God bless you, @JackARoe
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Bible verse of the day!! Get your daily study on.
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Matthew 8:1-4
When He came down from the mountain, great crowds followed Him;
and behold, a leper came to Him and knelt before Him, saying, "Lord, if you will, you can make me clean."
And he stretched out his hand and touched Him, saying, "I will; be clean." And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
And Jesus said to him, "See that you say nothing to any one; but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a proof to the people."
When He came down from the mountain, great crowds followed Him;
and behold, a leper came to Him and knelt before Him, saying, "Lord, if you will, you can make me clean."
And he stretched out his hand and touched Him, saying, "I will; be clean." And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
And Jesus said to him, "See that you say nothing to any one; but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a proof to the people."
smokeymcpot42088
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I have a question for those of you familiar with the bible and history.
Do you believe that Josephus forged the passage in Antiquities (speaking of jesus, or christo)?
I read that most scholars do believe it was a forgery and than someone vehemently disagreed. Problem is he told me to find the references; which reside in ancient texts which are not easy to find; always in english; and of course hard to interpret. (I never got to interpret though).
Sorry for the lack of a bible verse I could grab one if you really care lol
Do you believe that Josephus forged the passage in Antiquities (speaking of jesus, or christo)?
I read that most scholars do believe it was a forgery and than someone vehemently disagreed. Problem is he told me to find the references; which reside in ancient texts which are not easy to find; always in english; and of course hard to interpret. (I never got to interpret though).
Sorry for the lack of a bible verse I could grab one if you really care lol
Antiquities is a secular book, written as a history of the people of Israel and is considered outside both the Bible and the Torah written from the perspective of a non-Christian Jewish historian for Roman readers. It is written in Greek, not Hebrew or Aramaic . The fact t It is most definitely not part of the actual Bible and is more of a historic reference from the perspective of the non-Christian Jew, like those who did not accept Jesus as the Messiah at the time of Christ; and Orthodox Jews to this day maintain the same general perspective.
I don't think anyone really knows if these were forgeries or not.
I don't think anyone really knows if these were forgeries or not.
Mattew 8:18-22
When Jesus saw a crowd around him,
he gave orders to cross to the other shore.
A scribe approached and said to him,
"Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go."
Jesus answered him, "Foxes have dens and birds of the sky have nests,
but the Son of Man has nowhere to rest his head."
Another of his disciples said to him,
"Lord, let me go first and bury my father."
But Jesus answered him, "Follow me,
and let the dead bury their dead."
Matthew 8:23-27
Then He got into the boat followed by His disciples.
Suddenly a storm broke over the lake, so violent that the boat was being swamped by the waves. But He was asleep.
So they went to Him and woke Him saying, 'Save us, Lord, we are lost!'
And He said to them, 'Why are you so frightened, you who have so little faith?' And then He stood up and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
They were astounded and said, 'Whatever kind of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?'
John 20:24-29
Thomas, called the Twin, who was one of the Twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
So the other disciples said to him, 'We have seen the Lord,' but he answered, 'Unless I can see the holes that the nails made in His hands and can put my finger into the holes they made, and unless I can put my hand into His side, I refuse to believe.'
Eight days later the disciples were in the house again and Thomas was with them. The doors were closed, but Jesus came in and stood among them. 'Peace be with you,' He said.
Then He spoke to Thomas, 'Put your finger here; look, here are My hands. Give Me your hand; put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving any more but believe.'
Thomas replied, 'My Lord and my God!'
Jesus said to him: You believe because you can see Me. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.
Thomas, called the Twin, who was one of the Twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
So the other disciples said to him, 'We have seen the Lord,' but he answered, 'Unless I can see the holes that the nails made in His hands and can put my finger into the holes they made, and unless I can put my hand into His side, I refuse to believe.'
Eight days later the disciples were in the house again and Thomas was with them. The doors were closed, but Jesus came in and stood among them. 'Peace be with you,' He said.
Then He spoke to Thomas, 'Put your finger here; look, here are My hands. Give Me your hand; put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving any more but believe.'
Thomas replied, 'My Lord and my God!'
Jesus said to him: You believe because you can see Me. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.
smokeymcpot42088
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I am no historiam or theologist (sp/rightword?) But I did (sleep at a best westrn srry had too) have a very in depth back and forth with some 'historians' and bliblical whathaveyou's.
Now let me preface this by saying I consider myself catholic. (obviously not the best catholic, but I work on do unto others.. thats #1)
But the challenge I put forth was 20 dollars if anyone could prove (preponderance of evidence) that Jesus Christ ever existed. Human, Son of God or otherwise. (That challenge doesn't apply here you guys are a bit smarter than the group I was in, IMHO)...
