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Blocking mdma neurotoxicity

Preload with high doses of Vitamin C. I like the chewable kind.
 
There are many things you can use. All of which can be bought online.

Piracetam Is a must when rolling, not only does it protect tremendously against neurotoxicity it will make you roll harder off one or two pills (depending on your tolerance) than you did your first time. Its a much more clear headed roll and much more profound as well. It lasts longer just keep taking piracetam the whole night and smoking weed and you wont crash you will feel absolutely wonderful all week.

Alpha lipoic acid is a powerful antioxident that helps in leaps and bounds

green tea extract contains a VERY powerful antioxident along with a chemical that blocks a certain enzyme in your liver to keep the mdma in your system longer and some caffiene

there are many more im pretty fucked up right now though
 
The inclusion of MAOIs in that list seems incredibly dangerous. Someone will mess up the order and get themself dead.

Something like this topic: done to death.
 
^The selective B ones are fine..

I think it's silly to have SRI's(yes, fuck you pharma for calling them SSRI's, a fucking obnoxious and somewhat devious/misleading name) in that list without explaining their use in preventing neurotoxicity.

I.E. you take the SRI after you Roll. Otherwise you won't even roll.
 
rocknroll714 said:
Yeah and this is ADD. You don't really go into how or why those drugs/supplements block MDMA's neurotoxicity for the most part, besides basic things like "increases serotonin levels" or "antioxidant". Many of them are also irrelevant.. like milk thistle, taurine, GABA, and so forth. Much of your information is incorrect as well; for instance, cat's claw is not a "powerful" MAO-B inhibitor; in fact, from most people's experience it does little to absolutely nothing at all. Also, the dopamine precursors on your list have been shown to exacerbate MDMA's neurotoxicity in scientific studies. And the list is messy and inconclusive.. there's no categorization, and, for instance, where's L-tryptophan? What about MAO-B inhibitors besides selegiline like rasagiline and pargyline? How about COX inhibitors such as aspirin, ibuprofen, and naproxen? You don't even include SRIs. Seriously, no offense, but that thing is a wreck.
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Do you want to go along and try to prove it wrong?
I dont go in to detail of what and each do, but i have them in detail but well like most people i dont have the time, i go to university and doing well for my self.

Cat's claw although a natural product, your not going to expect powerful to be at the same level as a synthetic product, but for a herb, comparing to other catechin/plants etc, its among the strongest.

Do i need to go in to detail now?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14692725
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14692725


and you mention

Also, the dopamine precursors on your list have been shown to exacerbate MDMA's neurotoxicity in scientific studies. And the list is messy and inconclusive.. there's no categorization, and, for instance, where's L-tryptophan?
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Okay what are you exactly trying to prove? did you even go on to read the whole thread?
I already mentioned that "IT IS NOT WISE TO TAKE L-DOPA within a few days before and after MDMA" as it as you said exacerbate MDMA's neurotoxicity....

and lets keep going shall we,
L-Tryptophan. we are talking about replenishing serotonin levels, and post MDMA;
Tryptophan Decarboxylase
Tyrosine Decarboxylase
These enzymes are deactivated by oxidation of the sulfur bonds and rendered useless for a good part of a week post-MDMA, so your not going to get much of an effect off L-Tryptophan, let me know if you want some journal links anytime.

What about MAO-B inhibitors besides selegiline like rasagiline and pargyline? How about COX inhibitors such as aspirin, ibuprofen, and naproxen? You don't even include SRIs. Seriously, no offense, but that thing is a wreck.
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Why do i need to have mentioned rasagiline and pargyline?
Selegiline is cheaper, much easier to get a hold of.
Rasagiline is almost 4 times the cost of Selegiline. Selegiline cheapest it comes to is 100 tablets for $50, Rasagiline is almost double that price with half the quantity.
Pargyline well, i barely see any studies about its efficient, not to mention online pharmacy vendor that sells it.

So your saying why didnt i include SSRI's?
Can that not be more obvious to you?
SSRI's are known to permanently alter gene expression at 5-HT1a,
5-HT1a activation is known to cause prolong ED. This is why people on SSRI's can not maintain a erection, i can pretty much tell you this in first hand experience.
and not to mention MDMA uses this receptor for majority of its effects. Do you now wonder why people who have taken SSRI's most of them do not roll like they should?



Edit: I'm going to wait for people to flame you for writing about how safe SSRI's are for "harm protection" post mdma.. wait it causes more harm then good, thats if you like to call SSRI induced gene expression harm and not to mention receptor down regulation it causes, oh and also it further depletes serotonin? why, let me tell you, SSRI's are used for people who are pretty much fucked anyway,
SSRI's work by sending serotonin from one place to another, it pretty much makes the road one way, it does not increase serotonin in anyway but more so the efficiency of the serotonin to the various receptors and sub receptors.

Post MDMA, you have elevated MAO activity for some time, obviously to get rid of the excess serotonin lying around, some of which get stored back in to storage vesicles to be used again.. Now if your stupid enough to go ahead and take SSRI's, your going to block the reuptake, then your body's equilibrium is going to transmit more serotonin (this is why initially people with depression get a mood elevation after the first day of treatment), leading to further depletion of Serotonin...

thats my 2cents.
 
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^ lol.. taking an SRI post MDMA roll will not last long enough to cause ED or to alter gene expression. we are talking taking 1 ssri post roll, not continuously.

Wow [name redacted], I thought you would be older than that. You have done really well for yourself, you have a good scientific mind. Do you mind telling me how old you were when you first started taking drugs?
 
