going to put this out there and you can take it or leave it: I find that many addicts when they say that 12 Step programs are "not for me" they are looking for permission to use. They have what is known as a "reservation." Does that make sense? Many addicts make NA/AA much more complicated than it needs to be, because at the end of the day, NA/AA is simply a group of men and women who provide support to one another in their efforts to achieve and sustain recovery. That's really it. Perhaps if you modified your expectations you would get more out of it.
 
discouraging and defeating. remember who your audience is!.

Manage your substance abuse or seak spirituality independently.

If you can't manage an existance in a world with either substances or spirtuality then existence may not be for you.
 
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Thanks missy..i have been using on and off for 2 months. but i guess if i did feel even small WD that means im on my way.
To get clean the first time i used an outpatient program that combined individual and group therapy and suboxone. I think im most comfortable with one on one stuff. i have a difficult time in a group setting.

I have to say that i don't exactly agree with your thought that all people who don't subscribe to NA are looking for permission to use. that statement reminds me of WHY i don't like NA. In my experience NA can be dogmatic and dismissive towards people who question the program.
I do have some hang up's about NA that may have prevented me from getting more out of it thats true. My "reservations" about NA may seem foolish..i don't want to become part of a "recovery community." i have a huge hang up about that stuff that maybe i need to get over. I guess i could give it another shot and try to see for what it is on a very basic level like you said..a group of people there to help each other.
 
Spooky Snacks said:
Recovery is a complete and utter waste of time.

Manage your substance abuse or seak spirituality independently.

If you can't manage an existance in a world with either substances or spirtuality then existence may not be for you.
Click to expand...

i guess this is more my truth. even if i try to go back to NA i cant see myself being open to its philosophy. its like "church for drug addicts" ...i think there are other ways to find balance and be healthy but maybe im just kidding myself.
 
piebald said:
Thanks missy..i have been using on and off for 2 months. but i guess if i did feel even small WD that means im on my way.
To get clean the first time i used an outpatient program that combined individual and group therapy and suboxone. I think im most comfortable with one on one stuff. i have a difficult time in a group setting.

I have to say that i don't exactly agree with your thought that all people who don't subscribe to NA are looking for permission to use. that statement reminds me of WHY i don't like NA. In my experience NA can be dogmatic and dismissive towards people who question the program.
I do have some hang up's about NA that may have prevented me from getting more out of it thats true. My "reservations" about NA may seem foolish..i don't want to become part of a "recovery community." i have a huge hang up about that stuff that maybe i need to get over. I guess i could give it another shot and try to see for what it is on a very basic level like you said..a group of people there to help each other.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. But you also said that you didn't like group therapy. Is it possible that you tend to isolate (which can also be a way in which you give yourself permission to use)? The recovery community is whatever you make it: it can be you and one other person that you trust and you can call when you want to use. Very few people make it without some form of peer support. Everyone needs someone to talk to, even you, you're here at Bluelight. So you're looking for someone who gets it. Now it needs to be a person near you that you can call or meet up with when you want to use and the addict in you is telling you to go ahead and do it.

Clearly your way isn't working for you. And you've said so yourself when you said that you never really felt like you were sober, you simply didn't have access to drugs. At least you're being honest.

If you do decide to return to NA, I would give AA a try this time. There tends to be more sobriety at an AA meeting.
 
yes i am really really introverted..is this a way for me to get "permission to use"? I don't think so but being introverted is a quality that does exacerbate everything.Im not comfortable in groups (recovery and therapy are often groups) and i like being alone (freedom to use drugs) i got on bluelight for the first time way back right when i was quitting and its great to have this type of platform to interact with people.

I had a few "real people" to talk to but one sort of faded away and the other person was the one who just friggin gave me the drugs! the irony!
so as far as support goes i stopped all therapy in september and was busy with work, new boyfriend all this other stuff. i didn't want to think or talk about drugs anymore. i just wanted to move on. and yeah im realizing that part (not ALL because i did work really fucking hard) of my sobriety was the fact that i was in a new town with new people and simply had NO access to drugs.
I dont really have anyone to talk to in my life right now that has been there, i do have supportive friends but no one that gets it..