As you mention Antiquities is a secular book. (straight history no mythos).
The argument they presented was that Jesus was first mentioned in Antiquities book 18 and 20. (around 100 AD).
This is disputed however and wikipedia says that most modern scholars have decided that this mention is most likely a forgery....I find this an over simplification and the truth is shrouded in documents I can hardly interpret if I do speak the language..
Here is a related article. www.forerunner.com/blog/is-josephus-passage-about-jesus-a-forgery
Absolutely...
I don't require "proof"either;
Yet still one way or another there is no way to tell if it is a forgery or not. I don't even give such things much weight in my real belief system. It was just a factual response to the OP.
Look up today's Gospel (actual liturgy). It is the story of Thomas the Apostle and Christ's appearances after the Resurrection (quite appropriately).
Faith is belief when there is no proof, all else is just belief.
smokeymcpot42088
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Aye, can't be a christian without faith.
I also don't put much weight in such things. From what I have read I do believe that it was probably a forgery (not the right word) but misconstrued/interpreted to fit the 'narrative' so to speak. (a few lines inserted, changed, etc).
Lol I know that if I am under oath of a king james bible the whole situation is laughable though.
I also don't put much weight in such things. From what I have read I do believe that it was probably a forgery (not the right word) but misconstrued/interpreted to fit the 'narrative' so to speak. (a few lines inserted, changed, etc).
Lol I know that if I am under oath of a king james bible the whole situation is laughable though.
Matthew 9:1-8
He got back in the boat, crossed the water and came to His home town.
And suddenly some people brought Him a paralytic stretched out on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, 'Take comfort, my child, your sins are forgiven.'
And now some scribes said to themselves, 'This man is being blasphemous.'
Knowing what was in their minds Jesus said, 'Why do you have such wicked thoughts in your hearts?
Now, which of these is easier: to say, "Your sins are forgiven," or to say, "Get up and walk"?
But to prove to you that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins He said to the paralytic-'get up, pick up your bed and go home.'
And the man got up and went home.
A feeling of awe came over the crowd when they saw this, and they praised God for having given such authority to human beings.
He got back in the boat, crossed the water and came to His home town.
And suddenly some people brought Him a paralytic stretched out on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, 'Take comfort, my child, your sins are forgiven.'
And now some scribes said to themselves, 'This man is being blasphemous.'
Knowing what was in their minds Jesus said, 'Why do you have such wicked thoughts in your hearts?
Now, which of these is easier: to say, "Your sins are forgiven," or to say, "Get up and walk"?
But to prove to you that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins He said to the paralytic-'get up, pick up your bed and go home.'
And the man got up and went home.
A feeling of awe came over the crowd when they saw this, and they praised God for having given such authority to human beings.
Matthew 9:9-13
As Jesus was walking on from there He saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax office, and He said to him, 'Come follow Me.' And he got up and followed Him.Now while He was at table in the house it happened that a number of tax collectors and sinners came to sit at the table with Jesus and His disciples.
When the Pharisees saw this, they said to His disciples, 'Why does your master eat with tax collectors and sinners?'
When He heard this He replied, 'It is not the healthy who need the doctor, but the sick.
Go and learn the meaning of the words: Mercy is what pleases Me, not sacrifice. And indeed I came to call not the upright, but sinners.'
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Love this one. Can calm the waves on the inner emotions too. Faith is big.
"For truly I tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you." (Matthew 17:20-21).
Galatians 4:4-7
But when the completion of the time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born a subject of the Law,
to redeem the subjects of the Law, so that we could receive adoption as sons.
As you are sons, God has sent into our hearts the Spirit of his Son crying, 'Abba, Father';
and so you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir, by God's own act.
But when the completion of the time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born a subject of the Law,
to redeem the subjects of the Law, so that we could receive adoption as sons.
As you are sons, God has sent into our hearts the Spirit of his Son crying, 'Abba, Father';
and so you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir, by God's own act.
Mark 6:1-6
Leaving that district, He went to His home town, and His disciples accompanied Him.
With the coming of the Sabbath He began teaching in the synagogue, and most of them were astonished when they heard Him. They said, 'Where did this man get all this? What is this wisdom that has been granted Him, and these miracles that are worked through Him?
This is the carpenter, surely, the son of Mary, the brother of James and Joset and Jude and Simon? His sisters, too, are they not here with us?' And they would not accept Him.
And Jesus said to them, 'A prophet is despised only in his own country, among his own relations and in his own house';
and He could work no miracle there, except that He cured a few sick people by laying His hands on them.
