Can I Recover Without a God?

[cdavismassage]

How can someone who is obsessed with the use of a substance possibly have faith in his own ability...ridiculous and ignorant....if you aare a true addict you must co e to the realization that no amount of willpower can break an obsession...all you have to do is look to yourr. Own experience to know the truth about your drinking/drugging....peo people that say you need to make up your mind to stop do not know what they are talking about...they are ignorant and have never known addiction personally...I dont know of one single addict that has recovered of themselves but I do know plenty of heavy users that werent actually addicts that stopped...a real addict has lost the power of chioce in the matter....ask yourself if this is you?...if it is you may want to try spiritual help...it canthurt right?...especially if youve already tried everyything else...look to your own experience!...nobody else can tell you...if they think they can they are mistaken and wasting their breath...peace man...God bless you

 

[Burnt Offerings]

The "higher power" concept in AA/NA never bothered me as much as the "you are powerless over your own addiction" concept.

 

[MUSHET]

God is just a metaphor for something greater - doesn't need to be in the Abrahamic sense, or any organised religions deity.

Pantheism is something that attracts me, although Richard Dawkins has described this as a 'sexed up atheism', haha.

I like the idea of something spiritual or mystical, The Universe is so fucked up.

 

[cdavismassage]

There are people that are not powerless...they are able to chose whether they do it or not...the concept(as you call it) is not a concept...it is a stark truth in some!!...just because one drinks or drugs excessively does not make him an alcoholic...an alcoholic has crossed a line that renders him powerless about the choice to do it again...at times he is able to stop himself, but there always comes that time when the obsession is so subtly powerful that the thoughts of the consequenses do not enter his mind or if they do they are easily pushed aside in favor of the insane idea that this time it will be different...not because thisis what he consciously desires but because his thought process has become warped...he is mentally ill and unless he has a profound change that can only be brought about by a spiritual experieence he is doomed to repeat this course indefinitely till circumstance brings him to a place where ha cannot drink or drug (jails institutions or death)..and he still may find a way to use unless dead of course...so if one has not lost the ability to choose then he isnot a real addict...hes just perhaps out of control and if a strong circumstance comes into play he is able to modify or stop..perhaps therapy and fellowship will suffice!...a real addict can wish to stop all he wants and be faced with death and he still wont stop because he has no effective mental defense!...It is a fact!!!..based on the experience of millions of sufferers...not a concept!...the same person who is faced with and accepts this proposition is through application of spiritual principles able to break free from this TOTAL bondage....and find himself easily able to do things he isnt supposed to be able to do...like attend his brothers wedding where there is alcohol flowing like water...if he is spiritually fit and honest about his reasoning for being there he can go anywhere on earth...safe and protected as if the problem (obsession) has been removed...in many cases it has !!!there are so many that just do not understand and they continue to spread their ignorance thimking they are being helpfulll when in fact they are a huge part of the problem...who cares about opinions and who is right or wrong??...there are people dying and even worse living dead...lets stop pretending that we know what we are talking about and move to theside so that the real life saving message can get through unobstructed by pomp and inexperience.....METAPHOR PLEASE!!...CONCEPT PLEASE!!!

 

[herbavore]

I have always understood the "powerless over my own addiction" to be a humble way of acknowledging that one needs support. I think that because of all the shame associated with drug addiction, people tend to hide it from everyone as best they can and this only serves to deepen the shame. In isolation, there is also no support and so the person is erroneously led to believe that his or her failed attempts at quitting are because of personal weakness; thus more shame.

Religious people that take the mythology of religious teachings literally confound me, likewise taking the tenets of the twelve steps literally. In each case I can see real empowering benefits from perceiving the teachings in a more metaphorical way. ("I am powerless" does not have to mean I have no power, instead it can mean I do not have enough power without the support of others; in other words healthy humility rather than unhealthy lack of faith in oneself.) I also agree with the OP that a spiritual component is necessary to true and lasting recovery. Addiction is fed by all sorts of ego-related problems (lack of self worth, susceptibility to impulsive cravings with emotional roots, inability to connect/loneliness, anxiety and depression). When a person is able to step into a larger framework, to see themselves and others as equal parts of a larger sphere of existence, the tightly pulled knot of the ego is relaxed and there is amazing freedom and power in stepping outside of our own small minds. (To me, this does not imply any kind of creator or god but to others it may. The crux is understanding that you are a part of a miraculous mystery far greater than your small brief litany of desires.)

 

[Burnt Offerings]

There are people that are not powerless...they are able to chose whether they do it or not...the concept(as you call it) is not a concept...it is a stark truth in some!!...just because one drinks or drugs excessively does not make him an alcoholic...an alcoholic has crossed a line that renders him powerless about the choice to do it again...at times he is able to stop himself, but there always comes that time when the obsession is so subtly powerful that the thoughts of the consequenses do not enter his mind or if they do they are easily pushed aside in favor of the insane idea that this time it will be different...not because thisis what he consciously desires but because his thought process has become warped...he is mentally ill and unless he has a profound change that can only be brought about by a spiritual experieence he is doomed to repeat this course indefinitely till circumstance brings him to a place where ha cannot drink or drug (jails institutions or death)..and he still may find a way to use unless dead of course...so if one has not lost the ability to choose then he isnot a real addict...hes just perhaps out of control and if a strong circumstance comes into play he is able to modify or stop..perhaps therapy and fellowship will suffice!...a real addict can wish to stop all he wants and be faced with death and he still wont stop because he has no effective mental defense!...It is a fact!!!..based on the experience of millions of sufferers...not a concept!...the same person who is faced with and accepts this proposition is through application of spiritual principles able to break free from this TOTAL bondage....and find himself easily able to do things he isnt supposed to be able to do...like attend his brothers wedding where there is alcohol flowing like water...if he is spiritually fit and honest about his reasoning for being there he can go anywhere on earth...safe and protected as if the problem (obsession) has been removed...in many cases it has !!!there are so many that just do not understand and they continue to spread their ignorance thimking they are being helpfulll when in fact they are a huge part of the problem...who cares about opinions and who is right or wrong??...there are people dying and even worse living dead...lets stop pretending that we know what we are talking about and move to theside so that the real life saving message can get through unobstructed by pomp and inexperience.....METAPHOR PLEASE!!...CONCEPT PLEASE!!!

Whoa there. Of course it's a concept, and one that's applied pretty much universally towards people who may be struggling with a substance use disorder. I'm actually willing to admit that there are people out there with absolutely no self-control over their own actions, and in those cases yes, they are powerless, but those people are the large minority among drug users and even drug users who fall into problematic habits. But if you were to try and broach this subject at AA/NA they'd look at you very skeptically, because OF COURSE you're a hopeless addict! Just look at where you are: AA/NA! That's proof enough of your deep-seated problem, and moderation is impossible already.

And don't think you have some sort of monopoly on the "real world perspective"...I have also known many drug addicts, many people who have been formerly or currently incarcerated, and even some people who have died from some kind of addiction, including people in my own family like my grandmother who died of liver failure from alcoholism. I myself have used just about every common drug out there at least once. That doesn't change my opinion that MOST people have SOME KIND of agency and control over their own decision making process...whether they choose to utilize it or not is another story.