N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
caffeine to treat benzodiazepene withdrawal
psychedelic food
Bluelighter
Seeing as flumenazil a benzodiazepene antagonist is used to treat benzo withdrawal. Wouldn't it make sense that caffeine also a benzodiazepene antagonist (albeit a mild one) would be useful in helping benzodiazepene withdrawl. I am currently going through benzo withdrawal. Would drinking several cups of coffee a day help or make it worse?
Tsukasa
Bluelighter
Caffeine is not a benzodiazepine antagonist, where the hell did you hear that? Theirs no such thing. You mean a GABA receptor antagonist, which is the receptor benzodiazepines allosterically potentiate. Caffeine is an adenosine antagonist, and it increases activity of catecholamines and glutamate, and to a lesser extent serotonin.
It's the worst thing you can take when in benzo withdrawals. You'll already be feeling tense and anxious, caffeine will just make it several times worst. If you want something to help with benzo wd's, then I would look into GABA supplement, ethanol (just not absinthe), valerian root extract, vitamin B6, quercetin, iron, zinc, SAMe. Yoga also is extremely helpful.
without doing any research i can confidently tell you the last thing you want to take when in benzo w/d's are any type of stimulant, especially caffeine which will make you feel like shit in large quantities anyway
the only thing i would recommend for benzo w/d's is tapering and/or whatever opiate floats your boat
but thats not exactly harm reduction then =]
Tsukasa
Bluelighter
^ Yea kava's a really good option. Works much like benzo's, with a psychadelic touch.
I think nitrous oxide would be cool during benzo wd's, as an adjunct to other treatments. The exhilerating peak effects don't last very long, but the anxylotic after-effect lasts up to half an hour.
negrogesic
Bluelight Crew
Do not taking caffeine during benzo withdrawal.
Phenibut should reduce these symptoms, although phenibut itself is habit forming.
Also, nitrous oxide during benzo withdrawal exacerbates the psychosis. I learnt this first hand...
psychedelic food
Bluelighter
Thank you for the replies. I remember reading from a couple sources that caffeine is a weak BZ antagonist, but it must have been false information. I am currently on phenibut which is helping. I also took some buspar and Valerian i had lying around.
The Monkey Mantra
Bluelighter
Funny thing is, during opiate withdrawals, my Adderall XRs made me feel a *shit ton* better. Dunno if that'd work in reverse, but I definitely second the "use opiates and taper" option.
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
^ I definitely do NOT recommend opiates during benzo w/d. They won't help with the anxiety and in fact most opiates lower seizure threshold.
Caffeine is not the best for benzo w/d either.
theWorldWithin
Bluelighter
Good advice from jamshyd, if you have to withdrawal then you must do a decently long taper depending on the severity and length of your habit. If you do not have enough benzos to taper then I highly recommend going to an inpatient rehab or at least the hospital once the WDs hit.
Of course there are some small habits that present little risk of seizure, in these cases staying home with some opiates may be a viable although not ideal alternative to professional detox.
synergistic-affect
Greenlighter
these are unconventional but: Baclofen works well, a little better than phenibut, but still poses it's own risk of addiction. Baclofen should technically be easier to stop though. Baclofen, not phenibut, seems to have a self regulating mechanism that blocks tolerance. That would equate to me that it is easier to cut the dose down in a taper. Even less conventional: GBL. yup, i know it sounds stupid, and if your problem is an addictive personality, get the hell away from it. But Gbl seems to reset almost all my circuits after a few days on it. I have been dependent on benzos and switched to G (so have tons of alcoholics and benzo patients in controlled studies) without a problem, then after stabilized, i taper and come off of that (usually with a little phenibut or baclofen) There is no super easy way. All have drawbacks, whether it's discomfort or drug substitution (or a balance between). G is my golden bullet for opiate addiction, kills all withdrawals, but that is for another thread
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
^ G-drugs are also a very, very bad idea, in my experience.
It seems that half of those who use these drugs, like me, achieve extreme euphoria and get extreme withdrawals. These withdrawals are worse than both benzos and opiate withdrawal put together.
johanneschimpo
Bluelighter
^ So what would you (or anyone else) say works well (or best) for benzo withdrawal? Kava, phenibut, GABA etc... ?
(I'm looking for suggestions of any type: supplements, OTC drugs, maybe prescription drugs)
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melange
Bluelighter
valerian
Hammilton
Bluelighter
I have not heard that caffeine was a benzodiazepine receptor antagonist, though it's certainly possible. Double check: doesn't appear to interact directly, but does have somewhat similar properties at least in the long term. http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/33/5/481 Not a viable treatment, I'm afraid. Uncoupling the two should decrease but not eliminate the effects. I'm gonna see about getting the full paper, they should describe any actual decrease in effectiveness. It doesn't make sense to treat benzo withdrawal with a BZD antagonist, though. That'd be like treating morphine withdrawal with naloxone
You say the most hillarious things some times. Seriously, there is no such thing as a benzodiazepine receptor antagonist? The GABA receptor complex is complex, as in not simple at all, but it's such a stupid statement. Do you suppose that BZDs bind to the same site as GABA? They don't.
I'd suggest reading the WIKI entry here before repeating that.
aoe2junkie
Bluelighter
when i was in benzo wd's caffeine just turned my world upside down. drink alcohol (moderately) instead
Tsukasa
Bluelighter
The term "benzodiazepine receptor" was replaced with Benzodiazepine site
and i never said GABA and benzo's are the same. I'm aware that most benzo's potentiate the GABAa subunit receptor. I don't think OP needs to know those kinds of specifics here ham.
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Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
Neurontin has helped me somewhat, especially in combination with Theanine.
Otherwise, the best thing is sobriety and getting involved in your favourite hobby, or finding a new one if that is drugs.
Hammilton
Bluelighter
Well, as it says, it's been suggested. Hasn't really happened yet- and it's a bit irrelevant; there are distinct benzodiazepine receptors, and there are benzodiazepine receptor antagonists.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
No it's used to treat overdose. I think everything that needs to be said on this matter has been.