He was amazed at their lack of faith.
Leaving that district, He went to His home town, and His disciples accompanied Him.
With the coming of the Sabbath He began teaching in the synagogue, and most of them were astonished when they heard Him. They said, 'Where did this man get all this? What is this wisdom that has been granted Him, and these miracles that are worked through Him?
This is the carpenter, surely, the son of Mary, the brother of James and Joset and Jude and Simon? His sisters, too, are they not here with us?' And they would not accept Him.
And Jesus said to them, 'A prophet is despised only in his own country, among his own relations and in his own house';
and He could work no miracle there, except that He cured a few sick people by laying His hands on them.
He was amazed at their lack of faith.
Matthew 9:32-38
They had only just left when suddenly a man was brought to Him, a dumb demoniac.
And when the devil was driven out, the dumb man spoke and the people were amazed and said, 'Nothing like this has ever been seen in Israel.'
But the Pharisees said, 'It is through the prince of devils that He drives out devils.'
Jesus made a tour through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and curing all kinds of disease and all kinds of illness.
And when He saw the crowds He felt sorry for them because they were harassed and dejected, like sheep without a shepherd.
Then He said to his disciples, 'The harvest is rich but the laborers are few, so ask the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers to His harvest.'
They had only just left when suddenly a man was brought to Him, a dumb demoniac.
And when the devil was driven out, the dumb man spoke and the people were amazed and said, 'Nothing like this has ever been seen in Israel.'
But the Pharisees said, 'It is through the prince of devils that He drives out devils.'
Jesus made a tour through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and curing all kinds of disease and all kinds of illness.
And when He saw the crowds He felt sorry for them because they were harassed and dejected, like sheep without a shepherd.
Then He said to his disciples, 'The harvest is rich but the laborers are few, so ask the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers to His harvest.'
Matthew 10:1-7
He summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits with power to drive them out and to cure all kinds of disease and all kinds of illness.
These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon who is known as Peter, and his brother Andrew; James the son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who was also his betrayer.
These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them as follows: 'Do not make your way to gentile territory, and do not enter any Samaritan town;
go instead to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
And as you go, proclaim that the kingdom of Heaven is close at hand.
He summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits with power to drive them out and to cure all kinds of disease and all kinds of illness.
These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon who is known as Peter, and his brother Andrew; James the son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who was also his betrayer.
These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them as follows: 'Do not make your way to gentile territory, and do not enter any Samaritan town;
go instead to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
And as you go, proclaim that the kingdom of Heaven is close at hand.
Matthew 10:7-15
And as you go, proclaim that the kingdom of Heaven is close at hand.
Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those suffering from virulent skin-diseases, drive out devils. You received without charge, give without charge.
Provide yourselves with no gold or silver, not even with coppers for your purses,
with no haversack for the journey or spare tunic or footwear or a staff, for the laborer deserves his keep.
'Whatever town or village you go into, seek out someone worthy and stay with him until you leave.
As you enter his house, salute it,
and if the house deserves it, may your peace come upon it; if it does not, may your peace come back to you.
And if anyone does not welcome you or listen to what you have to say, as you walk out of the house or town shake the dust from your feet.
In truth I tell you, on the Day of Judgement it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.
And as you go, proclaim that the kingdom of Heaven is close at hand.
Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those suffering from virulent skin-diseases, drive out devils. You received without charge, give without charge.
Provide yourselves with no gold or silver, not even with coppers for your purses,
with no haversack for the journey or spare tunic or footwear or a staff, for the laborer deserves his keep.
'Whatever town or village you go into, seek out someone worthy and stay with him until you leave.
As you enter his house, salute it,
and if the house deserves it, may your peace come upon it; if it does not, may your peace come back to you.
And if anyone does not welcome you or listen to what you have to say, as you walk out of the house or town shake the dust from your feet.
In truth I tell you, on the Day of Judgement it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.
Matthew 10:16-23
Look, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; so be cunning as snakes and yet innocent as doves.Be prepared for people to hand you over to Sanhedrins and scourge you in their synagogues.
You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as evidence to them and to the gentiles.
But when you are handed over, do not worry about how to speak or what to say; what you are to say will be given to you when the time comes,
because it is not you who will be speaking; the Spirit of your Father will be speaking in you.
Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will come forward against their parents and have them put to death.
You will be universally hated on account of my name; but anyone who stands firm to the end will be saved.
If they persecute you in one town, take refuge in the next; and if they persecute you in that, take refuge in another.
In truth I tell you, you will not have gone the round of the towns of Israel before the Son of man comes.