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Can everyone reach a visionary state on psychedelics/disassociatives?

KingBlueTwista

KingBlueTwista

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Do most people (or does everyone) have the ability to reach states of complete visual hallucination?

I hear of many deep experiences on chemicals such as methoxetamine (in seemingly small doses) where the user dives deep into their own subconscious mind and their imagination becomes incredibly lucid upon the closing of the eyes. Like some guy who took 50mg and said he could visualise intensely flying over forests or something like that. I have taken methoxetamine in doses of up to 150mg and never experienced such a thing, yet people I've taken it with (from the very same batch) experienced these strange inner realities strongly.

Likewise a while ago a few friends and I each ingested large quantities of 4-AcO-DMT (40-50mg range), many of them seemingly lost contact with reality for hours and claimed to experience such things as being god and repeated death/re-birth, however the only effects I got were pretty trippy thought patterns and the standard tryptamine flowing of the visual field and fractals.

I'm sure others here have experienced such things and I have another question for you.. is it just that you embody the concept and it just feels that you are ie. god, or is there also a visual manifestation of this thought pattern? Are some people just inherently incapable of becoming immersed within these 'alternate realities' or waking dreams?

b.t.w my tolerance to disassociatives/psychedelics is practically non-existent so this plays no part.
 
I actually found I had to learn how to experience closed eye visuals - weird I know right? I never experienced them at first, because I was expecting to close my eyes and for it to be the same as if I had them open (which happens, but only on insanely high doses) - I then decided to just let go and stop actively looking for imagery behind my eyes, just staring blankly into the black. Immediately a couple of seconds later the black was replaced by vivid imagery, colours, patterns etc - and since then CEVs are always there, I just have to relax my eyes a little.

In my experience it's also easier to see CEVs in a dark room, or a dark room with a bright light in it - but quite difficult for me in full daylight, despite my eyes being closed. Not sure why that is.
 
On traditional psychedelics my CEV's are just automatically there, but when it comes to dissociatives what Jesusgreen has just explained is more accurate.
 
KingBlueTwista said:
Like some guy who took 50mg and said he could visualize intensely flying over forests or something like that.
Click to expand...

I've experienced something similar with DMT, these visuals were more intricate where the patterns would begin to form complex structures of familiar concepts.. for example i would be-able to see water running down a creek bed where the surroundings would almost seemingly morph into an entirely different landscape and now i was watching the water trickle down the spinal column of a series of bones which were melting into a metallic liquid, only to turn itself inside out and suddenly im in an emerald forest where everything looks crystalline.

The visuals are so abstract and yet seem to retain this sense of familiarity with reality; i can barley recall most of them because of there complex nature.

I've experienced more lucid/dream-like visuals on rare occasions with LSD, where i would be laying on my bed with my eyes closed and yet i can see palm tree's and clouds passing me by from what feels like the perspective of the back seat of a convertible, unfortunately for me this didn't happen too often.. which is a shame because it really feels like your somewhere else.

KingBlueTwista said:
I'm sure others here have experienced such things and I have another question for you.. is it just that you embody the concept and it just feels that you are ie. god, or is there also a visual manifestation of this thought pattern?
Click to expand...

For me there was usually a visual manifestation accompanied with the feeling of 'god' and it was infinitely abstract in nature.. much like lucid dreaming, in this state each thought became its own reality.. the visuals were representations of your thoughts creating this boundless experience.. it just gets so damm interesting from here on because your in control of what you see, like painting on a formless canvas where all thought is represented through the most abstract and complex imagery.. because your projecting your subconscious mind into pure imagination, throw music into the mix and the emotional feeling also influences the imagery.

My brief description of visuals earlier in my post was in relation to this, which was brought on by DMT. Its also why i can only recall portions of it..

KingBlueTwista said:
Are some people just inherently incapable of becoming immersed within these 'alternate realities' or waking dreams?
Click to expand...

