Opioids Buprenorphine (Subutex/Suboxone/Temgesic) for Depression (TRD)?

[Drench]

Hi guys,

I have been looking into effective medical treatment of depression for a friend.

They have been on a selection of SSRI's and an SNRI and Mirtazipine trying to break through the depression and at the moment it really isn't working.

They have been looking at the other medication which may be considered to have a useful anti-depressant effect. They settled on two different drugs - Ritalin/Dexedrine and Buprenorphine. They have decided to put all of their research into Buprenorphine due to the anxiety promoting effects of any Amphetamine salts.

Buprenorphine is usually used to help opiate addicts quit, but it has a strong secondary effect as an anti-depressant. It basically (is meant) to stop users using as it blocks certain opiate receptors. The anti-depressant effect is currently being studied (see papers below).

I have an anecdotal report, a young male with depression took between 1-2mg per day for an extended period with extremely successful results. They reported a complete dissipation of depressed thoughts and feelings along with a strong anti-anxiety effect. Dosing worked out best at 1mg twice a day.

Does anyone here have any experiencing of the anti=depressant effects of Buprenorphine?

These papers are worth reading -

http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/mo...resistant-depression-outcomes/article/368764/

http://www.treatment4addiction.com/treatment/drug/buprenorphine/antidepressant/

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/maj...-buprenorphine-treatment-resistant-depression

https://www.naabt.org/documents/The_Buprenorphine_effect_on_Depression.pdf

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/0...sistant-depression-partial-mu-opioid-agonist/

 

[Mad Dash]

Yes, I have PTSD, MDD, and severe anxiety. I am on subutex, viibryd, and valium. I do not think just the viibryd alone would help control such powerful depression, but with the inclusion of the subutex I can tell it amps up the AD effects and makes my life somewhat more manageable. But even still there are times when out of nowhere (usually in large crowds of people) when I have nervous breakdowns and violent outburts screaming at random people and warning them to stay away from me. When the police show up They take me straight to the VA ER. I have spent A LOT of time on the second floor. They FINALLY listened to me when I said I need a FAST acting powerful benzo for moments like that and it came in the form of ativan. I put 2 mg under my tongue and within 1 minute I already begin to calm down and within 5 minutes I am calm. So I may not be totally fixed... but with my issues medication alone is only going to do so much the daily therapy is where I make most of my progress. Word to the wise: stay the FUCK out of the military.

 

[Drench]

Yes, I have PTSD, MDD, and severe anxiety. I am on subutex, viibryd, and valium. I do not think just the viibryd alone would help control such powerful depression, but with the inclusion of the subutex I can tell it amps up the AD effects and makes my life somewhat more manageable. But even still there are times when out of nowhere (usually in large crowds of people) when I have nervous breakdowns and violent outburts screaming at random people and warning them to stay away from me. When the police show up They take me straight to the VA ER. I have spent A LOT of time on the second floor. They FINALLY listened to me when I said I need a FAST acting powerful benzo for moments like that and it came in the form of ativan. I put 2 mg under my tongue and within 1 minute I already begin to calm down and within 5 minutes I am calm. So I may not be totally fixed... but with my issues medication alone is only going to do so much the daily therapy is where I make most of my progress. Word to the wise: stay the FUCK out of the military.

Thanks for the reply I am assuming that you are in the US? How long have you been prescribed the Subutex? Who prescribed it? (Dr/GP/Psychiatrist)

I'm glad that it is working OK for you. I have full sympathy for you and I hope you get better

 

[Mad Dash]

Yes I am in the U.S. and I have been on it for almost a year now, I get it from my pain management doctor, it is usually used for opiate dependency obviously. But in patients that have addictive tendencies and they can not be on typical painkillers bupe is a great way to deal with pain. Especially because you don't really get high off it if you take if long term at above 4 mg doses. I take 8 mg a day. So my tolerance does not increase but I still get the same painkilling effects as when I first started taking it.

 

[Drench]

Yes I am in the U.S. and I have been on it for almost a year now, I get it from my pain management doctor, it is usually used for opiate dependency obviously. But in patients that have addictive tendencies and they can not be on typical painkillers bupe is a great way to deal with pain. Especially because you don't really get high off it if you take if long term at above 4 mg doses. I take 8 mg a day. So my tolerance does not increase but I still get the same painkilling effects as when I first started taking it.

