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Can difficulty breathing induce panic during a trip?

B

brueright

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
35
I just had a thought, reflecting on my two bad experiences on acid (once +2c-e). Both times, the panic hit me suddenly after 8-10 hours of a great trip, and both times while I was smoking - but not smoking for the first time during a trip, so I figured it probably didn't have to do with the weed. What I just realized is that both times, I started freaking out shortly after taking a too-big hit and having a coughing fit. I'm wondering whether maybe a shortage of oxygen caused these experiences?

One thing I found after some quick Googling is http://www.panicattacksko.com/panic_attacks_breathing.html, which says that it's not really clear what's the cause and what's the effect when it comes to panic attacks and difficulty breathing.

I don't think these things were panic attacks, exactly - the best way to sum them up is "pure dread resulting from forgetting everything, including that I am a person" - but maybe they're the more intense during-trip equivalent? They also seem pretty inescapable; neither ended until went to sleep and woke up (the first time, in a hospital).
 
Well first of all, it's possible that the psychological effects from smoking too much weed could have triggered the panic. Anyway if you really begin to believe that you can't breathe properly then obviously that will make you panic.

To be completely honest, if after smoking alot of weed and having this reaction twice, especially seeing as you ended up in hospital one of those times, it would seem to me that the solution is clear.

DO NOT smoke weed, or, smoke less, because it's clear you can't handle too much when you're tripping! Come on, use some common sense.

Remember that cannabis potentiates psychedelic effects for most people, and tripping can also exaggerate any negative feelings, weather it's caused by the weed itself or concern over a coughing fit after a large hit. Just use your noggin, please.

'Can difficulty breathing induce panic during a trip?'

Of fucking course. 8)
 
Splitz said:
Well first of all, it's possible that the psychological effects from smoking too much weed could have triggered the panic. Anyway if you really begin to believe that you can't breathe properly then obviously that will make you panic.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the first time I consciously started freaking out about coughing. I said to my sober friend, "I know I'm not going to die, but I feel like I'm going to die; tell me I'm not going to die." The second time, I didn't really. But I guess the question was whether the oxygen depletion itself, rather than some kind of cycle of trouble breathing and panic, could be a physiological cause of a scary experience.

Splitz said:
To be completely honest, if after smoking alot of weed and having this reaction twice, especially seeing as you ended up in hospital one of those times, it would seem to me that the solution is clear.

DO NOT smoke weed, or, smoke less, because it's clear you can't handle too much when you're tripping! Come on, use some common sense.

Remember that cannabis potentiates psychedelic effects for most people, and tripping can also exaggerate any negative feelings, weather it's caused by the weed itself or concern over a coughing fit after a large hit. Just use your noggin, please.

'Can difficulty breathing induce panic during a trip?'

Of fucking course. 8)
Click to expand...
Word. I'm definitely at least going to be more careful about smoking, even though this only happened a fraction of the times I've smoked during a trip.
 
I have only had a few panic attacks in my life, non from psychs, but weed and concentrates, it usually starts the same. I become aware, that no matter how deep or shallow I breath, i'm not getting enough air. This sets off the panic. Then I feel very hot in the face and torso. Then I become aware that my heart is beating very fast, perhaps too fast in my mind, and this trigger more panic. MY knees wobble, my hands shake. The only way I can stop it, is to take my mind completely off it. Which is much easier said than done. I gave up smoking weed a little while back, and haven't had any panic attacks since.
 
I have a similar kind of problem, when smoking anything whilst tripping, its just the flavour and the weird feeling as the smoke goes down into your lungs, but I just get over the slightly choking feeling and not thinking about it to much and it will go. I find that thinking too much about something can make it worse.
 
"pure dread resulting from forgetting everything, including that I am a person"

are you really serious? ego loss or ego death is the whole point of psychedelics.

well Im not really kidding at all, but I can see how a negative experience (coughing fit) could make the ego death not so pleasant. There is definitely a lot to the connection between proper breathing and feeling well and relaxed. I shouldnt even bring this up since I dont have a source but I once read a study that showed a extraordinarily large number of panic attack cases may be caused by the improper breathing common in our society. We just dont value our breath in the west - it takes work, but its worth it by far!
Actually I consider deep focussed breathing as not only an essential skill for tripping on anything... but the best trip ENHANCER (especially visually and euphorically) by far... over ganj or anything. I actually never really experienced the blissful euphoria possible with lsd until I learned how to control and meditate on my breath successfully.

As far as the way you are referring to the "main event" that ego death is in regards to psychedelics (I can understand why it wasnt enjoyable in these cases)... I recommend you read up on the phenomenon in relation to lsd and others as much as you can, cuz its gonna happen from time to time if you are getting anywhere. Once you get good at breathing and can breath yourself into this state (and you have gotten used to the idea of letting go of the self completely) - you are going to be blown away by how enjoyable it can be (although it will always be amazing and shocking but in a good way). No point in me trying to describe the way it feels - thats really impossible.
 
funny too - I have always noted that I can take gynormous hits of ganj as a result of the analgesic effects (of lsd at least)
 
Many things can induce a bad trip, especially difficulty breathing or other health related problems. Weed also makes some people really paranoid on psychs. Stay away from weed unless you are very comfortable in the psychedelic mindset.
 
Difficulty breathing can always induce panic whether there are drugs involved or not. It's just survival instinct.
 