I wouldnt say there incapable, i believe everyone has the potential.. like Jesusgreen said when you let go and expect nothing then everything seems to reveal itself.
 
malakaix said:
I've experienced something similar with DMT, these visuals were more intricate where the patterns would begin to form complex structures of familiar concepts.. for example i would be-able to see water running down a creek bed where the surroundings would almost seemingly morph into an entirely different landscape and now i was watching the water trickle down the spinal column of a series of bones which were melting into a metallic liquid, only to turn itself inside out and suddenly im in an emerald forest where everything looks crystalline.

The visuals are so abstract and yet seem to retain this sense of familiarity with reality; i can barley recall most of them because of there complex nature.

I've experienced more lucid/dream-like visuals on rare occasions with LSD, where i would be laying on my bed with my eyes closed and yet i can see palm tree's and clouds passing me by from what feels like the perspective of the back seat of a convertible, unfortunately for me this didn't happen too often.. which is a shame because it really feels like your somewhere else.



For me there was usually a visual manifestation accompanied with the feeling of 'god' and it was infinitely abstract in nature.. much like lucid dreaming, in this state each thought became its own reality.. the visuals were representations of your thoughts creating this boundless experience.. it just gets so damm interesting from here on because your in control of what you see, like painting on a formless canvas where all thought is represented through the most abstract and complex imagery.. because your projecting your subconscious mind into pure imagination, throw music into the mix and the emotional feeling also influences the imagery.

My brief description of visuals earlier in my post was in relation to this, which was brought on by DMT. Its also why i can only recall portions of it..



I wouldnt say there incapable, i believe everyone has the potential.. like Jesusgreen said when you let go and expect nothing then everything seems to reveal itself.
Click to expand...

From your description, this sounds amazing. I seriously hope I experience this at some point.
 
I think it depends. For example isn't it true that with some forms of blindness (eye-related probably) you can still get visuals with psychedelics and dissociatives but with other types of blindness that have nothing to do with functionality of the eyes it might not be possible at all to get visual effects one way or the other.
Seems reasonable to me that this would extend to other experiences as well, sensory and maybe also emotional and cognitive etc. Regarding emotional effects: some personality disorders blunt emotions in people and make it hard for them to express them or see them in others but they fundamentally still have the capability to feel and emote. From what I know psychopaths are said to be unable to emote but who knows, maybe nobody fundamentally lacks emotions or maybe it is very rare. Could be more like having high or low thresholds, which may be plotted on a Bell curve. Can anyone really tell if there are people who are not wired to feel emotion even if pump them full of psilocin? I'm not sure at all.

Anyway the question was more about visionary states, or perhaps spiritual experiences. Well my guess is still that people have different thresholds and there are likely to be people who are naturally prone to getting visions and spiritual experiences without ever taking any drug and there might be people who find it extremely hard to get a deeply meaningful experience. Seems quite rare to me though, these psychedelics are so powerful!
 
It's definitely possible. I've had a trip on ketamine where I went backwards in time, basically reliving some old painful memories. I've seen myself floating in the air 30 feet away from my friend's balcony outside, and could see everything below and around me perfectly. I've also had mushroom trips where the entire world dissolved around me and only a space grid could be seen amongst the darkness.
Try closing your eyes on your next trip, and try to NOT focus on the kind of visuals you want to see - they will come to you. Let everything go and relax.
Another thing - people with a dark or bothered subconcious will be more likely to have these sorts of trips. Perhaps you are just doing psychedelics at the wrong time. Try doing them when you have a question, or are stressed/bothered about something.
 
The question was not if it is possible for you but if it is possible for just anyone.

Does someone's choice to try to achieve this make the person open to it, almost by default like preparing a self-fulfillable prophecy?
 
ive reached complete visionary states on MXE and N,N,DMT before
 
the only psychedelic that's given me vivid, first-hand, closed-eye visuals is dxm + cannabis. the whole earth rolled over me once.
 
At what dose of MXE did you experience this man?