Ok. We don't have Pain Management Doctors here like you do in the US. Although there is a minor pain issue and previous opiate use (abuse) as well as the depression in this situation.

It seems that you've been prescribed it for pain and also benefiting from it's anti-depressant effects, would that be right?

Cheers,

D

 

[Mad Dash]

Ok. We don't have Pain Management Doctors here like you do in the US. Although there is a minor pain issue and previous opiate use (abuse) as well as the depression in this situation.

It seems that you've been prescribed it for pain and also benefiting from it's anti-depressant effects, would that be right?

Cheers,

D

Yes to both of the above questions, and it does a great job at both. The main reason I am on it instead of other opiates (oxy, hydro, fent) is because I am by nature an opiate addict, and bupe is not really a medication you can abuse if you take it right. In the U.S. we have a scheduling system CI CII CIII CIV CV. CI is street drugs like heroin, CII is like oxycodone, CIII is what we rank bupe under. So even the FDA understands bupe to be a 'safer' and less abuse prone medication. You may catch a random buzz here or there which I think also helps me not crave other opiates, but done right, it will keep your pain under control without ever having to increase dosage due to tolerance.

 

[Drench]

Yes to both of the above questions, and it does a great job at both. The main reason I am on it instead of other opiates (oxy, hydro, fent) is because I am by nature an opiate addict, and bupe is not really a medication you can abuse if you take it right. In the U.S. we have a scheduling system CI CII CIII CIV CV. CI is street drugs like heroin, CII is like oxycodone, CIII is what we rank bupe under. So even the FDA understands bupe to be a 'safer' and less abuse prone medication. You may catch a random buzz here or there which I think also helps me not crave other opiates, but done right, it will keep your pain under control without ever having to increase dosage due to tolerance.

That's brilliant. That saves you having to do the whole opiate rotation thing and it actually works better in the body, right? How do you feel each day before you take the Subutex? Does it make you feel optimistic, ready to take on the world, but not high? I think this may be my solution.

I salute you Sir!

 

[Mad Dash]

Indeed it does. And since it has such a long half life there is zero inter-dose WD. It has helped me immensely. Changed my life. I wake up at 0600 every morning study some real-estate law, go to the gym for an hour, come home and study more until usually 1800. Then I take my night time meds and settle down to watch movies and go to sleep. It works great for me and I hope it does for you as well. BostonBrownTown another member here has a similar protocol and has similar positive results. Please keep me updated on how it works for you.

 

[Drench]

Indeed it does. And since it has such a long half life there is zero inter-dose WD. It has helped me immensely. Changed my life. I wake up at 0600 every morning study some real-estate law, go to the gym for an hour, come home and study more until usually 1800. Then I take my night time meds and settle down to watch movies and go to sleep. It works great for me and I hope it does for you as well. BostonBrownTown another member here has a similar protocol and has similar positive results. Please keep me updated on how it works for you.

That's fantastic, I think Subutex is an overlooked and very efficient anti=depressant. It sounds like you are on the right road and you lead a really productive life.

Are you studying law?

Do you do cardio or weights in the gym? The exercise should release natural endorphins

 

[Mad Dash]

No I am actually going for my real-estate license, but right now the section I am on is real-estate law which is A LOT. So much information it is ridiculous, there is so much much that goes into putting together real-estate transactions that you essentially become a mini-lawyer who deals exclusively in real-estate. There are actually real-estate lawyers but they also specialize in other things as well, because most of the work just gets handled by the associate and the broker.

The gym is in my blood, I use to be in a special operations unit and fitness is a huge part of my life. I am 6 foot 2 and 205 lbs with 10% body fat. I can honestly say if it weren't for the gym I would have MUCH bigger problems in my life. It does so much for me, including strengthening my back muscles to help keep my spine compressed, it helps a lot with the pain. Both physically and mentally. But I mostly lift weights but at a very fast pace, so I get my cardio in while lifting weights. High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). Helps me gain muscle mass as well as keep my body fat down which is very important to me.

