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Bupe Buprenorphine + Nutella = Oral buprenorphine unlocked? (a different way to take bupe???)

I must be living in a cave, designed to be taken orally? I hope you didn't mean like to swallow, but then again you did?
I don't mean to disrespect but they are designed oral like dissolve sublingual or buccal, cause swallowing would ruin your diggestive track not to mention liver failure.
Never heard or saw online and I was a med-teh so I know what's in pharmacies and which meds get approved in EU but again that's public data.

I saw or heard that with nutella arround or any gelly-sticky type and from some opinions can remember one that come to mind like: cause of slower passing metabolism, like the evidence is only nutella will cause constipation without bupe and it would shield bupe's water solubility pill, like coater in some other pills, then more of the bupe would pass first pass metablism hence the better absorbtion, if that makes sense?
Just throwing this out there....as someone who loves animals and has cared for many sick and dying adopted cats when no one else would take them, I've spent a small fortune in veterinary bills and whenever one of my cats has had severe pain be it arthritic, digestive, kidneys, or cancer my animals get prescribed ORAL buprenophrine 100% of the time and it's quite obvious when they get their bupe as the get to a "nodding" sort of drugged state....very similar when one of my cats needed a fentanyl patch after intestinal surgery.
Now I'm talking about felines here so humans may be different but I can say 1000% certainly that bupe is prescribed orally for animals every single day.
 
Just throwing this out there....as someone who loves animals and has cared for many sick and dying adopted cats when no one else would take them, I've spent a small fortune in veterinary bills and whenever one of my cats has had severe pain be it arthritic, digestive, kidneys, or cancer my animals get prescribed ORAL buprenophrine 100% of the time and it's quite obvious when they get their bupe as the get to a "nodding" sort of drugged state....very similar when one of my cats needed a fentanyl patch after intestinal surgery.
Now I'm talking about felines here so humans may be different but I can say 1000% certainly that bupe is prescribed orally for animals every single day.
How did your animals take it tho?

Was it shot into their mouth with an oral syringe or did they eat it? In either scenario, bupe is potent enough that it would probably still get into their oral mucus membranes & tissues. But either way, bupe is so potent that even with it's poor oral bioavailability, you will still absorb some & it only takes micrograms to have an analgesic effect on some one with no opioid tolerance.

This is why oral bupe is not really effective for some one who requires milligrams of the stuff.


I can't see any reason to take bupe & nutella for increased bioavailability when you could simply take it any other ROA and instantly have better BA.
Unless oral buprenorphine some how has effects that are more recreational or enjoyable than any other route, which I'm skeptical of.
 
How did your animals take it tho?

Was it shot into their mouth with an oral syringe or did they eat it? In either scenario, bupe is potent enough that it would probably still get into their oral mucus membranes & tissues. But either way, bupe is so potent that even with it's poor oral bioavailability, you will still absorb some & it only takes micrograms to have an analgesic effect on some one with no opioid tolerance.

This is why oral bupe is not really effective for some one who requires milligrams of the stuff.


I can't see any reason to take bupe & nutella for increased bioavailability when you could simply take it any other ROA and instantly have better BA.
Unless oral buprenorphine some how has effects that are more recreational or enjoyable than any other route, which I'm skeptical of.
It was with a 1ml oral syringe certainly some would absorb sublingually but if you've ever given cats medicine orally...they cant really hold any liquids even water in their mouths they either swallow whst their trying to consume or spit it out immediately.
I've given hundreds of doses of oral.meds to many cats and you pretty much have to shoot the medicine into the back of their mouths so they immediately gulp it down by holding them like a baby (cradling them while they are laying down in your arms).
It's always an instant gulp that you can hear .
I'm extremely confident that 99% or more of the bupe gets immediately swallowed into their stomachs.
However cats may be able to absorb it orally and humans may not...I really don't know. I don't do opiates whatsoever.
I'm actually a chronic pain sufferer but my pain is extreme arthritic inflammation in my wrists hands,feet, ankles and neck.
For me oxy's do nothing....because they don't help with inflammation.
I'd actually rather take advil or opiates which seems crazy to everyone but it's true for my condition.
Felines and people have different enzymes so I'm not sure of bupe is orally active in cats and this is not true for people.
 
