Bluelight Stall - Part 3 - Please Read

[atomica]

i dont think anyone doesnt want to pill test.
i sure as hell want to. fuck the pamphlets.. well no, they're good too as an addition...
but i dont want to use the bluelight name, or promo it directly for all my stated reasons.
lets be something independant and i'll stand and test pills till the cows come home

 

[Finn]

Exactly Atomica,
That's kind of what I just said over in the other thread (where I wasn't supposed to but couldn't help it).
The issue is not the pill testing per se. I have not heard one person say that they feel uncomfortable about testing pills for people.
What I have heard some people say, myself included, is that they feel uncomfortable doing pill testing under the banner of bluelight.ru because of the increased likelihood that the project will be discredited because of its association with an arguably pro-drug discussion board.
You can't tell me in all honesty that you don't see how this situation could arise.
While I am all for a grass roots approach and I love a bit of conflict, I believe that this project is worthy of careful and detailed planning. We should not just rush in and do it without assessing the pros and cons of the various approaches available to us.
Some of us have a great deal to lose here. Please don't forget that.

 

[johnboy]

sorry but a few people have said that were worried about the idea of doing pill testing. my post was in response to them, not either of you.
i'll be writing a lot more about this tomorrow but i thought i'd just quote from haste's original post that started all this is off.

... a Bluelight Stall at raves to further the great work we do on this board....

this is what started this this whole thing... funny how things change so quickly...

 

[Finn]

Haste's statement is open to interpretation.
I don't think he was necessarily stating categorically that it should be done under the name of bluelight. I think things have just evolved a little since then.
Haste, if need be, can you clarify this for us.
Thanks
Finn
[This message has been edited by Finn (edited 17 October 2000).]

 

[bananafish]

Look, I'm new around here, so I'm not very sure how it all works, but would like to contribute to this discussion, if that's okay. Please forgive the long post.
This is how I see it:
1. It seems to me that there is a GREAT DEAL OF SUPPORT amongst Bluelighters for the concept of a PILL-TESTING stall to function as a harm minimisation project at events; educating and protecting people we care about. (Personally, I'm all for that.)
2. It also seems clear that Bluelighters are NOT all in agreement about HOW the pill-testing service should be organised, and WHETHER it should be linked officially to Bluelight.
I, for one, want to be *dead clear* on what I am committing to, here, and I have concerns about where we are with the debate.
I can understand people's ethico-legal concerns about the potential risk to their careers and reputations if they are involved actively and visibly in a project run by what can clearly be labelled a pro-drug website; and if they (and punters) are at risk of being questioned by the police about their involvement with illegal drugs in the delicate process of testing. I, too, feel this way.
We are setting up a project which is *ALL ABOUT SAFETY*; and it needs to be safe for *EVERYONE* involved. Risks taken must be measured and taken wisely. People need to be able to commit freely and in clear conscience. Progress of any kind must be cohesive and unequivocal. Surely?
I think the discussion itself is a great thing, as is people reconsidering their opinions as new arguments and ideas develop in open and constructive debate. I'm figuring Bluelight itself wasn't born without considerable debate about which was the best, safest, most powerful and constructive way to go.
I cannot help but wonder if the process has been derailed a bit of late, however, and what are our PRIORITIES in THIS action. Are we acting to promote the Bluelight community per se, or are we acting *specifically* to minimise the risk of harm incurred from taking pills by encouraging pill-testing at events?
I see absolutely nothing wrong with promoting Bluelight at events. If that's what you want to do, Johnboy, go ahead!

We all love it! And it does great work. But why is the separation of the two projects such a bad thing? Why is it sometimes being assumed that to separate pill-testing from Bluelight means being ashamed of Bluelight? More to the point, I think, is doing both things together the most effective way to go, anyway?
It seems to me that running a pill-testing service which is NOT OFFICIALLY AFFILIATED to any particular body means that the service is MORE FREE to fulfil the task, not less. It just seems safer all round.
Personally I go with option 1. I'd like to see the project run independently of Bluelight, yet including Bluelight as *one of several references* on any printed material we may disseminate.
WHERE ARE WE NOW?
I am still waiting to hear back from whoever was talking to Paul Dillon from NDARC, and Tim from Redfern Legal Centre. (I'm also waiting to meet with a D&A contact of mine to discuss these issues.) What's happening there??? I think getting this information may help us to clear up the murky stuff which is getting in the way for so many people.
If you've read this far, thanks for your patience and consideration. Is this making sense to anybody?
LET'S STAY COOL AND KEEP THE FAITH, HERE, GUYS!

bananafish

[This message has been edited by bananafish (edited 17 October 2000).]

