[Bupe] Is it all in my head?

[epiks]

After many failed attempts at staying off heroin, I decided to try a different method with my suboxone. I used to just stop doing dope and take my subs until finally I would relapse. But I always tapered my dose way way down. For example last time I did this I was on 1/16th every other day. Then I fucked up and got back on opiates.

Anyways, the new method was just to cut a week back off each month. So 3 weeks on dope, 1 week on subs, all the way down to no dope. I haven't used dope in two weeks and am not planning on going back (cross your fingers!) and for some strange reason that I never thought would happen, I actually feel normal. I am legitimately content with my life. I have my energy back, I'm not depressed(used to have severe depression, reason for opiates) only mild anxiety which I can deal with. And no, nothing changed in my life, like winning the lotto. Its still shitty in everyone elses eyes. But I don't care, I'm happy! Yes, I'm still on suboxone so that could be a factor, but I used to be on 24mg and never once felt this good. I was 100% clean for six months and still felt like shit. I've NEVER felt this content in my life! Even before drugs.

Now..onto the actual question! But before that, take a look at my taper schedule.

Day 1 - 6mg
Day 2 - 4mg
Day 3 - 4mg
Day 4 - 2mg
Day 5 - 2mg
Day 6 - 1mg
Day 7 - .5mg
Day 8-14 - 1/16mg

The last few days I've tried to go to "every other day" but it seems right around the 24-26hr mark I get a flashes of cold sweats. Then my anxiety goes crazy thinking im gonna be sick. Absolutely nothing severe. I know I was on opiates for a long time but still..I shouldn't be feeling that. I think its 100% mental. Another reason I think that is, one morning I forgot and didnt dose until 6PM (for the last two weeks I've taken it at 10am every single day)

Now I'm thinking its my bodies newly formed habit. Saying HEY ITS 10 AM TAKE YOUR DAMN SUBS!

Does anyone have any tips on how to overcome the mental part? I think some of it has to do with my anxiety issues. I always freak out "OMG I'm gonna be sick!!" Even tho thats not possible cause if I was legitimately sick I could just take a sub..My mind is all fucked up tho.

Or do you think its got nothing to do mentally? Do you think its possible I could really be feeling sick after only 24hrs on such a low doseage? I thought it had like a 36hr half life or something?

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

Psychologically you are not ready. I can see it quite clear. Keep a maintenance dose and get counseling. This will help you get rid of fears that are stopping you from success.

 

[clifford]

I've talked about this on a different post, but i'll share my advice on it again. I had a bundle a day habit, went to rehab, relapsed, you know the drill. So I found out about and decided to give it a shot, and it did wonders for me.

Now I know everyone can't go to the doctor and get a Rx every month so they buy it on the street, so they're forced to make due with what they have. In my opinion, the success rate for what your doing is fairly low unfortunately, although I really wish you the best of luck. This is again, in my opinion based on my own experiences and experiences from friends. Based on what I've been through and seeing others go through it, I really believe in its ability to completely turn a persons life around for the better and I feel as if I know enough about it to provide some good helpful advice. (I hope)

Little background on how it works- the buprenorphine binds to the opiate receptors in the brain, and it is a partial-antagonist. It binds to the receptors but doesn't tweak them as much as would dope or other opiates resulting in the high. So my take on it is that your body is kind of tricked. Physically, its as if you've taken opiates, leaving your mind at ease, without cravings or urges to use. However your not getting high, not blowing all your money (and everyones money we can steal), and we're not putting ourselves in harms way all the time dealing with all the shit we do the cop. Therapeutically speaking, this is magical to me. Your actually reconditioning your way of thinking and changing your lifestyle from getting high every day to....well not. Establishing a maintenance dose for some length of time would greatly increase your chance for success than using it essentially to not go through withdraw. It helps body and mind become accustomed to the lack of opiates in your system

Your just covering the physical part, but you don't benefit from the therapeutic value of the drug. I feel its really just a matter of how long it takes to feel comfortable knowing you don't have that opiate blocker to take and the option to use is out there. I have even heard of people who even opted into staying on a very small dose long term, just for piece of mind. Again with the mental part, but I totally get this one. Taking a pill every day, even being a very small dose probably doing little to nothing at all would calm the addict is us - that satisfaction of taking a pil.. Personally, once I felt comfortable with the idea of not being on suboxone anymore, I began to start getting off the subs and I stayed clean for almost 3 years (I played rugby and got injured, had a complete AC separation which require reconstructive surgery on my shoulder. Needless to say I had a bit of a struggle w/ pain killers, never went back to dope tho, and I was able to cut it out before it got me back to being a total feign again.)

