Biologically inert gases with optimal recreational potential

[seep]

Just so we're on the same page: any breathable gas is narcotizing to a predictable extent. Potency is linearly logarithmically proportional to lipophilicity. Graphically:

I am wishing to compile a list of biologically inert gases whose lipophilicities fall between 1 and 100 on that plot (i.e. between nitrous and ether, which are 10 and 1000 100 and 10000 times as potent as air, resp.

Again, the desired gases must be inert in vivo (i.e. they undergo no chemical or enzymatic transformations in the body and are excreted unmetabolized).

nb: the graph is an anesthesiologist tool from the 19th century; many of the gases or volatiles there are definitely not inert.

Thanks

 

[atara]

Radon!

 

[MurphyClox]

^Seep should have included radioactive gases in his "not-desirable" list.

Were was the graphic taken from? Or did you create it yourself?


- Murphy

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

I would knock halothane off the list then, it is metabolised some, and indeed, is fairly undesirable for its habit of causing kidney damage or hepatic necrosis.

And cyclopropane to a degree, sensitizes the heart to catecholamines, like butane huffing, although given it was used as a clinical anaesthetic at one point, I doubt it is quite so toxic, still, wouldn't catch me huffing any.

Chloroform too, is known to be a likely carcinogen, methylene chloride is certainly so, although anecdotally, it is quite narcotizing, to say the least, if breathed in too much, did that a few times as a kid before I knew any better, and it was certainly fairly potent, much more so than ethyl ether, interesting, since according to that chart, chloroform is a less potent anaesthetic than ether.

 

[atara]

Okay, seriously then. Methyl propyl ether.

Incidentally, what about hydrogen?

Chloroform too, is known to be a likely carcinogen, methylene chloride is certainly so, although anecdotally, it is quite narcotizing, to say the least, if breathed in too much, did that a few times as a kid before I knew any better, and it was certainly fairly potent, much more so than ethyl ether, interesting, since according to that chart, chloroform is a less potent anaesthetic than ether.

You're reading the chart wrong; it clearly indicates chloroform as being more potent than ether.

Also methoxyflurane causes kidney damage. Bad news bears.

 

[seep]

I'm sorry I confused some people. The graph just lists a few gases and volatiles that have a history of use as anaesthetics. I'll add a note there to clear that up. The graph is from wiki page on theories of general anaesthetic action.

It's sufficient that a gas or volatile has been assayed in vivo; it need not have history of medical or recreation use.

Yeah the negative slope is deceptive too. Potency increases down the y axis.

Oh, elemental hydrogen is definitely intoxicating. I haven't looked up at what dose but since with breathable gases, potency is a function of lipophilicity, its octanol-water partition coefficient should be a good indicator (unless you can find its olive oil--gas coefficient).

More information on wiki's article on nitrogen narcosis.

(for the record: don't try to get high scuba diving: just don't)

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Isofluorane, sevofluorane or desfluorane are the most usually used volatile fluorinated inhalational anaesthetics now aren't they, at least as far as safety profiles go?

What is the source for the data on that chart, in terms of the data for relative potency? there is something odd about it...I have had isofluorane used on me, and within a few deep breaths I was out cold, if I was reading the chart the wrong way round, that still puts ether quite a bit ahead, I have inhaled and drunk enough of the stuff, and that just isn't the case, I have never actually knocked myself out with ether, even having rigged up a vaporiser to speed up evaporation and concentrate the rising vapor for inhalation, dissociation in metric fucktons, but never even close to actually losing consciousness.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Hmm, are you sure about H2? its of a similar size to helium, which is close to a noble gas in chemistry terms, and size, well not far off), has anybody actually tried inhaling it? worth testing out a balloon or two full, in a similar to nitrous, I wonder?

 

[stormyweathers]

^what do you know about ether metabolism?

 

[seep]

Looked up H2: it's oil to air ratio is 1:20 so half as potent as air so bad bad bad bad considering air doesn't become fun unless you're at 4 atmospheres (30 meters).

 

[MurphyClox]

Methylene chloride, a.k.a. dichloromethane, hurts heavily when inhaled. I can not recommend it in any way (apart from the already mentioned carcinogenicn potential, of course). I had once - accidentally! - a deep breath of a saturated DCM-atmosphere and goddamnit, my lungs were hurting for half an hour.

- Murphy

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

When I tried it, I experienced no respiratory irritation, which looking back, surprises me.

At the time, I think I was very early teens, and I just poured a little into a bottle, and stuck my nose over the top, and breathed in through that.

Certainly ill advised, and not to be repeated, but no soreness was noticed.

 

[MurphyClox]

I guess in my case it was due to the high concentration ("...saturated atmosphere..."), too. Nonetheless, it was alarming!

Be careful!

