Misc Beta-blocker and tryptamine contraindication?

[InfoTed]

Hi folks, long time lurker/devourer of information on these boards.
First time poster, search did not yield the information I'm after.
Hope this is the right board to post on.

A foaf of mine is wondering about the theoretical potential side effects of combining a beta-blocker, such as propranolol, with a tryptamine such as psilocybin.

My foaf is on 10mg propranolol for heart arrhytmias and POTS and finds this dose to be quite affecting.
It has significantly prevented tachycardia, but a few days in began to yield typical low blood pressure symptoms in the individual, wooziness, subdued heartbeat.
Foaf halved dose and will consult with doc on next visit.

Being a non-selective beta-blocker, wiki-page says propranolol MAY have significant interactions with the serotonergic system, though chiefly used as a nor-/epinephrine blocker.
Ergot alkaloids are listed as an interacting compound.

Is it to be presumed this includes psilocybine-esque compounds as well?

Does this interaction involve potentiation of tryptamines in the same way as a MAO-i?

Foaf is not interested in potentiation, but is concerned about physiological and psychological interactions should they decide to pursue psilocybine usage while using 5-10mg of propranolol.
If potentiation were the interaction involved, how significant would it be for very humble, small doses of psilocybine.
Are the hypotensive effects of the beta-blocker likely to increase?

It would be sound advice to avoid the prospect altogether, however my friend is very adamant about maintaining their fungal relations, he says it has been farrr too long since his last inspiring journey.
(Also, it seems an important harm reduction point to have established between these two fairly commonly used compounds)

My foaf has established no intention of trying anything without sound understanding of the interaction and would prefer not to ask his doctor about it.

Pre-emptive thanks and respect to the quality of education that can be found amidst the bluelight boards.


Addendum: Wiki for psilocybine seems to suggest that psilocin (metabolite) tends to have affinity for serotonin receptors OTHER than 5HTP-1B (which wiki says propranolol MAY affect). It seems unlikely for serotonin potentiation, however, I think I'd trust an anecdotal account over the hazy information available on wiki.

Edit#2: Google searching bluelight revealed several topics, only a couple of anecdotal accounts for LSD and mushroom use with beta-blockers, generally for anxiety-sufferers or used as a calmitive against the intensity of a trip. Does not answer my concerns of physiological potentiation of either substance.

 

[InfoTed]

My friend of a friend would like to leave a reply, for anyone suffering the same, googling beta blockers + mushrooms or searching thru bluelight for it, as I did, for the best evidence available on unusual, untested drug combinations.

40mg propranolol and 10mg of florinef / day for POTS did not interfere with a number of medium intensity mushroom trips (lets say about 7 cubensis' 4cmx2cm deep caps for reference).
FOAF was stupid enough to pour alcohol cannabis and tobacco into the mix but with no problems to report.

No problems except coming back down to reality where you are not a superpowered overmind, but a physically degenerate spiritually-muted runt with real and present responsibilities and problems.

It seemed to my FOAF as though the beta-blockers MAY have even helped limit the pre-breakthrough anxiety/tachycardia that often accompanies the start of a trip. Then again, meditation, self-distraction and reefers are pretty good for it too or so I hear. :D

Good luck, physically ill trippers - try not to be anxious about this particular interaction at this scale, as always, your mileage may vary and you should consult with a doctor whose knowledge you trust (if such a being exists).

 

[brutus]

^ No need to say friend of a friend, it offers no legal protection and we just use the word I here.

I have taken 2C-I while being on a beta blocker and noticed no side effects. But then again, it's not like I was hooked up to an EKG monitor while tripping so it's impossible to say whether or not the combination is safe.

 

[InfoTed]

True, but where there is zero scientific evidence and even pharmacological reasons to be wary about certain combos...
It would have been nice to have had this anecdotal report before FOAF decided to try and just hope for the best.
Beta-blockers have appeared to be used safely in high doses with many drugs (from what I've seen on bluelight).
Florinef increases bloodpressure significantly, headaches if taken without the beta-blocker.
The combination of the two balances out heartrate and bloodpressure, though my POTS condition throws out my cardiac rhythm regularly.
Propranolol, a beta-blocker which crosses the BBB has a slight affinity for one serotonin receptor (which often gives vivid dreams/nightmares) whilst psilocybin has a strong affinity for the OTHER serotonin receptor.
In a nutshell, potentiation wasn't a problem, not at these doses anyways.

Anecdotal evidence can add up to be as good as gold - I think BL is testament to that with all it's peer-reviewed anecdotal evidence and garage-science. *respect*
(also, I don't need an ECG to tell me how my HR, BP and arrhythmias are doing - you develop a waking awareness of problematic body systems, bit harder to tell whilst tryptamining though I suppose)

But what if it really was a FOAF and not me? I'm nervous about posting anything potentially incriminating (and what isn't these days!) and use other computers and accounts to post sensitive info online, why wouldn't my FOAF do the same.
I thought there would be different consequences between admitting to something and speaking anecdotally or 3rd person...
I don't expect it holds much legal clout, but it would certainly be hard to prove that someone's fiction *actually* relates directly to their experience.

Also, thanks.

 

[RobotRipping]

if it's really a FOAF then fine but most times it's not. The thing is it doesn't protect you anyway, if we can tell it's you, don't you think everyone else could?

it's clearly coming from your computer at your residence at a certain time. If LEO really wanted to track you down they could but i'm sure they don't give two shits about what you post here.

the only thing to watch out for with beta blockers are stimulants. i'm not sure if any 5ht2a psychs play with the adrenergic receptors but if they do, i'd have a look into it.