Skywolf440
Greenlighter
Hi everyone I heard that meth HCl can't be more than 92% pure. Is this true, if so why can't it be 100% pure? I tried looking on Google but it kept showing stuf about braking bad and I've never watched that show.
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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
Can meth be more than 92% pure?
- Thread starter Skywolf440
- Start date
Deleted member 290563
Greenlighter
meth Hcl can be higher than 92. up to 99.99999This sounds like the MDMA hcl is only 86% argument, which just means only 86% is MDMA while the rest is HCL. It's likely 92% meth by weight and 8% HCL when comparing freebase to salt dose, but no one has freebase meth so it really doesn't matter. Same goes for MDMA
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
They are probably trying to infer that 8% weight is the hydrochloride salt. It can be 100% pure.
C10H15N vs HCl
time to do some molar math!
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Guessing the 92% purity comes from the fact that the HCl salt of methamphetamine is pretty strongly hydroscopic, so it adds a bit of water weight. So I guess its possible to have highly pure methamphetamine HCl that is still only 92% pure cause of the water. The sulphate salt is apparently less hydroscopic but also has a higher melting point so it doesn't vape well
https://chemistry.mdma.ch/hiveboard/crystal/000497217.html
phuckingnutz
Bluelighter
Yep, your math is right.
Probably the Urban Legend rule which states if you hear it it's true.
I did the numbers every which way and couldn't find a rhyme or reason for the 92% either.
However the MDMA math seemed pretty close. I had always wondered why they touted 86% as top grade gear as far as MDMA goes.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
I will deduce that the 92% figure is pretty much bullshit.
Crystal meth is still an incredibly strong drug when uncut.BurritoJimmy
Bluelighter
Blue sky is 99.1% pure.
Tubbs
Bluelight Crew
---> Neuroscience & Pharmacologymostly-human
Bluelighter
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- Nov 5, 2005
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It seems like semantics. But obviously you can get ~100% Meth HCL - what you think about that, in relation to Meth Base - I don't know, but I think that's a different kind of discussion and really it's never what someone means when they're talking about the purity of street drugs.
Tubbs
Bluelight Crew
There's always going to be impurities, just like any other synthetic chemical.Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
Also, why would you say that nobody ever has meth base? I always see it as base before its turned into a salt, unless dissolving metal acidic type reductions are used on P2NP after borohydride reduction of the double bond.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
It's a question of semantics here, whether you are using freebase methamphetamine as your standard or methamphetamine HCl respectively.
Given that methamphetamine freebase is an oily liquid at STP, most people compare to the solid methamphetamine HCl. I don't think people sell the freebase of meth/amphetamine commercially, it's almost always a salt.Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
Never had the dubious honor of trying street meth. I've never seen the point in trying to find any either, given that street product is bound to be cut, and it'd be a waste when I could take my pick from racemic or D-meth at will instead of using the solvents to clean up existing stuff and doing analysis of the product, and never have to worry about doing business with some morally dubious, oleaginous, weaselly little scrote who is out for as much money as he can swindle into the pockets of his hoodie, bugger that sideways with a rusty fork. And just as bad, potentially being expected to spend time in their company, make small talk etc.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
All the street meth where I live is mostly uncut - too much competition among dealers I think.Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
Too much? how so? surely that should be a good thing if its driving quality up?
sekio
Bluelight Crew
That's what I mean, if you cut your product you're not going to have very frequent customers because there's just so fucking much meth. Lots of competition and a lack of anything "stronger" to cut it with (a la fentanyl in the heroin trade) means methamphetamine of reasonable purity from China is all over.Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
Wow, the chinese chemists can figure that one out for themselves? or do they need a step by step walkthrough for a P2P synthesis, or a Birch reduction of PSE
OK - in medicinal chemistry, an addition salt is produced as the dose-unit because it is easier to mix with excipients and because it is more stable. Indicated dose is that of the freebase but the material is pure. It has to be - impure material has unreliable kinetics. As sekio said it is semantics but if you feel the need for a full commentary I refer you to:
'Excipient Applications in Formulation Design and Drug Delivery' edited by Ajit S Narang, Sai H S. Boddu
'Developing Solid Oral Dosage Forms: Pharmaceutical Theory and Practice' edited by Yihong Qiu, Yisheng Chen, Geoff G.Z. Zhang, Lawrence Yu, Rao V. Mantri
'How to Develop Robust Solid Oral Dosage Forms: From Conception to Post-Approval' By Bhavishya Mittal
Although this is more a topic for a compounding pharmacist, anyone with the appropriate post-grad will have been bored to tears writing about binders, releasers, antixoidents, lubricants, colouring agents, stabilisers and so on. If you ever suffer insomnia, read about how calculations of v-mixing are my top top as a hypnotic. It will never be interesting and I spare a thought for the people sat making BNF specials from dawn to dusk. On a par with paint drying.