- Murphy

 

[NackusBaur]

(for the record: don't try to get high scuba diving: just don't)

My second dive after getting certified, the dive master took us down 130 feet (no decompression diving limit) to this incredible wall off Columbia Reef in Cozumel.

We were only at the max depth for like 4 minutes, but I definitely got narked. I would have just happily floated there grinning at the towers of coral and the fish until my expiration. The dive master had to poke me several times...

The funny thing with nitrogen narcosis is that it dissipates as quickly as it comes. You ascend 5 meters and then are completely back in reality.

 

[wungchow]

ethyl vinyl ether and divinyl ether were also used in medicine at one point.

 

[seep]

The funny thing with nitrogen narcosis is that it dissipates as quickly as it comes. You ascend 5 meters and then are completely back in reality.

At 40 meters it's both the oxygen and nitrogen that do that (see below). But the rapid offset plus the supposed absence of tolerance really appeal to me.

And when you think about it, a proper shotgun hit, or a long airtight kiss, both have a certain kick to them that's more than just the weed or the passion. There's a good amount of CO2 breathed in in each situation...

My second dive after getting certified, the dive master took us down 130 feet (no decompression diving limit) to this incredible wall off Columbia Reef in Cozumel.

We were only at the max depth for like 4 minutes, but I definitely got narked. I would have just happily floated there grinning at the towers of coral and the fish until my expiration. The dive master had to poke me several times...

That's real interesting: I've never been scuba diving and I had assumed you'd need to decompress even after very shallow dives.

So 130 feet = 40 meters. So the amount of gas you breathe at 40 meters (5 atm pressure) is 25% more than what you breathe at 30 meters and 500% more than what you breathe at sea level.

And oh yeah, at that depth it's really both major portions of air (O2 and N2) that exert the effect. Partial pressure of O2 at sea level is 137 160 mmHg but we can only access about 115 150 mmHg because of moisture, so normal metabolism only requires the corresponding mass of oxygen per breath. (Is the leftover O2 would be excreted?) Anyway I'm just saying that at 40 meters you breathe in more than 5 times the amount of oxygen you'd normally breathe in, so the effect is not just due to nitrogen.

 

[DMTime_warp]

Iv'e gotten a buzz of helium several times before in between nitrous and hyperventilating effects wise when i was younger. The helium voice trick is a great excuse to keep inhaling the stuff...

 

[indelibleface]

Iv'e gotten a buzz of helium several times before in between nitrous and hyperventilating effects wise when i was younger. The helium voice trick is a great excuse to keep inhaling the stuff...

I'm assuming whatever narcosis you apparently got from helium has to be disorientation from lack of oxygen, and not from direct anesthetic effect a la nitrous oxide. Would it only become intoxicating at higher pressures? You would likely asphyxiate before you could achieve a dose that would intoxicate you; I would think the same would go for hydrogen.

Apparently, breathing a mixture of helium and oxygen at certain pressures causes High Pressure Nervous Syndrome, which can lead to generalized CNS overstimulation.

 

[MurphyClox]

I see krypton and xenon in that figure. What about argon?

And in this context: Is it true that exhaling heavy gases like argon is more difficult to the extend that this facilitates suffocation? Or is this more a 'scientific legend'? I always thought that the circulation of the air inflicted by simple movement of the lungs should be enough to exhale it within some breaths. Not?


- Murphy

 

[vecktor]

^ argon has been used in emergency situations with saturation divers in the North Sea, obviously as a mixture with oxygen, it apparently is a rather strange experience like breathing on a very humid day like breathing soup.

Sulfur Hexafluoride 60/40 oxygen mix has been inhaled by some people in the past for the novel experience any less than 60/40 blood and oxygenation falls badly, I guess due to reduced diffusion.

xenon is the only inert gas worth playing with.

I can't think of any other biologically inert gases other than some of the fluorocarbons perhaps these tend to cause cardiac sensitization.

hydrogen is just a bad idea, explosive mixes between 4 and 75% and easy ignition, I think one of the old chemists/baloonists died in France a hundred years ago from ignition of inhaled hydrogen. rapid expansion of hydrogen from a cylinder valve into air is often enough to ignite it.

pure oxygen at sea level pressure can also be a problem, when oxygen prebreathing is done for high altitude flying it should only be done for 1/2hr any longer than that obvious toxic effects appear, unpressurized cockpits in higher performance jets can easily cause the bends prebreathing pure O2 gets rid of one problem but causes another. Oxygen toxicity is clearly related to pressure and time anything over 0.3bar is toxic, I am pretty sure oxic oxygen appear before toxic nitrogen effects with compressed air diving.

CO2 oxygen mixture is also supposed to be interesting I think there are some erowid reports on it, of course CO2 is not inert.