 

[E Bee]

How about a poll on the issue of affiliation?
The bluelight stall mailing list moderator could set one up on egroups.
It'd be a good way for bluelighters who don't have the time to post much or attend meetings to have their say.
If we do end up choosing a name other than bluelight for the stall, I'll put up a prize (a bluelight shirt of their choice, perhaps?) for whoever picks the best name (we can work out how to judge/vote later).

 

[haste]

My main concern is helping people keep safe in the scene - I am concerned with peoples lives. My aim was to set up a full functioning and professional organization - set up with a fully structured committee. I'm sorry my plans did not include Bluelight. As things developed and through constant consultation from various community groups I decided that this would be the best approach. Did I make an issue of it no - I allowed the group to make it's own decision. I even stated before hand on Bluelight that if it went down this direction I would not be able to be associated with the project. The decision was made and I have made no objections. For fuck sake go with the idea of having it associated with Bluelight - I HAVE NO OBJECTIONS!!!!!! Why must I be quoted??? Do not people change ideas once things have been further developed?
This is no flame on anyone - I'm just being honest with you all on my feelings - hate me all you want but I was protecting all ofyour interests. Did you think you were going to remain anonymous during this project - did you think that you were going to go through this under your usernames. You have to give up your identities - while some might not have a problem with this - I think many will.
Johnboy - the quote is so irrelevant now. All I can say is grow up. Why must I be quoted??? Do not people change ideas once things have been further developed?Considering all this I am sick of justifying myself for something I beleive is a good idea. This has now reached personal levels and I would prefer not to have anything to do with this project anymore.
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact me - I am open to everyone. I cannot go on because at the moment all enthusiasm I had for the project has been sucked out of me. I know after this post I am not going to be very popular at all - but the truth needs to be said.
Thank you all for your support and kind words over the past couple of weeks.
Thank you
haste
p.s. - I need someone to take over the mailing list - anyone interested?
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"Well, me don't swim too tough so me don't go in the water too deep."-July, 1975 Bob Marley
[This message has been edited by haste (edited 17 October 2000).]

 

[bananafish]

Haste,
Noooooooooo! I'm SO sorry to hear this!

It's all so much unneccessary schism. Haste, I think you've done a really *magnificent* job running this project from the beginning. This can't be happening.

bf

 

[atomica]

well fuck.

i cant believe that open discussion about an issue has led down this path

i know things have gotten a lil bit heated and confused lately but i am of the opinion that if you believe something is right, you should at least fight for it a bit.
frankly i dont understand where the problem actually is, most people dont seem to care either way.. those of us that do are the ones playing on the safe side of things and whats wrong w/ that?
anyways... haste, if thats how you really feel, then i'm really really sorry about it, but i respect your decision.

it will be so hard w/out you tho, and i feel so responsible for all of this. it makes me sad

 

[Soma]

...friendly reminder that we have our own egroups community for the stall. It contains messages, files (like the minutes for those who were wondering where the hell they are). I'm posting things in there rather than using this bluelight thread. http://www.egroups.com/group/Bluelight_Stall
As I'm looking through this thread, please remember folks that all tone in messages is lost once it hits the internet. Lets have a think before we post stuff here and ask - Is it relevant, useful, worthwile and will contribute something contructive to the project.
If its not, please just don't post it!
update:correct link posted
[This message has been edited by Soma (edited 18 October 2000).]

 

[mibrane]

without wanting to speak for ravesafe, as they will do so themselves at tonights meeting, i just wanted to make a couple of quick points.
jb - i think this is really a quite different situation to when we met six months ago. we had just finished a project rather than being about to start another, and the team was extremely tired. also, its precisely the fact that their is an independent momentum from a lot of blers which makes the possibilities much better now than then. we have no desire to absorb what bl stall is trying to do. we will all benefit most with both groups moving forwards with their own agendas and at their own pace, but linking where appropriate, which will probably mean doing parties together. also rs has done parties the last three weekends, and has another booking this week, plus several more over the next months, a big change after several months of hiatus. so the whole momentum now is much different, and there's a lot more possibility for concrete action.
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venceremos - hasta la victoria siempre
Al-Qahira, Ares, Auquakah, Bahram.
Harmarkhis, Hrad, Hou Hsing, Kasei.
Ma'adim, Maja, Mamers, Mangala, Mars.
Nirgal, Shalbatanu, Simud and Tiu.

