British teenager dies in Colombia after drinking hallucinogenic drug in ritual

Folley said:
Let's not forget that MAOIs are needed in ayahuasca, and that even certain foods eaten before an MAOI can be deadly. Ayahuasca can kill, it certainly has before.. it has quite the potential for serious consequence if made improperly.
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Good point
 
^Yeah, there was another article published in Drugs in the Media recently that brought up the "dangers of ayahuasca" and never mentioned that. I mentioned it in the comments section of the article and emailed the writer (never responded.) This case of course looks to involve an automobile accident, but of all the cases where it looks like the ingestion of ayahuasca chemically led to the imbiber's death drug interaction with the MAOIs is almost certainly the predominant cause of mortality. Commonly prescribed anti-depressants can become deadly in the presence of MAOIs.

There's a better article that brings this up with regard to unregulated ayahuasca tourism, here.
Few experts blame the concoction itself. Alan Shoemaker, who organizes an annual shamanism conference in Iquitos, says, "Ayahuasca is one of the sacred power plants and is completely nonaddictive, has been used for literally thousands of years for healing and divination purposes . . . and dying from overdose is virtually impossible."

Still, no one monitors the medicine men, their claims, or their credentials. No one is making sure they screen patients for, say, heart problems, although ayahuasca is known to boost pulse rates and blood pressure. (When French citizen Celine René Margarite Briset died from a heart attack after taking ayahuasca in the Amazonian city of Yurimaguas in 2011, it was reported she had a preexisting heart condition.) And though many prospective ayahuasca-takers – people likely to have been prescribed antidepressants – struggle with addiction and depression, few shamans know or care to ask about antidepressants like Prozac, which can be deadly when mixed with ayahuasca. Reports suggested that a clash of meds killed 39-year-old Frenchman Fabrice Champion, who died a few months after Briset in an Iquitos-based lodge called Espiritu de Anaconda (which had already experienced one death and has since changed its name to Anaconda Cosmica). No one has been charged in either case.
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Wheresmeticket? said:
The whole tone of the report is set up to create a tragic victim of unscrupulous foreign types who ARENT LIKE US! They have no morals, no sense of the value of human life and give bad drugs to nice boys from civilised countries. He is referred to as a polite young man with no ego. So the suggestion is that he wasn't secretly using phenethylamines and dope and anything else he can get his hands on back home whilst succesfully hiding this from his parents. Because polite young men don't do this, right? I'm not saying he was, but how would they know? There are many drug tourists in the world, from those that jump on a coach to Amsterdam from the UK to get stoned in cafes to those that fly to Phnom Penh to smoke opium and party on smack and yaaba. Heading off to Colombia to partake of a local ayahuasca brew having done the chemicals at home looks to me like another version of this. The fact that the (usually) young people who do this are participating in their own rituals of adulthood and exploration and that this risk-taking is a necessary part of developing as a a human is one of the complex socio-psychological contexts that explain drug use. Newspapers will NEVER explain this. They are not NEWS papers, they are entertainment businesses which use "real-life" events as the basis for stories which reinforce people in their beliefs and prejudices. Challenging people to think again will not increase their profits, sadly. 8( Mr Angry.
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Yes, this is a great post!
I agree.
 
I can't imagine why you'd want to trip with a bunch of strangers who are fleecing you for the experience. It's the antithisis of everything that psychedelics should mean. Psychedelics arn't about man-made bullshit religious rituals, they're about you and the drug. That's the whole beauty of them. There's no fucking priest or shaman required.
 
treezy z said:
even if they dumped his body by the side of the road, if he was already dead it's better for his corpse to be gotten rid of anonymously than have more people's lives ruined.
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No, it's better that the reasons for the death be propoerly investigated (drug interactions, Yage brew admixtures, dodgy unprepared brew providers, etc) so that in the future noone else dies from the same reason. If the death was due, at least in part, to the providers of the yage - and it could well be - then it's better that they're investigated & if necessary prevented from running future sessions, or at least know not to accept people on X medication say.