I had some interesting visuals on MXE for a while the other day, I leant into my girlfriends shoulder and felt myself continue to fall through her and the floor! I then saw a battalion of velociraptors in the darkness, throwing peanuts at each other ahahha:) This was amongst a rapid succession of other shit (in the vein of hypnagogic imagery) but I can't remember anything else. It only lasted about half a minute but it was fucking awesome. I literally said 'wow' when I re-emerged from the depths of her shoulder. But that was all I got:(

Does that sound like the visions people have experienced on MXE? Could someone please describe them qualitatively?... like how vivid are they, how immediate, how abstract, content, speed of transition etc.
 
Like Jesusgreen, I've had to learn to get more CEVs and OEVs out of my trips. It took a lot of closed and open eye meditation, but I can now consistently see complex 3D imagery with my eyes closed or while looking at patterned surfaces with my eyes open (I'm talking about things like enormous elephants striding across the desert plains, cats in top hats, Mayan priests worshipping in front of giant, fractal jaguars, etc.). If I really focus, I can also often achieve closed-eye out-of-body states on fairly reasonable doses (20mg of 4-ACO, 300 mics of acid, etc.). I'm sure everyone has their individual limits, but I'm confident that if you practice clearing your mind and relaxing your eyes and body, you will eventually be able to see more.
 
It can be done without drugs so I am not surprised. Also heroin and certainly the MAM and morphine metabolites are known to produce reverie.
 
ColtDan said:
ive reached complete visionary states on MXE and N,N,DMT before
Click to expand...

Hey man I'd really appreciate it if you could answer a few questions for me as I'm very intrigued:)
How much MXE did it take to get you there?
How long did this visionary state last for?
And finally what was it like with regard to content ie. was it ethereal/seemingly real or somewhere in between, the nature of the imagery etc.
 
not much idea on dose or length of state sadly. it was like a fully lucid dream, very real. its happened a few times. M-hole dose is the best i can offer, perhaps an hour + in the state. but its very hit or miss if you'll have a visionary state, or just end up completely fucked and forget everything. always keep a sitter with you if you attempt it
 
I think 'drugs' are misrepresented as this powerful tool that just does this spiritual thing to you.
It's a tool that you can use in addition to other psychonavigational techniques. It won't do all the work for you.

It tends to magnify what you already have...
And anyways...'chop wood carry water'.
:)

Dextermeth mentioned Kundalini.

My most profoundly spiritual experience was with DXM and (after the OOBE) intensive concentration on Kundalini type meditation.
You know, when the speedy part of the DXM experience kicks in.

So, at that point I was 'practicing Kundalini' (and meditation in general) for a few years, and
it may have taken all that practice to have the experience.

I'll say this, I was very, very disappointed when I first took handfuls of mushrooms my first time and was confronted
with the emptiness that was inside me. I wanted to see all this fantastic imagery and 'my true self' and all this.
Instead it was just an infinite empty blackness. Very disturbing.

But this was when I was 17 or so, a long time ago.

So to me---> Psychedelics generally magnify what's inside.
The more powerful ones can give you some awesome colors and dreams / hallucinations.
But, without bringing it back home with practice you lose any gain.

And can always go farther with 'extra-curricular' practices beforehand.
Those are just my personal opinions.

I recommend Kundalini as well.
Look for practical techniques of opening the crown chakra.
But, again, all those lights and voyages don't mean much if
they're too heavy of fruit to bear... on the tree of your life.

Peace.
 
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I have gone to my mind and back on DXM - about a gram (1000mg) is plenty to reach the 3rd platue, but for me, good music with good bass, and closing my eyes in a comfortable position was enough for me to find my spirit animal, talk to my inner child, figure out my mistakes i have made recently are not my fault, but I cuold have made it easier on myself. And I have seen god in the form of a wood-fence from my front porch that seemed to talk to me in code and such, and looked like it was breathing. While none of this is a "true hallucinogen" - it was very deep, and it ment alot to me. I have tripped and seen things on DXM, and such - but I have never gone to the point where it looks so real, I cant tell reality from my concious belief.

tl:dr - yes you can, and yes many do. But you need to have the mind, and the will to accept it is real (meditate helps), or else it will feel like a blurred day-dream, and less of a true life and mind blowing experiance.
 
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