 

[MíkeySåmmy]

all my respect to you haste, for the time and effort you put in. but i agree, your professional reputation is at stake and i wouldnt risk mine either.

 

[Finn]

As several people have pointed out.....
there are more bluelighters who dont care one way or the other whether this project is affiliated with bluelight, than there are people who do have issues with it being affiliated with bluelight. (phew, long sentence).
As Atomica suggested, can we then go ahead with the project independently of bluelight.
The outcome is the same.... people have access to factual, unbiased information about ecstacy and are able to
have their pills tested at parties free of charge.
As I see it this is a win win situation. There is something to be happy about for everyone.
Going the bluelight route is in many ways a win lose situation - for lots and lots of reasons (already discussed at length).
I could be completely wrong here, and I apologise profusely if I am, but I sense that this only ever became an issue because johnboy decided to play devils advocate.
In doing so he prompted considerable discussion regarding a range of extremely important issues.
While this was initially productive what is beginning to happen however is that the reason for wanting to do this in the first place is becoming lost.
In my opinion, we need to put all of this aside and look at how we can regain our momentum and focus.
This project functioning independently of bluelight will ensure that this STUFF no longer gets in the way of achieving what is important ...... safer use of ecstacy.
Finn

 

[bananafish]

Finn,
I agree with you 100%. Let's create, not destroy. (CRIKEY!! LOL! I *AM* a bloody hippie!!)
OK. Assuming that we have the green light for an INDEPENDENT PILL TESTING STALL, where would we need to go from here?
1. CLARIFY THE LEGAL ISSUES. Finn, was it you who was contacting NDARC and RLC about this? Whoever you are, please identify yourself or someone else will need to call them. (I'm happy to call if need be.)
2. REPORT THIS INFO BACK TO BLUELIGHTERS. Then we can commit clearly to the project, (or not) and move on. Next, table an agenda and...
3. HAVE ANOTHER MEETING OF ALL INTERESTED PARTIES IN EACH CITY TO PLAN FROM THERE. Things like the logistics of how it would all work, organising testers and beginning to liaise with promoters and all that stuff.
Does that sound logical?
bananafish
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"Take your stinking paws off me, you damn dirty ape!" (Taylor, Planet.)

 

[fat tony]

alright here's my opinion-
1. it's come a long way, we have all that is needed to go ahead. labour, FREE testers, and permission from event hosters to do our thing. therefore we have no excuse to wait.
2. at first i was for full bluelight affiliation. but now i'm not. it should be independent (for starters). it should b a fully organised professional comittee (like haste said).
why did i change my mind??? beacause i think we need haste, atomica, finn etc. to make this go ahead, and all the other people who can't b affiliated because of potential damage to reputation. theres heaps of support for this BUT we need these driving forces behind it. these are the people that have demonstrated that they GET SHIT DONE !! IMHO, i think we need them.
so we set up the stall under another organisation/commitee, all VERY professional. we test pills in the name of harm minimisation.
and we print the flyers for the stall to hand out. these contain imformation on pill testing, and possible contents of pills. and some common sense stuff, like a beware section (avoid getting ripped off, stay healthy etc...).
our separate organisation DONATES money to our bluelight org. to print off their flyers. containing all the rest of the info, as well as the business cards directly promoting bluelight. this is the bluelight org. their aim is to get ppl on bluelight, directing them to the aussie section, and the best info.
so these two organisations work side by side (like ravesafe and BL would in theory), but they are different. the people that are not comfortable being linked to BL belong to the separate org. the people that wan't to can be affiliated to both, or just to the bluelight one.
so possibly i see two stalls, side by side, one under the bluelight banner. one under the pilltesting banner. or if not this, then the bluelight printed material/cards is brought to each rave/party in a *fat* box. entrusted to the bluelight comittee at the start of the night and handed out. BL comittee can also do this in their own time if they want, take home, give to friends etc...
so the pilltesting org comes FIRST. under a separate name, allowing haste etc. to lead the way coz they rule and they get shit done. this allows all us younger, less experienced BL's to get a feel for the thing. then JB whips us all into line, and we start the BL org. at our own risk.
we have all that we need, lets fucking do it!!
and sydney ppl, don't wait for melb ppl. if we can do it now, do it. even under different names, we can merge later, no???
now here's where u all rip holes in my brilliant plan.