 

[Drench]

No I am actually going for my real-estate license, but right now the section I am on is real-estate law which is A LOT. So much information it is ridiculous, there is so much much that goes into putting together real-estate transactions that you essentially become a mini-lawyer who deals exclusively in real-estate. There are actually real-estate lawyers but they also specialize in other things as well, because most of the work just gets handled by the associate and the broker.

The gym is in my blood, I use to be in a special operations unit and fitness is a huge part of my life. I am 6 foot 2 and 205 lbs with 10% body fat. I can honestly say if it weren't for the gym I would have MUCH bigger problems in my life. It does so much for me, including strengthening my back muscles to help keep my spine compressed, it helps a lot with the pain. Both physically and mentally. But I mostly lift weights but at a very fast pace, so I get my cardio in while lifting weights. High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). Helps me gain muscle mass as well as keep my body fat down which is very important to me.

Real estate pays well, keep at it and you'll get there. It is fortunate for you that you're into exercise as it will keep you healthy and help with many problems. So you used to be a Marine or similar? I've read that many soldiers are coming home with mental problems, these men have risked their lives for our countries and deserve to be treated by doctors. These guys need support, from doctors especially!

 

[Mad Dash]

Real estate pays well, keep at it and you'll get there. It is fortunate for you that you're into exercise as it will keep you healthy and help with many problems. So you used to be a Marine or similar? I've read that many soldiers are coming home with mental problems, these men have risked their lives for our countries and deserve to be treated by doctors. These guys need support, from doctors especially!

No I am a former Army Ranger. Part of the 75th Ranger Regiment. It is an airborne unit and the airborne jumps are what cause most of my bodily damage. Time overseas is what caused the mental problems. Army rangers are a special operations unit so we got into some bad shit. I never really got hurt at all overseas physically. Others did though. That is really the reason I have so many problems now, and when I got out and was a mess my wife left me. When I needed her the most. The past year and a half has been the most horrific days of my life. I tried several times to OD on purpose but for some reason I kept waking up. I shot 180 mg of oxy to try to kill myself and somehow I woke up 24 hours later on the floor of my apartment. with blood all over the place because when I fell over I cut my head on the coffee table. When that didn't work I went to get help. I have been clean for almost 1 year now. In 10 days is my one year birthday. August 24th.

 

[Drench]

No I am a former Army Ranger. Part of the 75th Ranger Regiment. It is an airborne unit and the airborne jumps are what cause most of my bodily damage. Time overseas is what caused the mental problems. Army rangers are a special operations unit so we got into some bad shit. I never really got hurt at all overseas physically. Others did though. That is really the reason I have so many problems now, and when I got out and was a mess my wife left me. When I needed her the most. The past year and a half has been the most horrific days of my life. I tried several times to OD on purpose but for some reason I kept waking up. I shot 180 mg of oxy to try to kill myself and somehow I woke up 24 hours later on the floor of my apartment. with blood all over the place because when I fell over I cut my head on the coffee table. When that didn't work I went to get help. I have been clean for almost 1 year now. In 10 days is my one year birthday. August 24th.

It sounds like you were doing some HALO shiz, respect.

There is obviously a reason you are still here after all of that, so it's good that you are making the most of things, exercising etc.

My birthday is in August too, Leo?

 

[Mad Dash]

hahaha no my birthday is in march. But my one year sober birthday (as we call it in AA) is in August. And I am aware I am on bupe some people don't consider that clean but I will be on it for life more than likely so I can't really be clean any other way. I haven't taken anything I am not RXd however, and I have not had a drink in over a year. My life has never been so stable (aside from my depression because of life issues) but my urge to abuse drugs is at bay.

 

[c4oz]

I'm on 0,5 Clonazepam x3 a day and 2,5mg Olanzapine for my depression, anxiety, etc and is working very good. I got better in matter of days only. I also use Buprenorphine when i have no opiates and i want.. (i take Morphine/Fentanyl/Heroin 2 or 3days each month or two), i take Buprenorphine and it relieves, but i also take de Buprenorphine because it also help very much for the Anxiety, Depression etc... like an "instant" effect developed in 3 hours or so.. i like..

Sorry for my english,

hope your friend get well soon

 

[Mad Dash]

de nada, gracias mi amigo.