"
The amount of Nutella® given to the animals may vary. The amount should be chosen so that it is large enough to hold the analgesic, and appear attractive to the subjects, but small enough not to cause unintended significant diet changes in the animals. The Nutella is composed of sugar, vegetable oil, hazelnuts, cocoa, skim milk powder, soy lecithin and vanillin. The caloric content is 22.27 kJ/g; protein content is 6.9%, carbohydrate content 56.6% (mostly sugar), fat content 31%, and dietary fibre content 3.4%. We have found approximately 2 g Nutella®/kg body weight (BW) for rats and approximately 5 mg Nutella®/kg BW for mice appropriate.

When preparing the buprenorphine–Nutella® mixture, preparing a batch that can be used for several animals is recommended, since mixing small amounts of the mixture may be difficult. The possible degradation of buprenorphine in the nut paste has not been investigated, but in our experience, the batch can be kept in a refrigerator at 4°C for up to a week. Buprenorphine in tablet form should be used (sublingual tablets 0.2 or 0.4 mg). A tablet is crushed to a fine powder, and thoroughly mixed in the nut paste to a suitable concentration of buprenorphine–Nutella® mix, depending on the dose of buprenorphine to be administered. The somewhat bitter taste of buprenorphine did not affect the willingness to ingest the mixture of neither rats nor mice, when offered in concentrations of 0.2–0.4 mg/g.46,8,9,11

The dose of buprenorphine administered may vary depending on the overall analgesic strategy. The dose we have validated in rats is 0.4 mg/kg BW, administered once (1 h preoperatively). This dose is sufficient for treatment of moderate pain conditions46,12. The mix should be provided according to the following equation:

10.1258_la.2012.012028-eq1.gif
where A is the amount of mix to be provided in grams, calculated from the analgesic dose in mg/kg BW (B), the weight of the animal in kg (C), and the concentration of the buprenorphine–nut paste mix in mg/g (D).


For example, in treating a 250 g rat with 0.4 mg/kg BW buprenorphine (in 0.2 mg/g nut paste), the rat should be provided with 0.4 × 0.25/0.2 = 0.5 g of the buprenorphine–Nutella® mixture.

A recent study of mice indicates that approximately 1.0 mg/kg BW buprenorphine is suitable8. Thus, treating a 25 g mouse with 1.0 mg/kg BW calls for 1.0 × 0.025/0.2 = 125 mg of the buprenorphine–nut paste mixture.

Healthy animals readily ingest the mixture immediately or within minutes, once habituated, and administering the analgesia preoperatively is convenient. Postoperatively, we have found t
hat mice ingest the mix after catheterization8 and middle cerebral occlusion (preliminary data), and rats after catheterization46,13,14 and induction of global cerebral ischaemia7. These conditions are considered to produce mild to moderate pain. How readily the animals will ingest the mixture after more invasive surgical procedures remains to be investigated. Furthermore, the duration and depth of anaesthesia, the skills of the surgeon, and the overall perioperative care of the animals are factors that affect postoperative recovery15, and thus the willingness of the animals to ingest the mixture after regaining consciousness.

Treatment with buprenorphine, similar to other opioid analgesia, is often associated with adverse effects, such as reduced appetite, changes in activity, and pica behaviour16. However, reduced appetite and changed activity are often due to overdosing the animals16, and adjustment of doses for different animals and experimental situations may be necessary. Pica behavior has not been observed in any of our experiments.
 
patients taking buprenorphine have reported a bitter taste of the medication, so strong that it can even cause them to discontinue their treatment, giving us more understanding as to why even mice and rats turn their nose away from buprenorphine. However, in 2008, a collaborative scientific team in Sweden and Denmark used Nutella® to deliver buprenorphine to rats, and compare this route of administration with standard buprenorphine injections (PMID: 18596376). Over the course of the next 4 years, they published many other studies showing that oral delivery of buprenorphine via Nutella® is an effective analgesic strategy:
 
So basically none of BL animals fucking tried this!?