I heard this story reported on the radio, headline didn't say yage or ayahuasca, only hallucinogenic drug ritual but I figured it'd be ayahuasca. In the actual piece they did name it as yage though. The radio report did say he'd taken the brew twice that session, first time had no effect so he drank again. It also reported that they'd found the ayahuasca session because it was advertised in their youth hostel & that after he'd taken his 2nd brew he'd passed out or something & the 'shaman' or yage providers took him away telling his mate they'd take care of him. Apparently next thing he was found dead.
 
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British kid drinks Ayahuasca, dies.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ar-teen-dies-after-Amazonian-drug-ritual.html

The fellow traveller, who is half French and half English, met Mr Miller on Sunday when they travelled together from a hostel in Mocoa to land belonging to a local shaman.
The fellow traveller said the drug had no effect on Mr Miller the first time but on the second occasion he became very ill.
He said the group of about eight people, including Mr Miller, were all sick after drinking the drug, a normal reaction to its unpleasant taste.
But while the rest of the group came around from the "trip", Mr Miller did not.
The fellow traveller said: "He just got worse and worse. He was lying face down on the ground making very weird breathing noises. We picked him up and put him in a chair," according to the Mail.
"He wasn't speaking, he was lashing out with his hands and feet. Then he started making weird animal noises, pig sounds and at one point he tried to fly. He kept saying, 'What's going on, oh my God' and holding his face."
The shaman's family told the tourists they would look after him but when they woke up in the morning Mr Miller was not there.
Police arrived and showed them a picture of Mr Miller's body, which was reported to have been dumped by a dirt road.

Don't know what happened to him, apparently there are brujos in Colombia who pretend to be respected shamans and lure in innocent european backpackers in order to steal their souls.
 
Already posted SaciPerere -

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...-after-drinking-hallucinogenic-drug-in-ritual

When an article is over a week old it is always a good idea to do a 'forum search' (found in the right hand top corner, next to 'forum tools') a good way to search is the persons name, I mean you can search for say 'Ayahuasca' but it might bring up quite a few hits from over the yrs, if you use the persons name ie 'Henry Miller' that is a good way to see if the same article has been posted.

You may know all this, just thought I'd mention it, it's no biggie anyway, it will be merged by a mod.

Cheers.
 
I'm from Brazil, this might sound as 3rd world drivel or urban legend, but there are both good and evil shamans(brujos). Brujos often pretend to be shamans and lure the innocent, usually tourists who are more vulnerable for a variety of reasons, in order to "drink"(syphon) their souls. Sometimes they rape or torture their victims in order to feed from their fear, this process might end up draining the target from all life. If you ever come down to S.America, be careful with your shaman.

Obs: theres actually a discussion on whether brujos are "evil" or not, many of them are skilled healers but prefer dealing with Exus("wicked" "trickster" spirits). Nevertheless you should stay away from them, unless you have been recently blessed by a true shaman.
 
Its good to hear your perspective indeed, this is something I never heard of but it does sound a bit like an urban legend

Do you know this for sure, is it proven like with documented cases?
 
Vice is nothing but a tabloid and full of sensationalism.

But I agree that if the person who makes the Ayahuasca or yage does not know what they are doing it can be toxic, or they can put whatever they want into it.

SaciPerere said:
I'm from Brazil, this might sound as 3rd world drivel or urban legend, but there are both good and evil shamans(brujos). Brujos often pretend to be shamans and lure the innocent, usually tourists who are more vulnerable for a variety of reasons, in order to "drink"(syphon) their souls. Sometimes they rape or torture their victims in order to feed from their fear, this process might end up draining the target from all life. If you ever come down to S.America, be careful with your shaman.

Obs: theres actually a discussion on whether brujos are "evil" or not, many of them are skilled healers but prefer dealing with Exus("wicked" "trickster" spirits). Nevertheless you should stay away from them, unless you have been recently blessed by a true shaman.
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I agree with this.

I know Westerners who go to Brasil, Peru, etc. and it's obvious they are drug tourists, and they do not respect the drug.

I know people who did get into taking Ayahuasca and they told me how it's not something for most Westerners or for people who want to use a new drug, trip, etc. and that you do run the risk of going insane unless you take it with a reputable guide or shaman that knows what they are doing.