.i just wanna get thru this without all the bells and whistles, affirmations,realizations,admissions and assorted cathartic psychoses of the NA circus. i guess for me it feels like the more i talk about it the more of my identity it consumes. addressing it outside of here has been challenging.
 
I dont want to offend anyone, but my belief is that the 12 step program is complete bullshit. You have to believe in god for it to work? What if you're an atheist? It wouldn't work for me.

Also, you just need to think about your health. I managed to quit snorting crap that way. I was very paranoid about damaging my cardiovascular system, that, even though I liked the stims, I just fucking never touched the shit again after I realized what it was doing to me.

Don't know if the same thing can be applied to opiates, but try and think of it that way. What do you value more? Your health? Or having fun? I know what I value more. I can't afford to get addicted to bullshit anymore, I have responsibilities, don't you?

Plus, you can have fun by doing other stuff.

Leave the smack alone for good if you know you can't control your use.
 
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BluLait said:
I dont want to offend anyone, but my belief is that the 12 step program is complete bullshit. You have to believe in god for it to work? What if you're an atheist? It wouldn't work for me.
Click to expand...

You don't have to believe in god in order for AA/NA to help you stay clean/sober. In my opinion, that's a justification that non-believers use to try and excuse themselves from an additional type of treatment. Are a lot of people in AA/NA religious and does it affect the way they recover? Sure. And AA/NA literature does have a theistic feel to it. AA literatrue, however, also states that its members are not expected to follow the 12 steps to a T. As well, most, if not all, regular members would be proud of the atheist/agnostic for attending meetings and they would first encourage him to try and stay clean/sober, and only help him with his faith if he shows interest. Some people go to the meetings and don't even get sponsors or do the steps; just being around other people fighting the same fight is good enough.

AA/NA is far from perfect, but it's "pretty good" at helping people. One thing I would suggest, though, is that drug-addicts attend AA if they worry about NA being triggering (NA triggers me, AA does not) or dealers hanging out in the NA parking lots (rare, but it does happen).


To piebald, I am gutted to hear about this. You were always such a strong person. I'm not let down or disappointed, just kind of sad that you're back in battle. I would suggest that you go back and read some of your posts from the past 1-2 years in this forum and try and listen to your own advice. I remember when you had an exchange with captainballs, and in that you typed up a lot of quality stuff.

if your not physically addicted CAN will power be enough?
Click to expand...

For me, it always was. I hate withdrawal at least as much as the next guy. I would rather be absolutely miserable and not going through that than back in the opiate lifestyle.
 
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^^^ Thanks so much! you got me. I was wondering if anyone would remember some of the stuff i wrote. Im realizing and beginning to understand the FULL spectrum of this problem. I am NOT currently physically addicted. Im on the line though. and I totally agree, i would rather be miserable than living the opiate addict.
 
When I came back to bluelight in late 2009 I had been off of opiates for about a year. I was posting here to try and help people get through their addiction related problems. A few months later I was given a free bottle of almost 90 Lortabs. I was dumb enough to think that I could go back into light usage and I did keep it light for a couple months, but eventually it led to a complete and all-out year and a half of relapse.

Anyway, I finally managed to quit again back in August. When I was in the terrible first days of withdrawal, the best I could really do to help myself was read about helping myself on the internet. I was here on bluelight reading a thread about withdrawal or PAWS or something, thinking that it was some really solid advice, when I stumbled across a post of my own that I had completely forgotten about. It was a really level-headed outline of how I had gotten through withdrawal and become a new person who was no longer defined by opiate addiction. The irony was almost too much, but it did give me some perspective on my situation, and my own ability to overcome it.


That was seven months ago now and I'm basically back at that starting point, only with a few important amendments. I now know not only the mechanisms of drug addiction and the means of overcoming it, but I also know the mechanisms of relapse, its dangers and the ways of avoiding it.