I’ll get a bit of bupe just to try this.

As far as I know and as far as people who tried it (without nutella) told me, bupe has NO (at least psychoactive) effects taken orally.
 
I’m willing to bet it’s the soy lecithin in the Nutella working the magic. We find this with other drugs too.

-GC
 
3 or 4 years and no one has tried this yet?
its literally just crushing and mixing nutella with 0.2 to 0.4mg of buprenorphine. the amounts in question seem similar to the doses that are given for pain for buccal administration. they even write that 0.4mg should be sufficient for someone with severe pain, and 0.2mg for moderate pain. which makes sense when buccal buprenorphine ranges from 100mcg to 1000mcg.

i have read other reports of people who couldnt get a buildup of bupe in their system to read on their toxicology began taking it orally and it actually worked for them where as it wasnt working correctly before. oral bupe , does work for some people. obviously not many, because most people won't be administering it that way to find out, nor would they know that oral bioavailability could be increased.

for some reason - ive become allergic to bupe / any opioid over the years, when i take them my sinuses become swollen (with no congestion, just nerve pain)


i would 100% try this if i didnt have problems from 20 years of taking opiates

and i will try it in the future sometime
 
part 2: https://www.bluelight.org/community...ve-buprenorphine-oral-bioavailability.945762/
(using
excerpt from thread: α-mangostin, chrysin, ginger extract, pterostilbene and silybin. pterostilbene and ginger increased the bioavailability of oral up to 35% i believe)
i wonder if this works for other meds, because i have a funny feeling that it does. it even states at the end that it could be used for other low-bioavailability drugs






Abstract

The present study evaluated the potential of five generally recognized as safe (GRAS) or dietary compounds (α-mangostin, chrysin, ginger extract, pterostilbene and silybin) to inhibit oxidative (CYP) and conjugative (UGT) metabolism using pooled human intestinal and liver microsomes. Buprenorphine was chosen as the model substrate as it is extensively metabolized by CYPs to norbuprenorphine and by UGTs to buprenorphine glucuronide. Chrysin, ginger extract, α-mangostin, pterostilbene and silybin were tested for their inhibition of the formation of norbuprenorphine or buprenorphine glucuronide in both intestinal and liver microsomes. Pterostilbene was the most potent inhibitor of norbuprenorphine formation in both intestinal and liver microsomes, with IC50 values of 1.3 and 0.8 μM, respectively, while α-mangostin and silybin most potently inhibited buprenorphine glucuronide formation. The equipotent combination of pterostilbene and ginger extract additively inhibited both pathways in intestinal microsomes. Since pterostilbene and ginger extract showed potent CYP and/or UGT inhibition of buprenorphine metabolism, their equipotent combination was tested to assess the presence of synergistic inhibition. However, because the combination showed additive inhibition, it was not used while performing IVIVE analysis. Based on quantitative in vitro-in vivo extrapolation, pterostilbene (21 mg oral dose) appeared to be most effective in improving the mean predicted Foral and AUC∞ PO of buprenorphine from 3 ± 2% and 340 ± 330 ng*min/ml to 75 ± 8% and 36,000 ± 25,000 ng*min/ml, respectively. At a 10-fold lower dose of pterostilbene, the predicted buprenorphine Foral approximated sublingual bioavailability (~35%) and showed a 2-4 fold reduction in the variability around the predicted AUC∞ PO of buprenorphine. These results demonstrate the feasibility of using various GRAS/dietary compounds to inhibit substantially the metabolism by CYP and UGT enzymes to achieve higher and less variable oral bioavailability. This inhibitor strategy may be useful for drugs suffering from low and variable oral bioavailability due to extensive presystemic oxidative and/or conjugative metabolism.