I have no desire to ever use it.

Someone I know took a very small amount in a ceremony and he said it was as though he has telepathy but he said that the very large doses you hear about people taking are not always good to take.
 
Seen a couple of these stories. Seems like ayuhuasca can be dangerous (no shit I guess). Yet if it was regulated, so that shamanistic groups had to be licensed, with professional oversight, I can see these reports dropping to near zero.

The drugs use is generally ignored because most of its use is for religious purposes.

I think these stories are a little bit more prevalent and grandiose than they need to be. Sounds like it was contaminated too, so ipso facto...regulate it?
 
^ without getting too much into the ethics or rationale behind people undertaking these "traditional rites" - do you think government regulation and indigenous ayahuasca ceremonies are mutually exclusive?
(Serious question, not necessarily a critique)
 
If it was a critique I wouldn't be offended. Nevertheless

Are you asking me if I think government should regulate indigenous ayahuasca use? Well that's a tough question. I would opt to say "half way". That is, as stated above, government should license groups to provide this service (cause that's what it is). Then they should stay out of the way unless someone dies or suffers a permanent malady. Individuals participating should sign a waiver, but of course that doesn't mean death should be ignored. I believe people have the right to know exactly what they're taking. That includes the ingredients as well as the dosage. It would behoove them to participate in a seminar on how the drug would affect them too, perhaps hosted by the group offering the ceremony. I doubt these provisions would be included without government mandating them.

That said, these reports are in the news because they are sensational - teenager dies after drinking hallucinogenic brew in the rain forest, dumped in ditch by shady shamans. A teenager dying after taking fifteen shots then lying down on his stomach to asphyxiate in his own vomit is just too typical, though it happens a lot, lot more frequently than someone dying from a contaminated DMT-containing brew.
 
I guess my clarification re: "question not critique" is that it is all too easy to read a question as an argument, and I'm sort of ambivalent about my feelings on that one. Also, some people have been getting offended at my opposing viewpoints in recent days, so I figured I would make it clear, haha.

I totally agree that a tourist dying after taking a hallucinogenic brew is far more "newsworthy" (read; sensationalist) for the western media than a more familiar drug taking a life in more mundane circumstances - alcohol being a pretty common cause of fatal misadventures, as you say.
Wouldn't even rate a mention...unless the person is a 'celebrity' or some nonsense.

Death and drugs - two of most newspapers' favourite subjects - and in a "foreign" land, to top it off.

I used the example of government regulation because I didnt consider too many other ways of going about it.

Part of the allure of travelling to these parts of the world to consume ayahuasca/yage, from my understanding, is some sense of experiential 'authenticity'.
Whether or not this is misguided is a whole other conversation (I think) - but if one is going to take this kind of risk - in the belief that they are participating in an ancient ceremonial custom, it seems to sort of defy that logic to have the sort of safety disclaimers that westerners are accustomed to. Ayahuasca "Nutrition Facts".

Drug tourism is generally a fairly risky undertaking (except perhaps in countries with liberal drug laws) - and if we add the ritualistic element of people's intentions in seeking out drug experiences abroad - listing the composition of the brew (in local terminology? Botanical nomenclature? Chemical composition? All of which may be essentially gibberish to your average ayahuasca tourist) seems to be contrary to the whole purpose of taking this risk.
Take away the mystery and magic people are seeking in these ceremonies, and cracks start appearing in the myth of the authentic 'shamanic' adventure.

Tourist dollars are an important part of some of these communities' economies, and the ethics of this kind of drug tourism are debatable. Does it decrease the need for further deforestation and degradation of the land?
Or is it exploitative (of local customs, tourists' ignorance - or indeed the natural environment [i don't know how much impact the collection of the necessary plant matter has on the land, how sensitive these plants are to becoming endangered or what sort of negative impact - if any - there is in supporting this industry])?