I suppose my point is that you need to break out of the opiate womb again. Not only is it completely possible, but the benefits will be stronger than ever. No matter the duration of time, a few months, a year, a couple years, a decade, you can always look back and say that you are fundamentally better than you were before.

To summarize into a single aphorism: With effort, improvement is unavoidable.
 
thanks batman. i can say now that im beginning to understand the "relapse" part. and i like you last sentence. and i also dont want to be defined by opiate addiction either...
 
An extremely positive aspect to NA/AA is that it really isn't about religion. Nothing in the program mandates that you adhere to a higher power or subscribe to religious beliefs. In fact, none of the 12 steps are requirements - rather, they are suggestions.

The underlying concept behind the steps is to identify the root cause(s) or our self-destructive tendencies. Drugs are but a mere symptom of a cluster of maladaptations to the greater world that, until I removed the drugs and alcohol, went unnoticed by me.
At one point, I had three years of continuous sobriety and relapsed. Some choose to lament, saying "I lost all that time!" But really, you haven't lost anything. If anything, you've gained some self-assurance in knowing that it IS possible for you to live without opiates. That's a huge step, because in the throes of despair, many us believe that without the drug, we simply could not go on.

You rode that sobriety horse for a while and fell off. It happens. What you choose to do now will determine how problematic your present situation becomes. In my experience, when I've had to question whether or not I'd be able to do it myself, the result was always that I ended up not being able to do it of my own free will. As others have stated, there are plenty of alternative options to NA/AA; I choose to go to these meetings and work the steps because for me, it was the only thing that worked. And if it means re-routing my life to one of generosity, self-understanding and a decent level of serenity as opposed to loneliness, self-loathing and despair, I will go by what ever means are necessary to achieve that outcome - the same effort as when I was sick and needed to cop and would go to whatever lengths were necessary in order to do so.

I know that if I adopt an attitude different than this, I cannot sustain a clear mind for very long. I used to tell myself when relapses happened, "Well, there's always NA..."
The sad fact is, though, that nothing is guaranteed when I pick up again. I could, by all means, end up dead in several weeks. Hopefully you won't give yourself too much time to investigate how much more you can fight it out this time around. The most important thing to remember about the action you take to address your relapse is that it be taken as immediately as possible.

Relapse does not equal failure. It sure as hell represents an opportunity, though.
I admire your asking for help on this issue; few would have the courage to admit that they needed help under such circumstances. It appears to be how we are wired.

Keep in touch! I wish you the best in deciding what direction to take...

~ vaya
 
^^^thanks VAYA you have explained NA in a way that makes more sense...and the underlying idea of "examination" is the KEY i think. I was hesitant to open this thread because in the last year ive posted alot in regards to my sobriety...and i have failed, and im only now beginning to grasp the scope and depth of this whole process.

"it appears to be how we are wired"....that is the truth!!!.

On the bright side i havent used in 5 days! my use was not severe enough to warrant WDs or PAWS and am clear headed and functional. Im on the edge and im taking this very seriously.

i also like your analogy about the 'whatever means necessary' feeling..i used to apply that to finding drugs; as im sure any addict can relate to..if i can use that idea and apply it to my sobriety ill be all set. Thanks vaya
 
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I can understand now you feel. I keep my own use managed, but I've never had drug cravings and I have no family history of addiction or substance abuse. I use when I have something to use, but I keep it down to weekends or something like that. When I run out I run out and I'm OK.

Addiction is a compulsion disease that will trick you into believing you can manage your use or what have you. You probably know deep down whether you can use responsibly or whether you need to be abstinent. Some people find group therapy to be great, but I'm like you: extremely introverted. I hate groups. I always use alone or with my wife at the most. I'm honest about my use with friends and family, and I even have one friend I tell every time I use IV drugs and he keeps a log of it. He's very conservative about drug use and even he has never said I use too frequently. I use him because he's outside the grips of MY compulsions/addictions (if I have any) and so he is likely to honestly tell me if I'm falling into the abyss.

Remember you always have a group here. Best of luck to you.
 
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