Nateup said:
"pure dread resulting from forgetting everything, including that I am a person"

are you really serious? ego loss or ego death is the whole point of psychedelics.

well Im not really kidding at all, but I can see how a negative experience (coughing fit) could make the ego death not so pleasant. There is definitely a lot to the connection between proper breathing and feeling well and relaxed. I shouldnt even bring this up since I dont have a source but I once read a study that showed a extraordinarily large number of panic attack cases may be caused by the improper breathing common in our society. We just dont value our breath in the west - it takes work, but its worth it by far!
Actually I consider deep focussed breathing as not only an essential skill for tripping on anything... but the best trip ENHANCER (especially visually and euphorically) by far... over ganj or anything. I actually never really experienced the blissful euphoria possible with lsd until I learned how to control and meditate on my breath successfully.

As far as the way you are referring to the "main event" that ego death is in regards to psychedelics (I can understand why it wasnt enjoyable in these cases)... I recommend you read up on the phenomenon in relation to lsd and others as much as you can, cuz its gonna happen from time to time if you are getting anywhere. Once you get good at breathing and can breath yourself into this state (and you have gotten used to the idea of letting go of the self completely) - you are going to be blown away by how enjoyable it can be (although it will always be amazing and shocking but in a good way). No point in me trying to describe the way it feels - thats really impossible.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out whether I'm interested in exploring the ego death thing further, because it was scary the two times it happened but so much better the second time since I was somewhat prepared. I figure if I can really get the fear under control it might be a good experience the next time it happens.
 
Probably. Go to the doc and tell him when your going on a trip and he might give you something for it like benzos like xanax or klonopin.
 
Personally I wouldve eventually got bored with just watching visuals if I hadn't started doing "the work" (not saying you arent) and really trying to dig in. (basically different forms meditation, breathing, and inducing trance states) There is just so far you can go with lsd if you put in the effort... or maybe just have a gift for it? Not sure really
 
Difficulty breathing would induce panic in me even if i was sober..so when it comes to tripping is it really even a question?
 
well the obvious answer is certainly yes. However, some have found such states useful. Carbogen & holotropic breathwork both work via lack of oxygen/excess of carbon dioxide. And these both can cause panic reactions. Certainly not the most pleasurable way to go about things, but many have found it useful.
 
The first time I took acid, I went into a horrible coughing fit after a huge bong hit and that was pretty terrible so it just seems like common sense to me. No one likes a big cough, and therefore psychs will probably make that experience worse.
That being said another time on acid a bad bong hit had me coughing so hard I threw up, and that actually wasn't really that unpleasant, at least not as much as you'd expect. I'd go with the first response, just smoke less weed.
 
Not really sure on this one, but what id like to know is why do you get Laboured Breathing when on some drugs?

Or more noticeable?
 
Brueright - trust me - focus on controlling your breathing: http://www.erowid.org/spirit/breathing/breathing.shtml then try it out while tripping. You could just not smoke for a while til you get to the bottom of it. I didnt quit smoking though - actually Pranayama is great while only stoned too! And if you dont want to achieve ego death again at this point - that is perfectly fine. Just keep the doses lower than to induce it - the breathing won't just automatically induce ego death so dont worry about that. (I realized something I said earlier may have made it seem like the breathing exercises will take you there automatically or something)
This info comes from over 13 years of mindful psychedelic experience. I only wish I had learned this fundamental much earlier.
Enjoy the journey
 
Definitely, in fact almost all panic I have experienced during trips in these last years were breathing-related. Usually it is much worse when there is an upper, downer or opiate in the mix, especially the latter two since they can give me the idea that something is wrong and I am in physical danger. I tend to worry about passing out and not waking up anymore in those situations. And the symptoms are pretty much those of hyperventilation.

It started when I once had this effect when I had tripped on 4-AcO-DMT and methylone and GHB, and I started withdrawing from the GHB and got rebound stim effects from methylone (having redosed and everything). I was aching and at some point took a codeine, then I freaked out about the GHB and codeine thinking that there was a chance I might die. In retrospect this was a total overreaction but I had never heard about hyperventilation being that bad. I always thought: panic attack? Just relax then. But it got so bad I got scared enough to go to the ER. Everytime I went there it got better and I turned around no less than 3 times. I also was too afraid to take anything for the anxiety worrying that it might make it worse with resp. depression. Eventually I couldn't make it anymore, it was too much for me and I went to the ER. From the hyperventilation my CO2 in my blood went through the roof and that caused nasty things like fluttering in the chest and other crazy shit. That made me worry even more, considering they were real symptoms.
I was not done tripping either, even though it had been quite a few hours. I thought my whole hospital room was blue and while I felt mentally clear and present there were signs that I was not clear at all, instead terribly confused.

I think I triggered some kind of panic disorder, maybe a mild one. The resp depression of opiates tend to scare the shit out of me, I also did not react that well to DMT anymore after that, physically. Pretty erratic and irregular breathing.

I wonder if this is something psychedelic therapy might help with, possibly with MDA or MDMA. It may help considering I got it almost overnight, so it could partially disappear overnight as well. But at the same time I think I chronically fucked my GABA system, among other things.

I am also convinced that breathing is a deeply spiritual thing and is very much related to a form of inner balance, on very powerful trips I have experienced that inhaling can seem like the birth part of the cycle, reviving all sorts of biological processes providing the oxygen. Exhaling seems like the death part, concluding the cycle. I know there are many things wrong with the analogy but proper breathing techniques can serve perfectly for meditative focus making it the only thing you have to do to keep alive that you can partially control consciously.
The scary thing about my first real panic attack was that I seemed unable to keep breathing normally, it almost seemed like I would not continue breathing if I did not give it real attention. I´m sure that was not really the case, hyperventilation means that you overcompensate so instead of keeping myself alive with conscious breathing I was taking in too much air too fast.
It is of course a very powerful root mechanism just like controlling your body temperature and heartrate. The difference with those is that most people cannot access it, but there are those few who can. I think the opposite of learning to control those things is losing touch with them. And that can apparently make you feel like you lose your center.
 
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