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permastoned said:
Wow [redacted], I thought you would be older than that. You have done really well for yourself, you have a good scientific mind. Do you mind telling me how old you were when you first started taking drugs?
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Why don't you tickle his balls while your sucking his dick geez 8)
 
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rocknroll714 said:
Cat's claw is simply useless as an MAOI, sorry; but it is good as an antioxidant due to its flavonoid content.



I must have missed that. Nonetheless, including an agent that exacerbates neurotoxicity in a "harm reduction" thread is totally out of line if you ask me.



It's "hydroxylase", and MDMA doesn't fully inactive it by any means. L-Tryptophan is still effective for boosting MDMA levels. Seeing as how MDMA lowers its levels fully via oxidative stress (to my knowledge), if you use other neuroprotectives, it may not even end up being inhibited at all. Also, I hear L-tryptophan has a significantly lower propensity to cause nausea and heart issues from peripheral 5-HT3 and 5-HT2B agonism, respectively, in comparison to 5-HTP. And it probably has a longer duration of action than 5-HTP as well.



Rasagiline doesn't metabolize to levo- amph/meth unlike selegiline, which is a major bonus. Selegiline from what I hear is highly anxiogenic due to this action. Rasagiline would be a better option any day if you ask me. As for pargyline, inclusion my friend. What if someone happens to be taking pargyline for whatever reason and they want to roll? Score for them.



An acute dose of an SRI isn't going to cause permanent anything. Also, the concept is to take the SRI after the roll, not before.



SRIs are perfectly safe as harm protection and in my opinion although I'd say they're probably right about on par in efficacy in comparison to MAO-B inhibitors, I'd imagine they'd be somewhat safer.

As for the thing about flaming you just noted, that was unnecessary. This is essentially a debate. There's no need to go attacking one other like that. I'm simply pointing out the flaws in your thread because apparently nobody here has done so yet and somebody really needed to if you ask me. Honestly I think the entire thing ought to be rewritten.
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I was planning to rewrite it sometime in the 1 month end of semester break
Yes i agree with you, it does look messy but none of the information is wrong.

But, when i was younger i thought the same as you, i did plenty of research on SSRI's and came to the conclusion that it would be good to take as a once of dose post-MDMA, then i posted a thread either here or drugs-forum about what i thought about its use post MDMA, back then i was pretty much inagreement with what you said.. Then i got conquered by flames and probably over 10 website and study links that contradicts the use of SSRI's for a single time for what ever the reason.

Infact after the first day (when you actually feel good on SSRI's) you begin to feel pretty damn depressed, like so when you have a big night out after a rave due to serious receptor down regulation (until the body's equilibrium adapts which take weeks)

Either way after my "new" findings i went along and did more research and i realised i was down right wrong and that SSRI's were pretty dangerous and useless for any sort of harm reduction when you can simply just take Alpha Liopic acid and be on little jolly trip on a good roll.

Although i don't mean the flaming hence why i edited the post before you replied to it. it sure is a debate but i don't think neither of us is wrong but you did pretty much tackle my thread to the ground and called it incorrect with no proof.
 
permastoned said:
.. Rofl.. as if you can be fucked making a new account just to pay someone out.. get worked up more man. Take a chill pill.

And yes, I do admire rocknroll and have from the start.. what's ur point? I'd love to tickle his balls in person.
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what the fuck, thats not even me, i have better shit to do then make an account.
plus it says that was made in Nov 2007
 
permastoned said:
Lol maybe u made a few and kept them up ur sleeve for instances like these. Bahaha.

It is illogical that you are willing to take MDMA advanced, which is not only an SRI but also a releaser.. yet u refuse to take solely and SRI. Hmm.. someone call the logic police!
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That's just fucking stupid....
What recreational value does SSRI have?
On the plus of things, i dont take MDMA anymore, i pretty much stopped when i had a spirital encounter on a high dose LSD and mushrooms and realised their was more to life the going to raves and doing pills, Then i applied for university and doing pretty damn well for my self in the Bachelor Of science(chemistry and biological science)
 
I'm not advanc3d...my name is Nick (he's a different person than me SERIOUSLY why didnt you believe me before?)

I joined ages ago just never posted, i was trolling around and stumbled into this banter war thread.

rocknroll to be honest with you, i would stop saying so much information about what you have just read from different texts and studies. Until you conduct the studies yourself under a supervised team of professors at a university or laboratory or have been working in the field of MDMA and other chemical substances for a substantial time (for a longer period of time than your 1 year personal experience of drugs) to make claims like these.

By saying things such as "probably" & "in my opinion", you are not providing a strong enough thesis to say all the information that you are providing is correct.

Now you should answer that statement by saying "I’m not saying im 100% correct, im just saying what information i have read and putting it into context". Which is true.

But how do you know all of the information you have researched/read/learnt is correct? Have you done clinical studies about this YOURSELF? Tested the chemical reactions yourself? Yes you are quoting from other professors/doctors/etc i know that, but so is advanc3d (he is at uni currently studying under this field so you would think he would have access to some information you may not be able to get)

So I wouldn’t be so quick to jump down advanc3d throat, he has said information that people may find interesting and you also have done the same. Both have their flaws and both have their valid opinions and leave it at that.
 
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Advanc3d said:
That's just fucking stupid....
What recreational value does SSRI have?
On the plus of things, i dont take MDMA anymore, i pretty much stopped when i had a spirital encounter on a high dose LSD and mushrooms and realised their was more to life the going to raves and doing pills, Then i applied for university and doing pretty damn well for my self in the Bachelor Of science(chemistry and biological science)
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he cracks me up too.. I wasn't saying SRIs have recreational value. I was saying that the same things that you said about SSRIs apply to MDMA, by a much greater magnitude due to its extreme ability to release 5ht. Therefore it is illogical to suggest taking one but not the other, when the other is far less harmful. By the way, stop speaking like an asian.
 
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