Keywords: GRAS/dietary compounds; buprenorphine; enzyme inhibition; in vitro-in vivo extrapolation (IVIVE); oral bioavailability.
 
part 2: https://www.bluelight.org/community...ve-buprenorphine-oral-bioavailability.945762/
(using
excerpt from thread: α-mangostin, chrysin, ginger extract, pterostilbene and silybin. pterostilbene and ginger increased the bioavailability of oral up to 35% i believe)
i wonder if this works for other meds, because i have a funny feeling that it does. it even states at the end that it could be used for other low-bioavailability drugs






Abstract

The present study evaluated the potential of five generally recognized as safe (GRAS) or dietary compounds (α-mangostin, chrysin, ginger extract, pterostilbene and silybin) to inhibit oxidative (CYP) and conjugative (UGT) metabolism using pooled human intestinal and liver microsomes. Buprenorphine was chosen as the model substrate as it is extensively metabolized by CYPs to norbuprenorphine and by UGTs to buprenorphine glucuronide. Chrysin, ginger extract, α-mangostin, pterostilbene and silybin were tested for their inhibition of the formation of norbuprenorphine or buprenorphine glucuronide in both intestinal and liver microsomes. Pterostilbene was the most potent inhibitor of norbuprenorphine formation in both intestinal and liver microsomes, with IC50 values of 1.3 and 0.8 μM, respectively, while α-mangostin and silybin most potently inhibited buprenorphine glucuronide formation. The equipotent combination of pterostilbene and ginger extract additively inhibited both pathways in intestinal microsomes. Since pterostilbene and ginger extract showed potent CYP and/or UGT inhibition of buprenorphine metabolism, their equipotent combination was tested to assess the presence of synergistic inhibition. However, because the combination showed additive inhibition, it was not used while performing IVIVE analysis. Based on quantitative in vitro-in vivo extrapolation, pterostilbene (21 mg oral dose) appeared to be most effective in improving the mean predicted Foral and AUC∞ PO of buprenorphine from 3 ± 2% and 340 ± 330 ng*min/ml to 75 ± 8% and 36,000 ± 25,000 ng*min/ml, respectively. At a 10-fold lower dose of pterostilbene, the predicted buprenorphine Foral approximated sublingual bioavailability (~35%) and showed a 2-4 fold reduction in the variability around the predicted AUC∞ PO of buprenorphine. These results demonstrate the feasibility of using various GRAS/dietary compounds to inhibit substantially the metabolism by CYP and UGT enzymes to achieve higher and less variable oral bioavailability. This inhibitor strategy may be useful for drugs suffering from low and variable oral bioavailability due to extensive presystemic oxidative and/or conjugative metabolism.



Keywords: GRAS/dietary compounds; buprenorphine; enzyme inhibition; in vitro-in vivo extrapolation (IVIVE); oral bioavailability.
One note of caution.

This one study found that daily dosing of 100 mg pterostilbine for 6-8 weeks has a dyslipidemic effect, both increasing LDL (bad cholesterol) while decreasing HDL (good cholesterol) levels.

Especially if one is planning on using this daily to potentiate buprenorphine, I would advise caution and for people to consider the balance of harms versus benefit of getting more out of a given dose.

Edit:

I found the study you cited in your above post, and was able to get around the paywall with scihub. It looks like the IC50 for pterostilbine is around 1 micromolar for inhibition of oxidative metabolism (formation of norbuprenorphine) and 30-45 micromolar for inhibition of conjugative metabolism (formation of buprenorphine glucuronide).

These are relatively high concentrations, and these experiments were done in intestinal and liver microsomes, which can be expected to overestimate potency (as they are not going to account for any pterostilbine metabolism at any other sites).

They performed Monte Carlo simulations on the effects of different pterostilbine doses on a 10 mg buprenorphine dose, and one thing that stuck out was an extremely large variability of the buprenorphine AUC as the levels of pterostilbine approach 20 mg.

I would worry that this extreme variability could be pretty undesired as it could leave people over medicated one day, and withdrawing the next. Attempting to titrate one’s dose up or down could worsen this effect due to the high variability in AUC. They note in the paper that sublingual (8 mg) is much more consistent than oral dosing with enzyme inhibitors.
 
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Buprenorphine is a bore of a drug anyway, whether it has good bioavailability or not.

Now getting norbuprenorphine to cross the blood brain barrier & staying there would be more of an exciting venture, though impossible I think.
 
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