go for it.
tony

 

[purplelisa]

ok so i have kinda scaned through all the millions of messages regarding this stall butr i have seen no real steps in getting it up and happening. I am youth work student who has looked in to doing this my self (through an assingment) but in the process i found out about bluelighters, and there efforts to do the same thing. For those on the mailing list i have sent a copy of my assingment. so i think you need to do a recap of all that has actully happened to get this far, because i think i have missed something somewhere. you say you need legal advice well has anyone gone to get it??? As i have said in the mailing list Redfern legal centre is VERY willing to lend a hand and i am currently in the process of phone tag with the guy. what do you want to know? have you looked into insurance issues for the ppl on the stand or the culb/rave you have it in? do you have a clear idea on the stakeholders/stratigies/ outcomes/ect? have you spoken to the police about any of this (if you do you will find that they are suspriseingly supportive). i hope i have missed something somewhere and active steps are being taken. if anything needs to be done i am willing. Oh and we are (for another assignment) doing a servay of what people think of the whole stall idea and if they would support it or not. i will keep you informed on the results.
sorry
purplelisa

 

[GoNeGoOsE]

OK, since i am presently not physically in Aust and therefore cannot contribute and haf kept my views to myself.
BUt here's what i think.
let's not get into politics of whether or not to be affliated to bluelight or not.
The ball IS rolling wif go ahead for all these to happen.
We have the testers, we have the knowledge, someone work out the legalities LET'S JUST DO IT!!! (i quite support JB on everyone wearing BL T-shirts and carrying testers ard)
Print out pamphlets now and get the pill testing on the way!!
From experience, setting up FORMAL committees (tho' necessary) merely sets things back.
I understand that we want to take it slow and do it right but certain things will haf to be ironed out when things actually happen.
I'm sorry i cannot offer any assistance in the mean time however as soon as i get back i will.
in the mean time, to all those invovled GREAT WORK!!!!
-GoOse-
P.S. let's not all lose interest or be dishearted just because of something minor alrite?? =)

 

[k2436]

The way I see it is that the bottom line is to get the pill testing done. The stall should do a few trial runs at some lowkey events and then see how everything works out. Perhaps even do surveys so it get public opinions on how it operates and how they think it should operate.
Once the project is off the drawing board and into the rave the affiliations can be discussed. At the very least the project can simply be marked 'bluelight approved' and 'dancesafe approved'. It does not have to be directly linked to bluelight, but rather indirectly. I feel that this is only a technicality and my own opinions of bluelight is that it is a pro-choice site rather then a pro-drug site. What I mean is that I get the impression that BL stands by the ideal that every person should have their own choice on what drug he/she wants to take and they should also have all the information possible on every drug they are considering taking. The stall will offer the public information, and that is what BL does. I dont see any problem if a link is formed between BL and the stall, infact it is a bonus as it will ultimately serve to increase public awareness in relation to drugs.
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Surrender to the fantasy at Disneyland, where the armguards bash the stuffings out of u while singing, "Its a small world after all.."

 

[Soma]

I've been avoiding posting in this forum - prefering the mail list set up for this project.
However, just this once I'd like to say here:
The stall in its present incarnation will not be officially linked to Bluelight whatsoever.
Please direct your comments to topics other than affiliation.
Regards,
Soma.

 

[haste]

hahhahaha I gotta love this - it's like a merry go round. Can you please give everyone a reason why it has now been decided not to be affiliated - I would just like to know, especially after jb quoting me

And especially after the second meeting where the side of non-affiliation was not even heard.
Whats that, I sound angry - nah not angry, just hurt - but it doesn't matter, not like any of this is personal.
thanks
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"Well, me don't swim too tough so me don't go in the water too deep."-July, 1975 Bob Marley