Perhaps an advisory body of sorts could assess the various groups and individuals offering ayahuasca to tourists, and rate them (if such a thing does not already exist) according to safety, how trustworthy and legit each one is?
It's a tricky one. I don't want this post to seem like I am unfairly critical of people that travel to South America and take ayahuasca - but if people are dying, it seems that doing so is putting your life in the hands of people you have no ability to accurately assess in terms of their care or respect.
Having said that, what western newspapers report is very often blown out of all proportion and context - especially on the topic of psychoactive drugs.
 
The world is evolving. I don't see a problem with people fulfilling their ancient customs but no one lives in a vacuum; the world is a pretty globalized place these days, and without growing up in that culture there are additional risks to participating in such a ritual. I furthermore tend to think that these rituals aren't so sanctified as they used to be if there are groups soliciting their participation.

How authentic would the ritual actually seem to your average Westerner? I doubt that they'd notice much of a difference if, say, they were simply told to stop ingesting the product after a certain point or if there was a doctor on the premises. Apart from those two stipulations, I think the bureaucratic part of the process would happen outside of the ritual, so wouldn't dampen it.

The point is to minimize risk while maximizing utility. If one doesn't know what they're taking I'd be inclined to say they shouldn't take it. Especially when it comes with unpredictable drugs - of which psychedelics are.

Never heard of deforestation in connection with ayahuasca usage.

I'd say it would be a fairly mutual happening if there was some quality control.
 
Re: deforestation - I was thinking more in terms of the possibility that making a living from tourist dollars may serve to in some way preserve the forest, as other industries (such as forestry or agriculture) have a devastating impact on the land when the jungle is cleared).
And I was really just musing about the impact of tourist ayahuasca trade on the various plants in question - along the lines of the scarcity of peyote in its natural habitat. Like I say, I don't really know - just elements of what I would consider the 'pros and cons' of this tourist-focused industry being able to thrive.
If there is an abundance of the necessary ingredients growing wild, then it is not a major concern; as I mentioned above, it could have a positive impact on conservation - i admit to being ignorant in this matter.
'Tis an interesting topic, and I get the sense that a fair amount of cross-cultural misinformation is spread through the western media.
Psychedelics are certainly unpredictable, but taken with care - and as you suggest - proper education and safeguards in place (such as checking whether or not the ceremony's attendees are taking any medication, for instance) - they need not be life-threateningly dangerous.
When certain species of nightshade/datura are added to the mix, however...the safety profile of ayahuasca goes out the window, unless the guide/shaman/brujo truly knows how to safely use it (and even then, I'd be wary).
 
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You mean may destroy the forest? By building giant homes on the frontier? I could see that, but I don't think a lot of Westerners want to get their kick drinking DMT; not enough that it would destroy a significant more amount of forest than logging and agriculture have at least.

Let's do a little research:

http://www.journalofnaturalproducts.com/Volume5/17_Res_paper-16.pdf This one doesn't have anything on negative socio-environmental effects but its interesting. Seems as if the problem of regulating it isn't just relegated to the decision of their ministers, but also to a higher amount of law enforcement than just busting people (i.e. combating local elites). I guess its legal as a preparation in Brazil for religious purposes. It also has some interesting information on history and pharmacology. Appears as if the trade to Westerners is growing, not to mention a little more organized than some would think. It doesn't point to much detriment.

Nothing in a ten minute search, just a few on possible therapeutic uses and use in addiction.

Western media (and particularly that of the US) isn't known for being that egaliterian.

Yeah but if you're schizo run away.

There's just something about drinking a nasty brew that some wrinkled old jungle man gives me in a gourd which makes me at least want to know whats in it.
 
No, not at all - what I meant is that tourism could potentially provide an income for people that otherwise may be forced into destructive use of the land in order to make a living - such as clear jungle to make pasture for farming, sell timber - things of that nature.
I'm merely speculating - but I was thinking along the lines of indigenous people being able to retain elements of their cultural heritage in this globalised world (as a positive outcome of ayahuasca tourism).
Granted, as you say - it is not a huge industry, but growing - and hopefully more sustainable than some of the other options which have seen devastating deforestation which in the case of rainforest, leaves very barren soil which is of little use for agriculture.
 
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