• H&R Moderators: streaM Freak

Can I stay clean without NA/AA/12-steps ?

w0w0mg

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
848
Location
In Jail, NC
Hey guys, I'm trying to stay clean and I am wondering if it is infact possible to stay sober WITHOUT
any NA/AA or 12 STEP meetings? I never got into it due to social anxiety and over all discomfort.
I tried alot of those meetings - Even celebrate recovery but I felt like I end up USING because I get so
over whelmed...

Is there anyone personal experience of anyone maintaining clean time without "recovery" ?

Thanks - xoxo
 
Yes, AA/NA is not the only way even though I go. It is difficult for me to make recommendations other than on the medication side of things (are you using opioids? Suboxone/Methadone are options there as are detoxes but I feel like 7 day "spin drys" don't work and for you a long term program would cause you social anxiety). Can you at least go see a counselor (not trying to say "at least" to put you down just trying to gauge how anxious you are)? Some form of social support is usually used as well.
 
I am on day 3 of heroin withdrawal currently.
I am doing at home Cold Turkey detox.
I have been to many long term treatment programs in the past.
I got out of prison 6 months ago and started back doing heroin.
But I am seriously sick and tired of being sick and tired - as they say in NA/AA.

I will most likely try some kind of outpatient when I feel better though.
I just feel uncomfortable attending AA and NA meetings.
 
I am on day 3 of heroin withdrawal currently.
I am doing at home Cold Turkey detox.
I have been to many long term treatment programs in the past.
I got out of prison 6 months ago and started back doing heroin.
But I am seriously sick and tired of being sick and tired - as they say in NA/AA.

I will most likely try some kind of outpatient when I feel better though.
I just feel uncomfortable attending AA and NA meetings.

First let me warn you I am struggling as well; I do not have long term sobriety but have been going to meetings and am enrolling in a methadone program. I am on the same roller coaster you are on- but I have seen and do know (and have a sponsor) that has been sucessful at this long term. There are guys here like Captain Heroin and Manboychef who are far more sober than me (as well as others). But I will do what I can.....

Have you been on suboxone? They work well if you can get on them but they are long term (usually, you could also cop 1 or 2 and it would probably end your acute WDs) maintenence usually. Just don't let docs push you into ridiculous doses. They probably would have worked for me if not for chronic pain. Methadone is another option (I'd say the bigger gun) of maintenence and detox. Those are medical options. Also, you could try some immodium (loperamide) but I wouldn't say in the insane doses some here have taken for WDs (maybe a little bit more than it says on the box but I've seen people here take 40-70 a day- I personally wouldn't do that). Clonidine is very easy to be prescribed (for anxiety if you can call your pcp) and helps; but if you take high doses you have to taper or you can have rebound anxiety etc. Gabapentin or lyrica are godsends for RLS and many symptoms (gabapentin is not scheduled and lyrica is schedule 4- I know gabapentin is prescribed off label for anxiety). Benzos are sometimes recommended but you could end up with a whole new problem there. If I could magically give you a package to detox:

gabapentin- dose will vary a little, handfuls at a time don't work as your body can only utilize so much at once. But maybe 300mgs 8x a day for 3-4 days, then 300mgs 3x a day for 2 days then 300mgs before bed for a couple days

clonidine- 0.2 every 6 hours after trying 0.1 (some people get real woozy) and 0.4 maybe before bed for 3-4 days, 0.1 every 6 hours for 2 days, 0.1 twice a day for 2 days, 0.05 twice a day for two days

immodium ad- as needed for GI problems

multi-vitamins and plenty of fluids

OR

Suboxone- day 1-8mgs, days 2-3 6mgs, day 4- 4mgs, day 5- 2 mgs, days 6-7 1mg

still multi's and fluids

Then there is the loperamide method but many have said it is unsafe even though it works and is OTC.

Hopefully someone better at this will chime in. But clonidine alone is very useful and easy to get if you have anxiety. But when high doses are used it should be tapered although it would not be a long taper just a few days.
 
I have been on methadone (MMT) and suboxone (taper attempt) and it failed for me, I figured to just do a full blown CT (cold turkey) attempt - and I feel like it's doing alot better than actually tapering.
For me, personally, when I do an attempt with a taper, it never make it thru the whole taper and end up relapsing.
I have only taken 4mg of immodium daily for the lovely shits and 800mg motrin for pain/aches twice daily.
I am feeling better than I felt the first 2 days so I'm thinking by tomorrow or the next I should be in the clear.
Who knows though, I am scared that the anxiety will return which makes me relapse the most.

The only WD symptoms I'm really feeling at the moment is chills and sweats, nothing too major.
 
Good- you are handling it well then. I probably misread and thought of the normal "I can't take this I'm going to DIE!" opioid WD post. You are past the hump tomorrow. Everyday will be better if you don't use (same for me even though we are in a little diff. situation).
 
Check out SMART recovery. They have CBT-based meetings where nobodoy judges and clean time isn't counted as if it were the holy grail, but peoples'well-being is rated. I've seen people go to NA for 4 years, be clean...and miserable. Whereas O've seen people attend SMART meetings, get clean quick and have some balance by leading a normal life and drinking 3-4 beers a week and maybe taking 1-2 valiums a week. Sounds good? Is good!
 
There are some valuable bits of advice that AA/NA dispenses, but there's a lot of BS too. I've gone to NA meetings before just to hear their perspective, and I've never really bought into all of what they advocate, either. I think that MOST people, even those who fall into problematic patterns of substance (ab)use, have a lot more self-control than AA/NA gives them credit for...with that being said, for those who have very little or no self-control when it comes to substance use, and who need a lot of structure to their efforts, the AA/NA model can be pretty effective.
 
Of course you can. As far as I can tell there's little to nothing in the steps that is actually of any specific or practical use in helping you stay clean.
 
Top