As far as your doses, it is my understanding that yes, a few mg's of suboxone will give u some help, but its not as effective in trying to quit totally. I was presribed 24 mg's of suboxone for the first month or so which the doc explained that a high dose like that ensures that all of the opiates that my body was used to would be covered by that dose. That dose was eventually reduced until a couple months later, I was on 8 mg's per day for about a year, and then over the course of a couple weeks to a month slowly, gradually reduced the dosages until I was off. Mild discomfort getting off em if u do it right, but as you know, its essentially just a replacement so withdraw will still be an issue if your not careful. Not everyone is on it that long, and some people are on it longer, its all based on individual circumstances. Its important to take your dose all at once, not taking a little bit and when u feel sick later take some more. That's not how its going to be most effective. It's got a long half-life so if you just take the correct amount you really shouldn't need it again untill the next day.

And yes, its extremely mental, your 100% right about that. I even forgot days sometimes but I wouldn't even notice anything until I remembered that I forgot to take it. Certain months when I couldn't get my Rx on time, I found I was able to go as much as 2 or 3 days without feeling terribly bad (day 3 was about all I could handle though). Because your expecting to get sick, and your just waiting and waiting knowing its going to come, chances are your going to feel sick, and its exaggerated because of the anticipation. Mind over matter man, its a powerful thing. Like I said, when I was on suboxone I forgot to take it all the time and sometimes I wouldn't even realize till the half way through the next day and I had felt fine. Other times, I realized in the afternoon that I never took it that morning, was freaked out about it, and actually started to feel a little lousy 10 mins later.

I wish you all the luck in the world, anyone who's been there understands the odds seem stacked against us. Take care of that shit, or else where are are you gana be in 20 years you know? I am a completely different person now that i'm not using. Not like an N.A freak or something like that but I'm just a normal guy - finished college, looking for jobs, etc. I've seen a lot lof people succeed and also a lot of people get stuck in the circle of use-relapse-use-relapse. I hope your one of the ones that succeed. If you got any questions or anything shoot me a message

 

[effie]

Some excellent advice here

If you want to talk about the psychological side of addiction, take a look at The Dark Side forum - full of lovely people who have had similar difficulties. The buprenorphine megathread in OD is also full of useful info.

Good luck!

 

[euphoricc]

I JUST HAVE READ THIS THREAD i just stopped suboxone and man it was bad not as bad a heroin but its up there it been 2 weeks i been using kratom its just messin with my head!!! i been so hot and cold temperature up and down.shittin wont stop either ill give it max 1 week more

 

[nsauce]

I was on subutex for about 18-20 months. Last dose of sub was 35 days ago. I am still not functional enough to work, or do much of anything. I have extreme fatigue, depression, lack of motivation, and just generally feel like garbage. Not everyone can taper off subs and feel great. Be very careful taking subs, you are really just substituting one addiction for another. I wish I had just gone CT off the norcos I was taking, I would be back to normal by now, but i stupidly trusted my doctor and didn't do my homework on sub. I am now paying the price for my ignorance. Death would be a blessing right now. Just be very careful taking sub, the withdrawals are likely far worse than the withdrawals from your DOC .

 

[OhSeeAT]

@nsauce If you think withdrawl off Suboxone is worse than your DOC, than consider yourself lucky. Oxy/Opana/Heroin withdrawl is 10x worse than withdrawl off Suboxone.

OP, You know it's mostly mental, but that can be a very powerful force to change, and a lot of people aren't up for the challenge. It's easier to just take your subs, with me I would feel the SLIGHTEST bit of discomfort/coldness/bad mood, and be like Oh shit better shove a sub under my tongue. So in essence it's just like using any other drug as far as my mind's ability to cope with unfavorable situations. If you really want to kick it, you have to be focused on getting better, not focused on not being sick. In the long run, you will be better off if you can kick it asap. With that being said, only you truly know IF YOUR READY TO GET OFF. If you are still thinking about doing dope or tossing the idea around, just stay on subs for now. Hopefully after a little bit, you can genuinely want to get off everything, and not fuck up and go through the cycle again.

Good Luck

 

[nsauce]

Ive w/d CT from H numerous times, and CT off 100mg methadone in prison . While H is much more intense than the Sub withdrawal, it lasts nowhere NEAR as long, and the methadone w/d lasts much longer than any of them. This isn't my first rodeo.